Clubs on the Up

[David Dockhouse Host]

On 05/11/2021 at 15:51, ShropshireBull said:

I guess Rochdale really depends on what kind of crowds they could draw if they go up . Guy in charge obviously thinks they have potential compared to Swinton and at least play in town. Linked up with college which is good. Averaged around a thousand which is good after a naff season and covid so if Dale run well this year maybe 1500 average . Problem is they don´t get the bar money or money from stadium sponsorship and commercially growth in Rochdale likely to be weaker than say Newcastle or York. Still,  would be good to see them in the Champ bobbing along at around 2000. 

 

 

On 05/11/2021 at 15:52, JM2010 said:

I think Rochdale does have some potential for growth. It's quite a large town and has some strong community clubs in and around

Lots already in place at Rochdale.

 

 

 

 

[Tim Streets tache]

On 05/11/2021 at 15:51, ShropshireBull said:

I guess Rochdale really depends on what kind of crowds they could draw if they go up . Guy in charge obviously thinks they have potential compared to Swinton and at least play in town. Linked up with college which is good. Averaged around a thousand which is good after a naff season and covid so if Dale run well this year maybe 1500 average . Problem is they don´t get the bar money or money from stadium sponsorship and commercially growth in Rochdale likely to be weaker than say Newcastle or York. Still,  would be good to see them in the Champ bobbing along at around 2000. 

 

Rochdale no way near have an average of 1000. Mazey used to fabricate attendances when he was at Swinton too

[Eddie]

51 minutes ago, Tim Streets tache said:

Rochdale no way near have an average of 1000. Mazey used to fabricate attendances when he was at Swinton too

Why would he do that, when they’d have to pay more tax on gate receipts? 

[Tim Streets tache]

13 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Why would he do that, when they’d have to pay more tax on gate receipts? 

Have to ask him that. Can only state from what i've seen. 

Swinton V Toulouse a couple of years ago was reported at 2800.... Lucky if there was more than 1000 there. Worked the other way at times too.... Swinton V Workington promotion/relegation game springs to mind.

The bloke's an absolute whopper.

[ShropshireBull]

1 minute ago, Tim Streets tache said:

Have to ask him that. Can only state from what i've seen. 

Swinton V Toulouse a couple of years ago was reported at 2800.... Lucky if there was more than 1000 there. Worked the other way at times too.... Swinton V Workington promotion/relegation game springs to mind.

The bloke's an absolute whopper.

Well the proof next year will be in the pudding. He is right that Swinton, playing outside their home with no stadium have zero future or growth in their current state. I wish Rochdale well. 

[Eddie]

13 minutes ago, Tim Streets tache said:

Have to ask him that. Can only state from what i've seen. 

Swinton V Toulouse a couple of years ago was reported at 2800.... Lucky if there was more than 1000 there. Worked the other way at times too.... Swinton V Workington promotion/relegation game springs to mind.

The bloke's an absolute whopper.

As a Swinton fan you’ll know a lot more about his tenure there than me, but I’ve been very impressed by his consortium’s plans for Rochdale. 

[Tim Streets tache]

33 minutes ago, Eddie said:

As a Swinton fan you’ll know a lot more about his tenure there than me, but I’ve been very impressed by his consortium’s plans for Rochdale. 

I genuinely hope it does work out for Rochdale. Just hope he's learned lessons from previous fall outs/drunken social media ramblings and arguments with fans, then lieing to the press.

Would be great if Rochdale as a town could catch the RL bug.  Be interesting to see how Littler copes coaching a team who are expected to win every week rather than stay up by the skin of their teeth. League One is gonna be brilliant! Can't wait!

 

On the original topic, it is nice that Rochdale definately now have some optimism!

Edited November 8, 2021 by Tim Streets tache

[GUBRATS]

17 hours ago, Tabby said:

They are not juniors.

Junior as in below 1st team 

[GUBRATS]

16 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

There is a problem with "clubs on the up", if being "on the up" is inextricably tied to success on the field. Inexorably it means there will always be a corresponding number of clubs "on the down"

Popularity that follows in the wake of on-field success for the local pro club is built on sand, and a guarantee of stagnation at best for the game as a whole.

I'd disagree completely , you build a fan base when successful , hopefully you retain a % of that gain when less successful , much better than having one or two clubs dominate everything over a long period 

 

[ATLANTISMAN]

Well the Broncos are on the UP I think 100%

UP the creek without a paddle:(

[NW10LDN]

1 minute ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

Well the Broncos are on the UP I think 100%

UP the creek without a paddle:(

Tweet up there from the supporters association about attendance being in the thousands only to be reminded that can barely get 3/400 these days.

[unapologetic pedant]

6 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

I'd disagree completely , you build a fan base when successful , hopefully you retain a % of that gain when less successful 

After the low ebb of the 80s, Soccer crowds grew across the board through the 90s. This was on the back of Italia 90, grounds being made safer and more congenial, and Soccer generally becoming more fashionable to follow. Those elements meant every club could potentially build and retain a larger core fanbase irrespective of on-field fortunes.

6 hours ago, GUBRATS said:

much better than having one or two clubs dominate everything over a long period 

Not sure why you think this point is at odds with the argument I made. 

Big clubs needing to dominate to retain their fanbase, and smaller clubs needing to win more to grow their fanbase, are two sides of the same coin.

[Eddie]

4 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

 

Big clubs needing to dominate to retain their fanbase, and smaller clubs needing to win more to grow their fanbase, are two sides of the same coin.

Or weirdly sometimes when teams get relegated to a division below where they ‘should’ be in the scheme of things it galvanises their support and they come back stronger, that’s happened to plenty of struggling traditional league teams who’ve gone down to the conference. Maybe parallels with Barrow when they went down to League One. 

[M j M]

16 hours ago, Eddie said:

Why would he do that, when they’d have to pay more tax on gate receipts? 

Publishing a crowd figure has no impact on the amount of tax payable.

[Griff]

17 hours ago, Eddie said:

Why would he do that, when they’d have to pay more tax on gate receipts? 

You think the Government charge tax on what it says in League Express?

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

You think the Government charge tax on what it says in League Express?

No but I do think the Rev would have a look at what gate a club declared in public and compare it to the gate receipts that they said they’d received for that match. 

[iffleyox]

7 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

After the low ebb of the 80s, Soccer crowds grew across the board through the 90s. This was on the back of Italia 90, grounds being made safer and more congenial, and Soccer generally becoming more fashionable to follow. Those elements meant every club could potentially build and retain a larger core fanbase irrespective of on-field fortunes.

Up to a point - the early/mid nineties football was so popular that you could get over 3,000 in the non-league for the top sides (and I don't mean ex league ones either - your Wokings, Stevenages, Yeovils, Kidderminsters could nudge 4k if they were playing each other), but conference - level 5 - attendances have fallen right back.

Lots of infrastructure got funded in the lower football leagues that they wouldn't be able to afford now. 

[Griff]

51 minutes ago, Eddie said:

No but I do think the Rev would have a look at what gate a club declared in public and compare it to the gate receipts that they said they’d received for that match. 

You're mistaken.

HMRC enquiries have ground to a halt over the last ten years.

[Eddie]

2 minutes ago, Griff said:

You're mistaken.

HMRC enquiries have ground to a halt over the last ten years.

Right you are chief. 

[M j M]

1 hour ago, Griff said:

You're mistaken.

HMRC enquiries have ground to a halt over the last ten years.

I'd be amused/amazed even if a club was by poor luck the victim of an HMRC call if they tried to do some revenue or VAT proof in total (based on figures they'd struggle to find anyway).

Even then you'd just say "ah that's rubbish we just put out for PR purposes, here's the real list."

[Griff]

2 minutes ago, M j M said:

I'd be amused/amazed even if a club was by poor luck the victim of an HMRC call if they tried to do some revenue or VAT proof in total (based on figures they'd struggle to find anyway).

Even then you'd just say "ah that's rubbish we just put out for PR purposes, here's the real list."

Turnstile readings will trump newspapers as evidence.

[Eddie]

1 minute ago, Griff said:

Turnstile readings will trump newspapers as evidence.

I don’t think many L1 clubs have electronic turnstile monitoring?  It’s well known that football clubs used to understate attendances for the very reason of paying less tax. 

[gingerjon]

10 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I don’t think many L1 clubs have electronic turnstile monitoring?  It’s well known that football clubs used to understate attendances for the very reason of paying less tax. 

And then HMRC started turning up with clickers, I believe.

[Griff]

55 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I don’t think many L1 clubs have electronic turnstile monitoring?  It’s well known that football clubs used to understate attendances for the very reason of paying less tax. 

Electronic ??   Eeeeh - how did we manage before computers ?   It's amazing that we survived.

So - these soccer clubs.   Did they have electronic turnstiles ?  Who are they ?   Or is it not as well-known as you imply?

[Eddie]

6 minutes ago, Griff said:

Electronic ??   Eeeeh - how did we manage before computers ?   It's amazing that we survived.

So - these soccer clubs.   Did they have electronic turnstiles ?  Who are they ?   Or is it not as well-known as you imply?

No idea how old you are, or if you ever went to football, but it was often quite blatant. For instance I remember a Merseyside derby attendance being announced as 38k when there wasn’t a space in the house in the 45k capacity stadium - cue mirth in the crowd.