Superb magazine article about rugby league

[Martyn Sadler]

7 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

There is definite regret within the League hierarchy that we never put another team in another team in Brisbane to tighten our grip on that city. Derby`s are now shown to strengthen a code if a region can support it.

Kiwi above whom you quoted reckons that a NZ RL Premiership win would be absolutely massive for the game over there and on the evidence I saw when they made the GF you would have to agree. You could not turn around without bumping into people doing the Haka.

Can`t wait for the day above comes true with a team in Perth and another team in Melbourne.

I would like to see a 20-team NRL competition with new clubs in SE Queensland, Perth, Adelaide and Christchurch.

At the moment the AFL can boast a national competition because it has clubs in all the major Australian states. The NRL could beat that by extending to those cities to become a truly ANZAC competition.

[The Rocket]

40 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

I would like to see a 20-team NRL competition with new clubs in SE Queensland, Perth, Adelaide and Christchurch.

At the moment the AFL can boast a national competition because it has clubs in all the major Australian states. The NRL could beat that by extending to those cities to become a truly ANZAC competition.

It`s funny that the afl like to boast of this National competition when in reality the only difference is W.A. and S.A. and we have a team in Canberra and New Zealand, they don`t. Despite that, those two extra states are a significant advantage in marketing and sponsorship.

I agree with the 20 teams and perhaps the concept of two conferences, play each other twice and a Super Bowl type scenario every year.

A shortened season would then leave a permanent window for Internationals every year plus the added advantage of maybe reducing wear and tear on players. A shorter more intense season where every game counts.

Of course there are plenty of issues that would still have to be sorted in the above scenario.

 

 

[unapologetic pedant]

Obviously the 20 team competition that ran in 1995 was derailed some way into the season by the Murdoch intervention. But in the period before the news broke I`m afraid I recall a lot of negativity towards the expansion clubs, particularly the Western Reds. Every time they lost a game they were labelled duds on and off the pitch. Their games in Sydney attracted little enthusiasm or crowd support.

Also with a bigger competition that`s more teams whose seasons will be written off by the media if it looks like they won`t make the finals. More teams whose games the media will effectively tell people aren`t worth going to or watching. To pre-empt this the NRL might go for a 10 or even 12 team finals series, devaluing the regular season.

The NRL media`s relentless puffing up of the All Blacks and NZRU, and the consequent undermining of NZ League, wouldn`t bode well for a second NZ franchise.

Overall, for expansion to be successful there would have to be a more positive attitude towards it and the game of Rugby League in general from the NRL media and the fans they influence.

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I subscribe to two papers Irish, The Sydney Morning Herald, a N.S.W. paper and a bit leftie and The Australian, a national paper that is far more conservative, the different take they have on the same topic is often pretty stark but interesting. The Herald has good League coverage but can be a bit iffy ( especially that ejit fsimons and webster) but the OZ for a national paper has an excellent coverage, Brent Reid Is very good and they are always fair.

Anyway what I was getting to was that my posts were banned from both, the Herald for giving it to fsimons and webster and the OZ because I think I agreed a littlie too enthusiastically with an article on Israeli interference in our foreign policy. But that`s another matter. It doesn`t stop me from sending in posts though because I figure that the writers are probably just as interested in the critical posts as well as the ones that tell them how clever they are. Don`t get me wrong Irish I`m not some lunatic trolling these blokes I do try to be constructive and point out the error of their ways. 

Good news last night though the Herald accepted a post I made in response to an article on Adam Reynolds, I went to type in `Little Champion` when I saw  the post before me said ` Champion Little player ` I posted anyway because it`s true and deserved repeating. The article said only  two players had kicked their team to victory in the last 5 minutes of a game with either field goals or penalty goals 12 times: Cam Smith and Johnathon Thurston, Reynolds was next on 10 times, including 6 field goals and Cherry-Evans was next on 9. Not a bad list and not a bad stat. The post on The OZ was a sly dig at the afl which snuck past the keeper.

I saw you taking part in the big farewell to Kayakman and didn`t send this post but I noticed he was back today, he wasn`t gone long, he seems like a nice fella.

The above stat was between 1998-2020, still pretty good.

 

 

Is your second paragraph revealing why we now have the pleasure of your company? - because you`ve been banned from everywhere else.

Seriously, I applaud all your efforts to try to get better quality coverage for RL by holding the media muppets to account. I`ve seen the Webster bloke in Channel Nine discussions - not the sharpest tool in the box.

A while back over here I heard someone ring an obnoxious local radio jock to raise the subject of the traducement and marginalisation of RL in the media. The jock started attacking the PTB, deriding the scrums, corporate governance, various other things. The caller immediately went defensive, conceding points too readily. In the end he pretty much agreed with the jock that RL deserved no better and apologised for bringing such a trivial, weak case to the table.

We can get easily gaslighted or fobbed off when we try to challenge the media.

 

 

[The Rocket]

20 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The NRL media`s relentless puffing up of the All Blacks and NZRU, and the consequent undermining of NZ League, wouldn`t bode well for a second NZ franchise.

 

As Kiwi 13 6 has said a Warriors GF win would " be absolutely massive" and as I have said from the reaction when they go well their crowds very quickly rise to the 20  000+ and when they last reached the GF the response was incredible. I don`t think NZ rugby would be threatened by another League franchise and two Kiwi teams would probably satisfy League HQ .

Little publicized fact about Warriors: have one of the highest social media fan engagement numbers of any sporting club in Australasia.

With regards 20 teams, two conferences would probably be essential. I suspect this is where afl is headed to compensate for lack of representative matches.

I did a bit of homework on the difference in TV viewing habits re:  Sydney, Melbourne  take a look.

[Martyn Sadler]

37 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The NRL media`s relentless puffing up of the All Blacks and NZRU, and the consequent undermining of NZ League, wouldn`t bode well for a second NZ franchise.

Overall, for expansion to be successful there would have to be a more positive attitude towards it and the game of Rugby League in general from the NRL media and the fans they influence.

I agree with you.

Sadly, Rugby League media people don't do their own sport any favours, particularly compared to the AFL media.

The same tendency is found in the attitude of Rugby League people in the UK to overseas teams, especially Toronto.

[The Rocket]

2 minutes ago, Martyn Sadler said:

Sadly, Rugby League media people don't do their own sport any favours, particularly compared to the AFL media.

The way the afl media tow the line is quite incredible, they openly speak about not deriding the game or product, as they often call it, in public. However interestingly when one journalist or coach , prominent player etc. does come out with something that is obviously an issue they really do tend to go all in, in paroxysms of self laceration and doom and gloom. Often leading the afl to make some ad hoc rule change on the run as we have seen this with regard `holding the ball` fiasco. Definitely not very healthy.

[unapologetic pedant]

15 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

As Kiwi 13 6 has said a Warriors GF win would " be absolutely massive" and as I have said from the reaction when they go well their crowds very quickly rise to the 20  000+ and when they last reached the GF the response was incredible. I don`t think NZ rugby would be threatened by another League franchise and two Kiwi teams would probably satisfy League HQ .

Little publicized fact about Warriors: have one of the highest social media fan engagement numbers of any sporting club in Australasia.

With regards 20 teams, two conferences would probably be essential. I suspect this is where afl is headed to compensate for lack of representative matches.

I did a bit of homework on the difference in TV viewing habits re:  Sydney, Melbourne  take a look.

If I were taking a punt on an eighteenth NRL franchise to add to a second Brisbane club it would be between Perth and Christchurch.

Comparing crowd support the two Sea-Eagles/Warriors games in Christchurch got about 18k the first year, down to 11k the following year, although there was a bigger one for a game against the Panthers a few years earlier. They would probably average out at similar to what the Western Reds settled into.

What tips the balance in favour of Christchurch is the continuing ability of Canterbury junior clubs to produce players of NRL standard, and potential NRL standard. A club with a perennial nucleus of local players would surely be more likely to hold public loyalty, particularly in tough times.

And to your point about catchment area and diaspora support, there`s little doubt that most people with the slightest affection for South Island RL would support the club in some way.

[DoubleD]

On 13/08/2020 at 14:32, unapologetic pedant said:

It`s baffling why AFL fans are so arrogant given their product is something more suited to a comedy channel than a sports channel.

This article confirms that the significant differentiating factor between AFL and NRL is that Aussie rules is played in elite schools in States where it dominates and thus enjoys all the concomitant advantages, whereas the equivalent NSW and QLD schools remain Union-only. Against this backdrop it is amazing, and a tribute to the inherent quality of RL, that the NRL manages to compete so well with AFL, particularly in its far superior Pay TV ratings.

In the UK Soccer has always been played in elite schools and so is in a similar position here to AFL in Vic, SA,WA. Imagine if instead there had been an elite version of Soccer, sufficiently different from popular Soccer, and a rival to it. That these two codes were culturally at odds. Would Soccer in the UK have transformed from a predominantly working-class game to achieve its current level of strength and popularity?

Soccer hasn't always been played in elite schools. For a long time it was looked down on and very much a minor sport. Elite schools had strict primary sports written into their calendar -

Sept-Dec: Yawnion

Jan-Apr: Field hockey

Apr-July: Cricket

 

[The Rocket]

On 16/08/2020 at 16:53, rlno1 said:

it's going to be tough because the market that left league moved to union and aussie rules, competitors that weren't a threat in the early 90's particularly the Swans and Lions. 20 years of having the games name dragged through the mud has taken it's toll.

I think your expression ` dragged through the mud `just about sums it up.

Super League war was one thing but the interminable scandals around our game have really taken a toll on its image. Both of the people who play it and the type of person who you are if you follow it. And hasn`t there been some bad ones. Probably for me the worse one that springs to mind and the most damaging was the Bulldogs and the `Bun` episode in Coffs Harbour all those years ago. And don`t they just occur as regular as clockwork after that. To be perfectly honest I feel like we are a little overdue. The Okinbal and Haweira- Nickua and Cody Walker kick boxing episode are fading and we need a little something to keep the pot boiling along. I wonder who?

Do you have any suggestions how we may turn this around. I thought that Robinson`s statement about Pangai Jr this week was promising," We don`t want people like him at our club ". My first reaction is to ban for life, and that the possibility of the loss of earning far more than they ever will else where may be a sufficient disincentive against bad behaviour. Any way, we will see how it goes.

 

 

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Soccer hasn't always been played in elite schools. For a long time it was looked down on and very much a minor sport. Elite schools had strict primary sports written into their calendar -

Sept-Dec: Yawnion

Jan-Apr: Field hockey

Apr-July: Cricket

 

I`m a bit hazy about the details of this but some of the private schools in QLD have recently, for the first time, included a term of League. Presumably this gradual approach was how Soccer made inroads and changed its image.

[Futtocks]

22 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I`m a bit hazy about the details of this but some of the private schools in QLD have recently, for the first time, included a term of League. Presumably this gradual approach was how Soccer made inroads and changed its image.

Parent/pupil power has seen a crumbling of the RU defences in some of these schools. There are plenty of hold-outs still, but the tide of history is not flowing in their direction.

[DoubleD]

2 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I`m a bit hazy about the details of this but some of the private schools in QLD have recently, for the first time, included a term of League. Presumably this gradual approach was how Soccer made inroads and changed its image.

 

1 hour ago, Futtocks said:

Parent/pupil power has seen a crumbling of the RU defences in some of these schools. There are plenty of hold-outs still, but the tide of history is not flowing in their direction.

Certainly it will be a gradual change whenever made. Parent/pupil power is definitely key but it’s also not worth underestimating the impact professional clubs in those areas can play. If they approach the schools with a targeted plan to offer support, coaching etc then it can pay dividends. It requires a collaborative approach from different stakeholders but it can be done 

[unapologetic pedant]

20 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

 

Certainly it will be a gradual change whenever made. Parent/pupil power is definitely key but it’s also not worth underestimating the impact professional clubs in those areas can play. If they approach the schools with a targeted plan to offer support, coaching etc then it can pay dividends. It requires a collaborative approach from different stakeholders but it can be done 

Do we know of any such efforts made by the RFL and our pro clubs in this area. My impression, particularly in the past, is that the people who run our pro clubs are largely indifferent to whether League is in State schools, let alone the private sector. They were more interested in signing RU players, where their idea of a development officer was someone frequenting the bars of South Wales sounding out players they deemed susceptible to an offer.

[DoubleD]

3 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Do we know of any such efforts made by the RFL and our pro clubs in this area. My impression, particularly in the past, is that the people who run our pro clubs are largely indifferent to whether League is in State schools, let alone the private sector. They were more interested in signing RU players, where their idea of a development officer was someone frequenting the bars of South Wales sounding out players they deemed susceptible to an offer.

Not as far as I’m aware but I’m not particularly well informed on schools rugby

[rlno1]

22 hours ago, The Rocket said:

I think your expression ` dragged through the mud `just about sums it up.

Super League war was one thing but the interminable scandals around our game have really taken a toll on its image. Both of the people who play it and the type of person who you are if you follow it. And hasn`t there been some bad ones. Probably for me the worse one that springs to mind and the most damaging was the Bulldogs and the `Bun` episode in Coffs Harbour all those years ago. And don`t they just occur as regular as clockwork after that. To be perfectly honest I feel like we are a little overdue. The Okinbal and Haweira- Nickua and Cody Walker kick boxing episode are fading and we need a little something to keep the pot boiling along. I wonder who?

Do you have any suggestions how we may turn this around. I thought that Robinson`s statement about Pangai Jr this week was promising," We don`t want people like him at our club ". My first reaction is to ban for life, and that the possibility of the loss of earning far more than they ever will else where may be a sufficient disincentive against bad behaviour. Any way, we will see how it goes.

 

 

The irony about the Bulldogs Coffs Harbour incident (which the media constantly used the word "rape") the club was actually innocent and the police knew within a few hours of investigation that nothing had happened and the players had nothing to answer for. This didn't stop the media running wild with lies and innuendo. It was a disgrace and they were never held accountable for everything they did. Today they very very rarely mention it and if they do they refer to it as an "episode" or an "incident". 

League stuff ups would drag on and on in the media and get connected all together and painted a very negative perception whilst the same or worse incidents in AFL would be reported once then all would move on, no damage done.

What all this mud slinging has done is position rugby league in a way that it is very hard for us to crack the blue chip sponsorships, which previous to the SL War we were racking in. This market has been taken by the AFL and to a lesser extent union.

Can it be repaired? I think so but it will take time. V'landys has got us back in bed with News Ltd so they should ease up on us. I recall when the game was at a very low ebb in 1983 with violence, low crowds (ave 6996) and the Big League report on 4 Corners which saw the demise of league boss Kevin Humphreys. As a result of all this the league changed it's management structure and Tom Bellow, Ken Arthurson and John Quayle began the new era for the code which by 1994 was the number one sport in Australia.

Personally I think that to get the game back we need to tap into our sports tradition in Sydney and win back this market. All clubs need a decent stadium, more day games on a Sunday, less chopping and changing jumpers so people can identify with their club again. A big win would be the reintroduction of the Bears, this would be huge.

Whilst these may not or will not happen in my mind the game should head towards 20 teams in conferences. 19 and 20 teams would be Wellington and Perth. Like Gus I don't buy there is not enough talent because if the league plans and provides the money enough players can be developed.