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34 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I've lived in Scotland for the last 12 years, only recently moving out of Edinburgh, so I have more than a passing interest in what is happening there - you are wrong with your assessment here, and I would argue, with respect you are being rather precious. 

There is literally nothing superior or condescending in my post. Not a thing.

I've already said this, but what would have been welcome is some useful practical advice to help them improve their lot and to ease their burden.

I've never really wondered about whether I'm being precious or not, but I know that everything we do, either moves us and others towards our/their desired goal or away from it.

So which direction do you think berating these newcomers for not having junior sections in their ''clubs'' and nit-picking about the short-comings of their ''end game'', will push them?

They've probably only got 70 or 80 players between them and maybe 4 or 5 driving the initiative for god's sake.

I'm mindful of the comments that Peter Sterling made about the nature of a World Cup without Aus/NZ as being ''mickey mouse''. I said then, that its about time we started treating newcomers to our game as very welcome additions, and offering them moral support and encouragement, instead of seeing them as lesser human beings just because they can't compete with the worlds best.

Do you want these blokes involved or not?

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1 minute ago, fighting irish said:

I've already said this, but what would have been welcome is some useful practical advice to help them improve their lot and to ease their burden.

I've never really wondered about whether I'm being precious or not, but I know that everything we do, either moves us and others towards our/their desired goal or away from it.

So which direction do you think berating these newcomers for not having junior sections in their ''clubs'' and nit-picking about the short-comings of their ''end game'', will push them?

They've probably only got 70 or 80 players between them and maybe 4 or 5 driving the initiative for god's sake.

I'm mindful of the comments that Peter Sterling made about the nature of a World Cup without Aus/NZ as being ''mickey mouse''. I said then, that its about time we started treating newcomers to our game as very welcome additions, and offering them moral support and encouragement, instead of seeing them as lesser human beings just because they can't compete with the worlds best.

Do you want these blokes involved or not?

You are having a debate that I'm not even discussing. The teams that are doing what they are doing can crack on, enjoy themselves. Anybody who wants to play RL, at whatever level, should be supported and applauded. 

I am referring to the wider state of the game and Scotland RL's approach there. 

But as long as you claim things like I am 'berating these newcomers' I am inclined to leave the thread and leave you to it.

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

You are having a debate that I'm not even discussing. The teams that are doing what they are doing can crack on, enjoy themselves. Anybody who wants to play RL, at whatever level, should be supported and applauded. 

I am referring to the wider state of the game and Scotland RL's approach there. 

But as long as you claim things like I am 'berating these newcomers' I am inclined to leave the thread and leave you to it.

It strikes me, that you would be better leaving me to it.

I'm glad you are happy for them to crack on.

One last question, who's to blame for the paucity of participants in Scotland?

 

Well its not these few lads is it? 

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1 hour ago, fighting irish said:

It strikes me, that you would be better leaving me to it.

I'm glad you are happy for them to crack on.

One last question, who's to blame for the paucity of participants in Scotland?

 

Well its not these few lads is it? 

No one has said it is. The sport is a joke here and its not the fault of the blokes playing. 

As mentioned earlier, is there a plan for Scotland overall?

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10 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

No one has said it is. The sport is a joke here and its not the fault of the blokes playing. 

As mentioned earlier, is there a plan for Scotland overall?

Indeed, this exchange has become rather weird. 

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5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Indeed, this exchange has become rather weird. 

I would love it if there were plans to have a Scottish based team in the professional structure. I would probably travel across the country to Edinburgh to watch them. The fact that there is zero plan, that magic weekends in Edinburgh havent been followed up on etc etc makes the sport a joke here. This is at a strategic level and the blame lies south of the border. Not the players. 

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12 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

I would love it if there were plans to have a Scottish based team in the professional structure. I would probably travel across the country to Edinburgh to watch them. The fact that there is zero plan, that magic weekends in Edinburgh havent been followed up on etc etc makes the sport a joke here. This is at a strategic level and the blame lies south of the border. Not the players. 

Spot on. It's bizarre anyone would take this as a criticism of the few players that do actually enjoy and play RL in Scotland.

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38 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

No one has said it is. The sport is a joke here and its not the fault of the blokes playing. 

As mentioned earlier, is there a plan for Scotland overall?

Ha ha ha, no one has said it is what? No one has said what is what? I'm glad you are not blaming the few blokes who are trying to get it going. Is there a plan, for Scotland over all? I don't know, why are you asking me? 

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35 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Indeed, this exchange has become rather weird. 

Well one of the reasons it's becoming weird is that I'm holding a consistent line and you are wriggling like hell, to try and obscure (and deny) your early contempt for these few lads.

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6 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Ha ha ha, no one has said it is what? No one has said what is what? I'm glad you are not blaming the few blokes who are trying to get it going. Is there a plan, for Scotland over all? I don't know, why are you asking me? 

By saying the below, you were inferring that Dave et al were suggesting that the lack of numbers is the players fault. Thats daft, hence my statement.

 

One last question, who's to blame for the paucity of participants in Scotland?

 

Well its not these few lads is it?

 

Open question, whats the standard like? From what i know of Glasgow, there are at least a few quality players missing? Werent Kirkaldy* also decent at one point?

*Atrocious spelling of a town that may or may not exist. 

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3 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Well one of the reasons it's becoming weird is that I'm holding a consistent line and you are wriggling like hell, to try and obscure (and deny) your early contempt for these few lads.

Thats your problem.. holding a consistent line where your initial line was and remains wrong. 

No one thinks anything negative about the players in Scotland, if anything its the opposite. I was one for a while and if i ever come to love the sport again, ill try and do somet out Helesnburgh way. 

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1 minute ago, MattSantos said:

By saying the below, you were inferring that Dave et al were suggesting that the lack of numbers is the players fault. Thats daft, hence my statement.

 

One last question, who's to blame for the paucity of participants in Scotland?

 

Well its not these few lads is it?

 

Open question, whats the standard like? From what i know of Glasgow, there are at least a few quality players missing? Werent Kirkaldy* also decent at one point?

*Atrocious spelling of a town that may or may not exist. 

Oh God, look?

Did you read the whole exchange, starting with the comments made by the Frying Scotsman, which Dave agreed with? 

If you did, then ok, I give up.

I'm not going to go over it all again, just to try to convince you.

This forum is full of people whose main modus operandi is nit picking fault finding, with every thing RL.

Such as ''the sport is a joke here''. 

I really resent it, when the criticism is of the people who are battling for all their worth, in the heat and dust of the arena and made by people languishing in the cool of the ivory tower.

Try contributing something that might actually help them.

  

 

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9 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

Thats your problem.. holding a consistent line where your initial line was and remains wrong. 

No one thinks anything negative about the players in Scotland, if anything its the opposite. I was one for a while and if i ever come to love the sport again, ill try and do somet out Helesnburgh way. 

Let me refer you to my previous post.

With regard to ''if you ever fall in love with the sport again'', then go for it!

You'll get nothing but encouragement from me. 

Edited by fighting irish
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3 hours ago, 2blackrooks said:

Totally agree mate just putting Rl in context in relation to the question 

👍🏽

I guess to the non-Scottish audience on here, these sports seem really obscure, but obviously in Scotland both have a considerably higher profile than Rugby League.

As I said, I agree with you that the game should get SportScotland funding, but if the clubs want to access that they need to get creative around youth initiatives, diversity programmes etc.

The national team would probably have got some funding ahead of the planned World Cup, as normally high performance programmes are supported at least in some form.

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17 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Well one of the reasons it's becoming weird is that I'm holding a consistent line and you are wriggling like hell, to try and obscure (and deny) your early contempt for these few lads.

Everything there is in black and white, feel free to quote where I serve up any criticism of any participants of RL.

You are being rather silly on this thread.

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3 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

Oh God, look?

Did you read the whole exchange, starting with the comments made by the Frying Scotsman, which Dave agreed with? 

If you did, then ok, I give up.

I'm not going to go over it all again, just to try to convince you.

This forum is full of people whose main modus operandi is nit picking fault finding, with every thing RL.

Such as ''the sport is a joke here''. 

I really resent it, when the criticism is of the people who are battling for all their worth, in the heat and dust of the arena and made by people languishing in the cool of the ivory tower.

Try contributing something that might actually help them.

  

 

Sport. Noun. A competition of physical activity.

People. Noun. Humans.

Very different things. The first is almost non existant. The second are a brilliant lot. 

2 very different things you see. 

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2 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

Sport. Noun. A competition of physical activity.

People. Noun. Humans.

Very different things. The first is almost non existant. The second are a brilliant lot. 

2 very different things you see. 

So let me see, you are responding to the middle line of the last post.

You chose not to answer my simple question.

In doing so, you are engaging in/promoting drift. You are moving off the consistent line but ok, I'll play. 

On what basis, do you make the statement that ''the sport is a joke here''?

In whose opinion? 

Oh and by the way, why did you fall out of love, with the sport?

Was it because you couldn't make it work and then heard someone ridiculing you? 

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5 hours ago, fighting irish said:

 

Here's a group of lads, brimming with enthusiasm for our game, struggling like hell to make it happen (in its infancy) and you two are determined to belittle them and mock their efforts

For crying out loud, let's see a little fertilizer fella's instead of your smug, self righteous vitriolic torrent of weedkiller.  

 

I didn't reply to this, as I just found it completely bizarre.

Thankfully I wasn't the only one.

Kindly show me where I was mocking anyone playing Rugby League in my post?

Mental. 

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27 minutes ago, fighting irish said:

So let me see, you are responding to the middle line of the last post.

You chose not to answer my simple question.

In doing so, you are engaging in/promoting drift. You are moving off the consistent line but ok, I'll play. 

On what basis, do you make the statement that ''the sport is a joke here''?

In whose opinion? 

Oh and by the way, why did you fall out of love, with the sport?

Was it because you couldn't make it work and then heard someone ridiculing you? 

1. Root cause of the thread drift is your incorrect commentary on peoples view of the folk on the ground in Ecosse.

2. There isnt a plan at all, therefore the sport is a joke. Again, this is more aimed at the strategic view as a whole, not Scotland. Let me add more detail; in the NFL there are a number of student and amateur leagues. Participation could be awful, but right now it doesnt matter as theres a plan. By the way, i think theres a decent structure here in terms of teams. 

Oh.. wasnt the final cancelled because another team prioritised their sport 1st.

3. A myriad of reasons, the majority of them tied to point 2 which is applicable to the whole sport. Throw in a move away from the heartlands and that ive just moved on at this time in my life. 

As im the author of this post and as i havent said otherwise, these are clearly my opinions. 

4. If ive tried something and it hasnt worked, its usually because i didnt know what i was aiming for. There wasnt a plan!! Business, life, sport. Applicable in all aspects. Have a plan!! 

 

Edit as im in a queue in John Lewis and i type like me Mam

Edited by MattSantos
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9 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

I didn't reply to this, as I just found it completely bizarre.

Thankfully I wasn't the only one.

Kindly show me where I was mocking anyone playing Rugby League in my post?

Mental. 

Mental? Ooooooh,

I already copied and pasted your original post but here goes.

 

''And so they should. Shinty has about 50 clubs playing the game spread over multiple leagues (men, women, kids). Rugby League doesn't even have 5 clubs. (I don't count Strathmore... They are a union club, and funding them would be nonsensical). 

Scotland men were beaten in the final of the World Curling Championships this year, and are consistently a major curling nation, challenging for honours. Curling has been a demo sport at several Olympic Games. Rugby League is miles off ever being in the Olympics.

Rugby League should qualify for SportScotland funding, I agree.  However most funding is either bracketed for high performance, or junior development. Scotland RL has virtually no organised junior Rugby League, so is essentially a leisure pursuit for amateur adult male players. Show me a governing body that awards federations funding for that?? They will have little or no interest in supporting that financially.

They certainly don't dole out cash to adult amateur teams, with no junior sections, no women's teams, just so they can rent rugby union pitches and run about in an amateur competition where teams don't even fulfill fixtures. ''

 

The first two highlighted phrases, could be construed as simple statements of fact, but I don't believe you didn't mean to imply some measure of ridicule.

The last, is plainly condescending, finger wagging, and undoubtedly laced with ridicule.

You can deny it, all you want.

Now I ask you what do you think these young enthusiasts would take from your last line? That they are fools? That they are a laughing stock? That they are just unworthy of getting cash support? That they should pack it all in, because they are wasting their time? That they should organise junior teams and girls teams with the few hours they have to spend and set aside their desire to play? 

My mind is made up mate. I'm convinced about your haughty attitude and I'm just opposing that by declaring my support for these newcomers and suggesting, that with a warmer welcome and a hearty measure of respect, for people struggling to establish our game we'd be a lot better off, than we are now. 

 

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2 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

1. Root cause of the thread drift is your incorrect commentary on peoples view of the folk on the ground in Ecosse.

2. There isnt a plan at all, therefore the sport is a joke. Again, this is more aimed at the strategics as a whole, not Scotland. Let me add more detail; in the NFL there are a number of student and amateur leagues. Participation could be awful, but right now it doesnt matter as theres a plan. By the way, i think theres a decent structure here in terms of teams. 

Oh.. wasnt the final cancelled because another team prioritised their sport 1st.

3. A myriad of reasons, the majority of them tied to point 2 whixh is applicable to the sport. Throw in a kove away from.the heartlands and that ive just moved on at this time in my life. 

As im the author of this post and asni havent said otherwise, these are clearly my opinions. 

1. I'll ask again, have you read the whole exchange?

2. So you mean that because the sport doesn't have a plan, its a joke? In whose opinion? (Yours?).

How can anyone not presume that you mean the existing structure (of the sport) and by extension, its participants are a joke?

So who is responsible for creating the plan? Who's to blame for not having one? 

This whole discussion began with comments about the handful of amateur teams that managed to organise an Edinburgh v Barbarians game. An achievement which I think they can be rightly proud of.

Is your comment........''Oh wasn't the final cancelled because another team prioritised their sport 1st.''...... your way of complimenting these few lads on their achievements or is that perhaps (please forgive me if I'm wrong) a p*** take?

3. At least these lads are still trying, you obviously threw the towel in, when the going got tough and discovered there was no-one (at RFL) to do it for you.

Is this the reason you see their efforts as ''a joke''?  

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@fighting irish

What on earth are you talking about???

These are facts. It is a leisure pursuit for amateur adult male players. 

There is no high performance angle.... And no very little junior development. Additionally, Women's RL does not exist in the country. 

In the 1 domestic competition they have, there are teams who do not fulfil fixtures. 

Any sport which fits that description is unlikely (in my experience) to secure much, SportScotland funding.

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4 minutes ago, The Frying Scotsman said:

@fighting irish

What on earth are you talking about???

These are facts. It is a leisure pursuit for amateur adult male players. 

There is no high performance angle.... And no very little junior development. Additionally, Women's RL does not exist in the country. 

In the 1 domestic competition they have, there are teams who do not fulfil fixtures. 

Any sport which fits that description is unlikely (in my experience) to secure much, SportScotland funding.

Yes I agree, at the moment, it is a leisure pursuit for young adult males. Fact.

I agree also with your second line. Fact.

So too the third line. Fact. 

And blimey, so is the fourth. Fact.

I believe I've made it quite plain, what I'm talking about, all along.

I'm for Rugby League and those who (in most cases, make herculean efforts to) organise it and I don't take kindly to it's or to their critics.

You decide, please, which side of the fence you stand on? Are you for us, or agin us?

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4 minutes ago, MattSantos said:

Hearts in the right place but unable to grasp any sort of nuance. 

If your idea of nuance, is putting the boot into our most vulnerable exponents, then I'm happy to differ. 

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