What would your plan for Wales, Ireland and Scotland be?

[Midlands hobo]

29 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Actually, it is.

"The objects of the Rugby Football League as set out in Constitution are:

(a) to foster, govern, develop, organise and manage the Game, in respect of all age groups, at all levels and for both sexes, in Great Britain and Ireland"

https://www.rugby-league.com/governance/customer-charter

How many development officers do they have in Scotland? Didn't they have them then cut them leaving the fledgling leagues to die

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

4 minutes ago, Midlands hobo said:

How many development officers do they have in Scotland? Didn't they have them then cut them leaving the fledgling leagues to die

Not sure on the current number, if any. I seem to recall funding being cut around the 2013 World Cup, so just as Scotland were having their most successful period on the pitch. I'm sure someone on here will be able to fill us in.

[Damien]

Just now, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Does 'hope' count as their current strategy?

The current strategy seems to be relying on heritage players so that the governing body can pat itself on the back when what is in effect an Irish England D u16s team draw with England Community u16s.

[Gomersall]

1 minute ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Not sure on the current number, if any. I seem to recall funding being cut around the 2013 World Cup, so just as Scotland were having their most successful period on the pitch. I'm sure someone on here will be able to fill us in.

JOKE ALERT.  There’s probably a queue around the block waiting to fill you in.

[Big Picture]

1 hour ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Definitely the case with the first part, but the second part isn't the case any more with the money these players can make in the NRL.

You don't seriously think they'll come over to go to the other side of the world do you?

[Damien]

Earlier this year I remember speaking to a RLI board member who moaned about Josh Thewlis being 'poached' by England. Yes this is English born Josh Thewlis who came through the English system and played Ireland u19s because they picked him. That is the attitude of the people running RLI. They did nothing to develop Josh Thewlis.

Any decent English lad playing for Ireland u16s and u19s will do exactly the same. Its all a complete sham that doesn't benefit the game in Ireland.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Damien

[londonrlfan]

46 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

You're right - it isn't. But at present, nothing meaningful is being done to grow the sport in these nations anyway. And - as much as it pains me to say it - without significant financial outlay it is never going to happen.

I wouldn't give either of them any money, until they start showing genuine youth development there. Otherwise it'll be wasted on getting more Aussie heritage players for a game of two. I'd rather money went to Nigeria, who have 2000 schoolkids learning and playing the sport. 

[londonrlfan]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

Earlier this year I remember speaking to a RLI board member who moaned about Josh Thewlis being 'poached' by England. Yes this is English born Josh Thewlis who came through the English system and played Ireland u19s because they picked him. That is the attitude of the people running RLI. They did nothing to develop Josh Thewlis.

Any decent English lad playing for Ireland u16s and u19s will do exactly the same. Its all a complete sham that doesn't benefit the game in Ireland.

Did you ask them about their plans for development? 

[Spidey]

RFL should fund these teams a bit. The bulk of players do play in RFL comps after all. Then France should host a Euro 4 nations

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

4 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

I wouldn't give either of them any money, until they start showing genuine youth development there. Otherwise it'll be wasted on getting more Aussie heritage players for a game of two. I'd rather money went to Nigeria, who have 2000 schoolkids learning and playing the sport. 

It's not a case of 'giving them money' - there's a responsibility of the RFL to develop the game in these nations.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

11 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

You don't seriously think they'll come over to go to the other side of the world do you?

What do you mean?

[londonrlfan]

Just now, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

It's not a case of 'giving them money' - there's a responsibility of the RFL to develop the game in these nations.

So what do the governing bodies do then? How comes other countries have managed to grow the sport without any help from the RFL? 

[Gomersall]

1 hour ago, Odsal Outlaw said:

I put this on another thread, but I’d have a Euro Champ B every year (Wales, France, Serbia +1 other) 

I appreciate the sentiment but people overrate Serbia. They were recently hammered at home by a French A team and then lost to the Netherlands. They would be in group C or even Group D if we want to give them competitive matches IMO.

[Big Picture]

7 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

What do you mean?

The difference between NRL pay and URC or Top14 pay wouldn't be enough to get Welsh players to move to Australia. 

[Damien]

17 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

Did you ask them about their plans for development? 

They have none. Their entire plan revolves around using heritage players and having 50/50 training sessions/trials split between Ireland and England with English coaches. Essentially 2 separate groups of players but much more favoured towards English players. And by training sessions/trials I'm talking about maybe 6 all year in Ireland.

I pretty much disagreed with everything I was told. I said all those sessions should be in Ireland. That picking heritage players, that already have chances to play for England, will only see Irish lads stop going to 'trials', which is what happened. The Irish lads were every bit as good as the English lads, including some of those on scholarships, but simply need training and experience.

I said that even if there aren't clubs at u16s and u19s level that those sessions should be much more regular and build to games even between those players. I also asked for much more activity between April - August when there is no RU. Coaches also need to be Irish based too because English based coaches, who don't even come to Ireland half the time for 'trials', does nothing to develop the game. Lads were literally picked for squads based on them playing amateur RL in England and thats it.

Pretty much everything that should happen didnt/doesn't and there are no plans to change that. There's heaps more but you get the gist.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Damien

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

13 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

So what do the governing bodies do then? How comes other countries have managed to grow the sport without any help from the RFL? 

Define 'growth'. Which countries have successfully grown the sport to the point at which they can field a competitive international team that isn't reliant on heritage players? I would argue none. 

[londonrlfan]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

They have none. Their entire plan revolves around using heritage players and having 50/50 training sessions split between Ireland and England with English coaches.

I pretty much disagreed with everything I was told. I said all those sessions should be in Ireland. That picking heritage players, that already have chances to play for England, will only see Irish lads stop going to 'trials', which is what happened. The Irish lads were every bit as good as the English lads, including some of those on scholarships, but simply need training and experience.

I said that even if there aren't clubs at u16s and u19s level that those sessions should be much more regular and build to games even between those players. I also asked for much more activity between April - August when there is no RU. Coaches also need to be Irish based too because English based coaches, who don't even come to Ireland half the time for 'trials', does nothing to develop the game. Lads were literally picked for squads based on them playing amateur RL in England and thats it.

Pretty much everything that should happen didnt/doesn't and there are no plans to change that. There's heaps more but you get the gist.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I expected. Yet the sport is happy to reward that it seems. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

6 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

The difference between NRL pay and URC or Top14 pay wouldn't be enough to get Welsh players to move to Australia. 

Are you talking about Welsh RU players? I'm talking about players who would have come through RL development pathways.

[londonrlfan]

Just now, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Define 'growth'. Which countries have successfully grown the sport to the point at which they can field a competitive international team that isn't reliant on heritage players? I would argue none. 

By growth I mean have a regular domestic competition, schools and youth development, have players from their country playing in other countries' domestic competition etc. It seems you base growth from the top downwards, rather than start from the bottom. That idea has got RL into the position it's now in. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

Just now, londonrlfan said:

By growth I mean have a regular domestic competition, schools and youth development, have players from their country playing in other countries' domestic competition etc.

Wales definitely have this. But they still don't have a competitive international team.

1 minute ago, londonrlfan said:

It seems you base growth from the top downwards, rather than start from the bottom.

Where on earth have you got that idea from? You obviously haven't read all of my posts on this thread.

[londonrlfan]

10 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Wales definitely have this. But they still don't have a competitive international team.

Where on earth have you got that idea from? You obviously haven't read all of my posts on this thread.

Having a competitive international team is the last thing that should be focused on. That's why RL has got itself into a position reliant on heritage players, as no groundwork was done before having internationals. 

I didn't say Wales don't have that. In fact in my first post I asked why they're always lumped in alongside Scotland and Ireland as a heritage.

You have to remember Wales is a small country and they're not a top side in any sport. So it shouldn't come as a surprise they're not a top side in RL either. They're a success as they produce their own players and are not reliant on heritage players, the same as PNG, Fiji, France. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

2 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

Having a competitive international team is the last thing that should be focused on.

But the whole gist of this thread is about what the international teams are doing, hence why people are talking about that. It doesn't mean people think it's the best way to develop the game in those nations.

[londonrlfan]

17 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

But the whole gist of this thread is about what the international teams are doing, hence why people are talking about that. It doesn't mean people think it's the best way to develop the game in those nations.

I said before they should step away from the top level and work on development first. It's highly unlikely either will make the next two WCs anyway, so they could spend the next decade building with genuine development, before returning to WCQ. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

11 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

I said before they should step away from the top level and work on development first. It's highly unlikely either will make the next two WCs anyway, so they could spend the next decade building with genuine development, before returning to WCQ. 

By 'they' who do you mean? There are so few people on the ground in these nations facilitating development work, that there isn't much they can actually achieve without the help/resources/finance of the RFL. If the RFL don't seriously invest in the development of these nations, then they're not going to be able to build a whole lot, even in a decade. Unfortunately, I think we both know that the RFL aren't going to be prioritising any investment in this area, mainly because they don't have a pot to piddle in and the lion's share of their annual income goes to the SL clubs.

[Midlands hobo]

7 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

I said before they should step away from the top level and work on development first. It's highly unlikely either will make the next two WCs anyway, so they could spend the next decade building with genuine development, before returning to WCQ. 

The crusaders produced a decent number of players who went on to play SL and international. In only a few small years, since it folded who come through?

Who at 16 is going to move north for the chance of playing RL when they can try for an academy position at the region's paying more than a championship player earns.

A decent international set up giving people the chance to pull on their nations shirt is a powerful motivation In the absence of a top flight academy. 

Even if "heartlands true fans" can't bear to think of a team from off the local bus route being in SL ahead of their precious grade C team chock full of third rate Australians playing in a rundown shack of a ground. Doesn't mean the development shouldn't be top down, be that international or SL