Girl's RL - An experiment in the making. Follow it here...

[Northern Eel]

Not everyone's cup of tea, so do feel free to tune out at any time, but...

Bassetlaw Bulldogs (bassetlawbulldogs.co.uk) , in Nottinghamshire are starting their first all-girl RL team at the club this season, at the U12 age group. This spans the Y6 (end of Primary School) and Y7 (Start of Secondary) age groups with a hope of finding a niche in the local sports scene. There doesn't seem to be many all-girl teams across the sports in the area and it is hoped that the first attempts will be successful.

Who they will play is another matter. Time will tell, but feel free to follow the journey here.

[unapologetic pedant]

11 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

Not everyone's cup of tea, so do feel free to tune out at any time, but...

Why the caveat? Most things aren`t "everyone`s cup of tea".

Reminiscent of the precautionary guidance from announcers on the BBC World Service when they informed listeners that John Peel was on the way with his "er... very distinctive and ...er, ...er, individual choice of music". At times, it verged on advice to switch off and return later when the danger had passed.

I`m pretty certain Bolsover Bulls had a girls` team a few years ago. They must have played in one of the East divisions.

There used to be a definitive list of girls` clubs on the RFL website. But I can`t find it now. That site is getting worse.

[SSoutherner]

On 13/01/2022 at 20:28, Northern Eel said:

Not everyone's cup of tea, so do feel free to tune out at any time, but...

Bassetlaw Bulldogs (bassetlawbulldogs.co.uk) , in Nottinghamshire are starting their first all-girl RL team at the club this season, at the U12 age group. This spans the Y6 (end of Primary School) and Y7 (Start of Secondary) age groups with a hope of finding a niche in the local sports scene. There doesn't seem to be many all-girl teams across the sports in the area and it is hoped that the first attempts will be successful.

Who they will play is another matter. Time will tell, but feel free to follow the journey here.

Not really true to say "There doesn't seem to be many all-girl teams across the sports in the area", Mansfield and Newark Union clubs have u11,13,15 & 18 girls teams. 

 

I know because the Mansfield u18 team were runners up in the Union National Girls cup in 2019

[Northern Eel]

8 hours ago, SSoutherner said:

Not really true to say "There doesn't seem to be many all-girl teams across the sports in the area", Mansfield and Newark Union clubs have u11,13,15 & 18 girls teams. 

 

I know because the Mansfield u18 team were runners up in the Union National Girls cup in 2019

I was thinking more about the club’s natural catchment of Retford and Worksop, to be fair.

Newark and Mansfield are 25-30 minute drives.  Two RU clubs that distance away doesn’t provide much evidence of ‘many’ all girl teams in our vicinity, I’d say, but I appreciate you’re challenging the semantics. 

I’ve no interest in union, so don’t know the landscape of the area, but a quick Google of club websites and chats with folk who play doesn’t show anything relating to girls teams more locally.

Edited January 15, 2022 by Northern Eel

[Northern Eel]

23 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Why the caveat? Most things aren`t "everyone`s cup of tea".

Reminiscent of the precautionary guidance from announcers on the BBC World Service when they informed listeners that John Peel was on the way with his "er... very distinctive and ...er, ...er, individual choice of music". At times, it verged on advice to switch off and return later when the danger had passed.

I`m pretty certain Bolsover Bulls had a girls` team a few years ago. They must have played in one of the East divisions.

There used to be a definitive list of girls` clubs on the RFL website. But I can`t find it now. That site is getting worse.

Just pre-empting negativity - which isn't often too far away. You're absolutely right, a caveat probably isn't necessary on this one.

Hopefully, Bolsover will have some girls teams again. I think the one/ones they previously had were perhaps U14 or U15, something like that, but not last year as far as I know.

[unapologetic pedant]

6 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

Hopefully, Bolsover will have some girls teams again. I think the one/ones they previously had were perhaps U14 or U15, something like that, but not last year as far as I know.

There`s obviously little chance of a distinct East Midlands Girls RL competition for the foreseeable future. A team from Bassetlaw or Bolsover will have to play in a Yorkshire division.

The flip side of all the extra character-building travel for an outpost club is that they can become a hub for a wider area if they generate initial interest and then establish a good reputation for developing players.

Whitley Bay Barbarians are a lot further away from the heartlands, yet managed to have over a hundred players in their female section pre-Covid. And several who came through their system were playing in WSL last year, 3 at Leeds and 3 at Huddersfield.

[RayCee]

On 15/01/2022 at 21:52, Northern Eel said:

Just pre-empting negativity - which isn't often too far away. You're absolutely right, a caveat probably isn't necessary on this one.

Hopefully, Bolsover will have some girls teams again. I think the one/ones they previously had were perhaps U14 or U15, something like that, but not last year as far as I know.

I feel the same way about a negative undercurrent some have toward the women’s game. I said a little while back there’s a future in women’s pro RL. One said he didn’t think so and not one reply of support for the possibility. 

I think many see the women’s game as the pc thing to promote but with no real chance of it ever being financially viable. That undercurrent can make one preemptively defensive when discussing it but unfortunately that only adds to the perception that it’s a nice idea but….

[SSoutherner]

They need to sort it as currently decent talent leaves league for union

 

Look at Abi Burton of Wasps and GB 7's, she is from Castleford, daughter of Danny Burton and her brothers are/were in Rhino's academy. I have seen her training girls at Union wearing a Tigers shirt 

[The Rocket]

On 17/01/2022 at 09:21, RayCee said:

I feel the same way about a negative undercurrent some have toward the women’s game. I said a little while back there’s a future in women’s pro RL. One said he didn’t think so and not one reply of support for the possibility. 

I think many see the women’s game as the pc thing to promote but with no real chance of it ever being financially viable. That undercurrent can make one preemptively defensive when discussing it but unfortunately that only adds to the perception that it’s a nice idea but….

 Ray I too was sceptical about the ability of women`s sports ability to pay for itself and feared that it could become a financial drain on the thing that earns the most money i.e. the men`s competitions. European soccer may be be able to afford that but down here where we are in a battle with other codes where every dollar counts and attracting and developing the best talent may determine who wins out in the long-run.

Given time to reflect on this I have adjusted my thinking somewhat. Firstly having seen the ability of women`s tennis and golf to co-exist with the men`s has made me realise there can be a market for both, with both having different attractions. Ladies sport should not be viewed as just the 4th or 5th best level of men`s, but with highly skilled participants has its` own attractions.

The other thing that dawned on me is that we are only at the tip of the iceberg with women`s sports participation. Without wanting to get too deep we`ve really had 2000 years of women being told to know their place and personal characteristics like submissiveness and an exaggerated form of femininity being valued above all else. These attitudes won`t disappear overnight. Women however do seem to be shaking off these shackles and antiquated notions of what it is to be a woman and as this spreads through the greater female population we are going to see vast more numbers of females participating in all forms of sport and not just the ones that were deemed appropriate for females to play in the past.

The upshot of all this if you are a young girl who enjoys the physicality of a body-contact sport in the future there will be no barriers from participating in it and this brings me back to my point I`m beginning to think we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg with female participation in contact sports. As this grows and is taken more seriously and is professionalised and talent developed to the nth degree there will be no reason why these competitions won`t be as gripping and attractive to watch in their own way as any men`s competition.

 

Edited January 20, 2022 by The Rocket

[RayCee]

On 21/01/2022 at 09:48, The Rocket said:

 Ray I too was sceptical about the ability of women`s sports ability to pay for itself and feared that it could become a financial drain on the thing that earns the most money i.e. the men`s competitions. European soccer may be be able to afford that but down here where we are in a battle with other codes where every dollar counts and attracting and developing the best talent may determine who wins out in the long-run.

Given time to reflect on this I have adjusted my thinking somewhat. Firstly having seen the ability of women`s tennis and golf to co-exist with the men`s has made me realise there can be a market for both, with both having different attractions. Ladies sport should not be viewed as just the 4th or 5th best level of men`s, but with highly skilled participants has its` own attractions.

The other thing that dawned on me is that we are only at the tip of the iceberg with women`s sports participation. Without wanting to get too deep we`ve really had 2000 years of women being told to know their place and personal characteristics like submissiveness and an exaggerated form of femininity being valued above all else. These attitudes won`t disappear overnight. Women however do seem to be shaking off these shackles and antiquated notions of what it is to be a woman and as this spreads through the greater female population we are going to see vast more numbers of females participating in all forms of sport and not just the ones that were deemed appropriate for females to play in the past.

The upshot of all this if you are a young girl who enjoys the physicality of a body-contact sport in the future there will be no barriers from participating in it and this brings me back to my point I`m beginning to think we are only seeing the tip of the iceberg with female participation in contact sports. As this grows and is taken more seriously and is professionalised and talent developed to the nth degree there will be no reason why these competitions won`t be as gripping and attractive to watch in their own way as any men`s competition.

 

Well put Rocket.

[Northern Eel]

A quick update; two weeks in and 14 girls recruited. Steady numbers and hoping to make 20+ in the coming weeks. 

[Northern Eel]

The young Bulldogs girls team made it to the start line yesterday. A defeat on the field, but a massive win for the club. 

[Northern Eel]

It is sometime since the last update, so if anyone is interested, things have progress a little over the past year.

After negotiating their way through some Development League friendly fixtures at the end of last year, the club took the extremely ambitious route of joining the national girls league, East Division B, where they were matched up with a number of Yorkshire-based clubs. 

After a very tough start, the girls team gradually progressed and, by the end of this year's league season have won two of their twelve games, overcoming both Batley Girls and West Leeds Eagles in the second half of the season. It meant that they were able to rise off the bottom of the table in their first competitive season. 

It has been hard for most of the season. Whilst the girls only really took two proper drubbings, rarely were we able to put out all registered players on the same day and this meant playing most games without subs. (We also appreciate that sometimes this has been challenging for opposition teams too).

However, progress on the field meant that the girls just kept on improving and eventually they recorded their first ever victories. Most of the clubs in the league have been really supportive and we appreciate this. Whilst we don't mind the travel up north every other week, it is fair to say there are some clubs who really don't like travelling down to us once a season, but to be able to provide regular, reliable challenges for our girls at home has been a monumental positive.

There's a round-robin cup competition in September, which will test the girls further, but 2024 is a season that we are looking forward to a great deal, as so much has been learnt this year and we can't wait to improve ourselves further next year.

If you don't try, you will never know.

[unapologetic pedant]

48 minutes ago, Northern Eel said:

However, progress on the field meant that the girls just kept on improving and eventually they recorded their first ever victories. 

Wouldn't read much into junior league results. That sentiment isn't pure Corinthian spirit. How clued up the ref is can often be the difference between win or lose.

A new team only need to look reasonably competitive i.e. opposition don't score on every set and you don't drop every pass. Just something to work with and build confidence.

1 hour ago, Northern Eel said:

There's a round-robin cup competition in September, which will test the girls further, but 2024 is a season that we are looking forward to a great deal, as so much has been learnt this year and we can't wait to improve ourselves further next year.

With an eye on sustainability, how many girls do you have in the mixed grades?

[Northern Eel]

3 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Wouldn't read much into junior league results. That sentiment isn't pure Corinthian spirit. How clued up the ref is can often be the difference between win or lose.

A new team only need to look reasonably competitive i.e. opposition don't score on every set and you don't drop every pass. Just something to work with and build confidence.

With an eye on sustainability, how many girls do you have in the mixed grades?

You make two separate points, which I would argue are actually very much related. Whilst your point about putting too much emphasis on winning is valid to a degree, it is nigh on impossible to sustain interest and confidence when you are getting tonked week in week out. The euphoria amongst the girls when the win came was testament to this. How many girls would travel 1-1 1/2 hours every other week to get smashed and simply keep on coming back? As coaches, we aspired after a few games to set our sights far higher than conceding on every set and completing our own. The fact the results got better and better as the season went on shows that the main KPIs of the season were to improve and help to sustain interest.

To answer your second point, about 10% of our player-base in the juniors are girls. The fact we have already put in place dates/venues/programmes for our schools work from January 2024 will hopefully ensure we increase numbers at all levels. All of this is delivered on a volunteer basis, but we do feel we are being proactive and positive. 

 

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

 Whilst your point about putting too much emphasis on winning is valid to a degree, it is nigh on impossible to sustain interest and confidence when you are getting tonked week in week out. The euphoria amongst the girls when the win came was testament to this. How many girls would travel 1-1 1/2 hours every other week to get smashed and simply keep on coming back? 

Expressly said I wasn't advocating "pure Corinthian spirit". From memory, your first victory was 32-30. I've seldom seen a game of RL at any level where a 50/50 ref call couldn't have easily flipped a 2-point win into a 2-point loss. Naturally the players were euphoric when they got the win. More importantly, it was a close competitive game.

 

2 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

 How many girls would travel 1-1 1/2 hours every other week to get smashed and simply keep on coming back? As coaches, we aspired after a few games to set our sights far higher than conceding on every set and completing our own. 

 

6 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

A new team only need to look reasonably competitive i.e. opposition don't score on every set and you don't drop every pass. Just something to work with and build confidence.

Note "new" team. The above point related to the start of the season. For one thing, if you're unfamiliar with the opposition it's harder to gauge your own performance. You might get spanked in your first game by a team who will go on to spank everyone else. As long as you see enough signs that your team are not completely out of their depth in the division.

 

3 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

To answer your second point, about 10% of our player-base in the juniors are girls. 

I think that's roughly in line with current trends in traditional RL areas around the world. Augurs well for your future.

[The Blues Ox]

Sounds like you are doing brilliantly. The only thing I would add is that its a very fine line between win at all costs at the detriment to development. Ive been involved in the women and girls game a number of years now and saw a lot of teams where their tactics were simply "give it to the big girl" in the juniors and it obviously works and we would lose a lot of games where we came up against that approach which although frustrating we could see the bigger picture. Fast forward a few years and those big girls are not as big anymore and a lot of their teammates never really improved because their game time wasn't preparing them and now the roles are reversed and its nice to see that not many teams can match those players from the juniors skill wise.

It sounds like you are doing a great job.

[Northern Eel]

5 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

Sounds like you are doing brilliantly. The only thing I would add is that its a very fine line between win at all costs at the detriment to development. Ive been involved in the women and girls game a number of years now and saw a lot of teams where their tactics were simply "give it to the big girl" in the juniors and it obviously works and we would lose a lot of games where we came up against that approach which although frustrating we could see the bigger picture. Fast forward a few years and those big girls are not as big anymore and a lot of their teammates never really improved because their game time wasn't preparing them and now the roles are reversed and its nice to see that not many teams can match those players from the juniors skill wise.

It sounds like you are doing a great job.

Thanks for the positive response and praise; much appreciated!

I don't know where the idea came from in my post that we were taking anything other than a pragmatic and wholesome approach to developing this team. Perhaps UPs initial response threw the cat amongst the pigeons when picking up on our elation of winning our first game (our 2nd win was much more comfortable and convincing too).

If anything, we have run our development of this team very much with the scoreboard being the least important aspect of judging our success. We have measured 'success' in every game, including those we won, in ways other than just on the scoreboard. What is important in an area where nobody really plays rugby league is that we develop individuals and try to encourage them to contribute their skills to a team-agreed tactic throughout games. We have been measuring our success against our ability to do these things, rather than win every game.

Naturally, however, the girls do just want to win, just like the boys, just like the men etc. It's a balancing act.

[unapologetic pedant]

4 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

I don't know where the idea came from in my post that we were taking anything other than a pragmatic and wholesome approach to developing this team. 

I didn't get that idea. The line in my post about "results" was merely reflecting on the random factors that turn narrow wins into narrow losses and vice versa.

 

4 hours ago, Northern Eel said:

Naturally, however, the girls do just want to win, just like the boys, just like the men etc. It's a balancing act.

Bassetlaw Bulldogs Facebook page strikes exactly the right balance.