Championship Meeting

[Griff]

Just now, Spidey said:

It was good enough in 1995 

And, of course, nobody's mentioned it since.

Would you suggest it becomes an annual event?

[Rovers13]

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

It was good enough in 1995 

Let’s do it every year then. Do I get first vote? C@s your relegated

[Spidey]

7 minutes ago, Griff said:

And, of course, nobody's mentioned it since.

Would you suggest it becomes an annual event?

Joking aside, this time around probably means it can be justified to ensure we don’t lose more clubs. 

[Griff]

9 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Joking aside, this time around probably means it can be justified to ensure we don’t lose more clubs. 

Those "relegated" teams, whoever they might be, will have already assembled a Championship standard team on Championship standard wages on the assumption that they'd be playing Championship teams with Championship gates.

[Colin James]

6 minutes ago, Griff said:

Those "relegated" teams, whoever they might be, will have already assembled a Championship standard team on Championship standard wages on the assumption that they'd be playing Championship teams with Championship gates.

I suspect some players would seek release from their contract if the club suddenly isn't offering the same level of rugby. Not only would you be penalising the club financially, they'd probably lose their better players and have little chance of promotion back to the second tier.

[Griff]

24 minutes ago, Colin James said:

I suspect some players would seek release from their contract if the club suddenly isn't offering the same level of rugby. Not only would you be penalising the club financially, they'd probably lose their better players and have little chance of promotion back to the second tier.

Not sure where they'd go, mind you.   Most other clubs will have their personnel sorted.

Edited October 18, 2023 by Griff

[Spidey]

30 minutes ago, Griff said:

Those "relegated" teams, whoever they might be, will have already assembled a Championship standard team on Championship standard wages on the assumption that they'd be playing Championship teams with Championship gates.

Then they should have no problem beating the league one clubs for promotion the next term

I’m not saying it’s fair, just may be a practical solution to the problem

[Griff]

5 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Then they should have no problem beating the league one clubs for promotion the next term

I’m not saying it’s fair, just may be a practical solution to the problem

Maybe they'll cease trading.  Unable to meet their excessive wage bill.

[Spidey]

24 minutes ago, Griff said:

Maybe they'll cease trading.  Unable to meet their excessive wage bill.

It’s a numbers game. What’s worth more 1 or 2 championship clubs or the 8 League One clubs?

Again it’s not about fairness 

[Griff]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

It’s a numbers game. What’s worth more 1 or 2 championship clubs or the 8 League One clubs?

Again it’s not about fairness 

But if the 1 or 2 Championship clubs disappear, the 8 League One clubs are back where they started in a league of 8.

What happens in 2025?  Two more Championship clubs disappear?

[Spidey]

Just now, Griff said:

But if the 1 or 2 Championship clubs disappear, the 8 League One clubs are back where they started in a league of 8.

What happens in 2025?  Two more Championship clubs disappear?

What’s the right solution?

[Griff]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

What’s the right solution?

There isn't one.   It's a right mess.

I suspect there'll be a massive compromise which will please nobody.

If it were down to me, I'd probably go for a combined league with a core  fixture programme weighted towards playing teams of roughly your own ability.

[Spidey]

Just now, Griff said:

There isn't one.   It's a right mess.

I suspect there'll be a massive compromise which will please nobody.

If it were down to me, I'd probably go for a combined league with a core  fixture programme weighted towards playing teams of roughly your own ability.

How would you determine ability?

[Tommygilf]

From what I know about why a combined Champ/L1 was rejected by championship clubs a few weeks ago, this is the main concerns and how they could be addressed.

1. The number 1 issue, as I understand, for most clubs was not being able to guarantee fixtures against the biggest drawing/best followed teams as they do now. 

2. Uncertainty on the number of fixtures. This is twofold. Firstly on the number of home games for the Club's benefit, and secondly on the overall number of fixtures and the impact that has on player contracts/payments. Clubs currently play 13 home, 13 away plus Summer Bash and any Cup fixtures.

3. Concerns over trips to Cornwall.

For me the solution, which encompasses everyone and helps in the new IMG world perhaps, is a combined league with Conferences. You play everyone in your conference home and away and everyone in the other conference once (that could be tinkered with though to manage the number of games). An ideal split of the biggest followings, ie Bradford and Widnes etc would be preferred, as well as keeping Toulouse and Cornwall separate. At such a late stage too the ability to be quite prescriptive with these conferences is there as well.

If we take the 22 current Championship and League 1 clubs, that leaves the obvious split of 2 x 11 team conferences.

To me at least the obvious way to sort clubs is a broad East vs West, this could give you something like this to start with:

WEST: Widnes, Barrow, Whitehaven, Workington, Swinton, Oldham, Rochdale, Midlands, North Wales, Toulouse, Halifax.

EAST: Bradford, Wakefield, York, Dewsbury, Batley, Featherstone, Hunslet, Doncaster, Sheffield, Keighley, Cornwall. 

Whilst on the face of it, East looks a fair bit stronger. It should be noted that with 3 of the current League 1 clubs being a part of it as well as the two most recently promoted sides, that "strength" can be decieving. Likewise the pros of being in that league are also balanced with having a guaranteed away trip to Cornwall as part of your fixtures. 

West seems to be all over the place but both conferences would offer some decent competition at least as a short term fix. 

[Griff]

Just now, Spidey said:

How would you determine ability?

Last year's league tables.  If it's wrong, tough.  At least it's objective.

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Griff said:

Last year's league tables.  If it's wrong, tough.  At least it's objective.

Fwiw, do you class Keighley as the top League 1 club then and Dewsbury and Donny as the bottom 2 championship ones?

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

From what I know about why a combined Champ/L1 was rejected by championship clubs a few weeks ago, this is the main concerns and how they could be addressed.

1. The number 1 issue, as I understand, for most clubs was not being able to guarantee fixtures against the biggest drawing/best followed teams as they do now. 

2. Uncertainty on the number of fixtures. This is twofold. Firstly on the number of home games for the Club's benefit, and secondly on the overall number of fixtures and the impact that has on player contracts/payments. Clubs currently play 13 home, 13 away plus Summer Bash and any Cup fixtures.

3. Concerns over trips to Cornwall.

For me the solution, which encompasses everyone and helps in the new IMG world perhaps, is a combined league with Conferences. You play everyone in your conference home and away and everyone in the other conference once (that could be tinkered with though to manage the number of games). An ideal split of the biggest followings, ie Bradford and Widnes etc would be preferred, as well as keeping Toulouse and Cornwall separate. At such a late stage too the ability to be quite prescriptive with these conferences is there as well.

If we take the 22 current Championship and League 1 clubs, that leaves the obvious split of 2 x 11 team conferences.

To me at least the obvious way to sort clubs is a broad East vs West, this could give you something like this to start with:

WEST: Widnes, Barrow, Whitehaven, Workington, Swinton, Oldham, Rochdale, Midlands, North Wales, Toulouse, Halifax.

EAST: Bradford, Wakefield, York, Dewsbury, Batley, Featherstone, Hunslet, Doncaster, Sheffield, Keighley, Cornwall. 

Whilst on the face of it, East looks a fair bit stronger. It should be noted that with 3 of the current League 1 clubs being a part of it as well as the two most recently promoted sides, that "strength" can be decieving. Likewise the pros of being in that league are also balanced with having a guaranteed away trip to Cornwall as part of your fixtures. 

West seems to be all over the place but both conferences would offer some decent competition at least as a short term fix. 

As that would be the most sensible and fair outcome I expect the majority of clubs to not consider it

[Griff]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Fwiw, do you class Keighley as the top League 1 club then and Dewsbury and Donny as the bottom 2 championship ones?

Yep, I'd drop Keighley below the two promoted clubs.  Not that it has a material effect.

Seriously, I wouldn't let Wakefield loose on Cornwall (England's most westerly club, bizarrely included in the Eastern Conference).

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Spidey said:

As that would be the most sensible and fair outcome I expect the majority of clubs to not consider it

I'll be pushing it as much as I can where I can lol!

I suppose its just how you sell it to the various championship clubs with their own interests. Its a shame it has taken a fair few clubs withdrawing to end up at this position though.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Griff said:

Yep, I'd drop Keighley below the two promoted clubs.  Not that it has a material effect.

Seriously, I wouldn't let Wakefield loose on Cornwall (England's most westerly club, bizarrely included in the Eastern Conference).

Toulouse are, bizarrely, in the English championship, its not going to be perfect.

To save League 1 there are going to have to be some mismatches. That's just the reality of the situation now.

[Rovers13]

7 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

From what I know about why a combined Champ/L1 was rejected by championship clubs a few weeks ago, this is the main concerns and how they could be addressed.

1. The number 1 issue, as I understand, for most clubs was not being able to guarantee fixtures against the biggest drawing/best followed teams as they do now. 

2. Uncertainty on the number of fixtures. This is twofold. Firstly on the number of home games for the Club's benefit, and secondly on the overall number of fixtures and the impact that has on player contracts/payments. Clubs currently play 13 home, 13 away plus Summer Bash and any Cup fixtures.

3. Concerns over trips to Cornwall.

For me the solution, which encompasses everyone and helps in the new IMG world perhaps, is a combined league with Conferences. You play everyone in your conference home and away and everyone in the other conference once (that could be tinkered with though to manage the number of games). An ideal split of the biggest followings, ie Bradford and Widnes etc would be preferred, as well as keeping Toulouse and Cornwall separate. At such a late stage too the ability to be quite prescriptive with these conferences is there as well.

If we take the 22 current Championship and League 1 clubs, that leaves the obvious split of 2 x 11 team conferences.

To me at least the obvious way to sort clubs is a broad East vs West, this could give you something like this to start with:

WEST: Widnes, Barrow, Whitehaven, Workington, Swinton, Oldham, Rochdale, Midlands, North Wales, Toulouse, Halifax.

EAST: Bradford, Wakefield, York, Dewsbury, Batley, Featherstone, Hunslet, Doncaster, Sheffield, Keighley, Cornwall. 

Whilst on the face of it, East looks a fair bit stronger. It should be noted that with 3 of the current League 1 clubs being a part of it as well as the two most recently promoted sides, that "strength" can be decieving. Likewise the pros of being in that league are also balanced with having a guaranteed away trip to Cornwall as part of your fixtures. 

West seems to be all over the place but both conferences would offer some decent competition at least as a short term fix. 

Just to pee on your parade there is no summer bash lol. 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Rovers13 said:

Just to pee on your parade there is no summer bash lol. 

Well no worries there then!!

To maintain a 26 game season, each club plays their own conference home and away and 6 of the other conference once then!

[Rovers13]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Well no worries there then!!

To maintain a 26 game season, each club plays their own conference home and away and 6 of the other conference once then!

Conferences is Fair enough but how do you sort the play offs? Especially clubs in tougher conferences. Toulouse fax in West are nailed on top 2

Edited October 18, 2023 by Rovers13

[Griff]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Toulouse are, bizarrely, in the English championship, its not going to be perfect.

To save League 1 there are going to have to be some mismatches. That's just the reality of the situation now.

There are 22 clubs, potentially 42 fixtures, the clubs probably are going to plump for around 26.  That leaves 16 fixtures to be dropped.   Wakefield v Cornwall might be one of them.  Cornwall v Wakefield might be another.

There may still be mismatches but we can try to minimise them.

[Griff]

2 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

Conferences is Fair enough but how do you sort the play offs? Especially clubs in tougher conferences. 

There'll be play-offs if every team doesn't play every other team.

There are loads of options.