What would your plan for Wales, Ireland and Scotland be?

[welshmagpie]

Another year of inactivity for all three (barring Wales’ game against Cumbria).

What would you like to see for each nation in terms of tournaments available to them, fixtures etc?

I grow in worry that all 3 will slowly be frozen out of the international game due to the southern hemisphere dominance and England’s superiority. 

[Gomersall]

Wales meet full member of the IRL status whereas Scotland and Ireland don’t but for some reason are still recognised as such. The IRL will need to reassess some nations’ full member status sooner or later as they are now stipulating only full members can enter a WC qualification process. Questions are already being asked by other nations. This will limit the kind of tournaments Scotland and Ireland can enter. They do seriously need to organise games themselves outside of sanctioned competitions otherwise, as you say, they’ll fall off the radar if they’re not careful.

[Barley Mow]

48 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

Another year of inactivity for all three (barring Wales’ game against Cumbria).

What would you like to see for each nation in terms of tournaments available to them, fixtures etc?

I grow in worry that all 3 will slowly be frozen out of the international game due to the southern hemisphere dominance and England’s superiority. 

I'd just like them to organise and play matches!

The two main problems with the international game (especially if you just look at the northern hemisphere) is the gap in standard between countries and lack of money.

England are well ahead of France, France are well ahead of Serbia and Wales who are the next two in the rankings, etc.

Despite the gaps in standard, countries just need to play games - Greece, Malta, Serbia and the Netherlands have played the most RL matches of any countries this year - they've just got on with it and arranged fixtures for themselves.

Money is tight, but if these countries can do it, why can't Wales, Scotland and Ireland?

In the last month Wales' women and junior teams have travelled to France and Ireland - the funding exists for that, why not the men?

If Wales women in France is possible, then Scotland v Wales men should be with just hiring a ground, a bus and 1 night in a hotel.

Just organise and play some matches!

Edited November 5, 2023 by Barley Mow

[NRLandSL]

27 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

Another year of inactivity for all three (barring Wales’ game against Cumbria).

What would you like to see for each nation in terms of tournaments available to them, fixtures etc?

I grow in worry that all 3 will slowly be frozen out of the international game due to the southern hemisphere dominance and England’s superiority. 

I think there should be a European comp, the main two teams should be Wales and France, an England knights team could be involved and then either Serbia, Netherlands or Greece as the last team. I don’t at all rate the Irish and Scottish national teams, they are both heritage teams and feature very little domestic talent, in my eyes they should not be given any opportunity to play in a recognised competition.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

How much do Scotland play in cricket? I'm not a big cricket fan so don't know, I just know that Ireland are a test nation now so probably play more. I was just thinking how RL could end up with a similar international game to cricket where there is basically only one top level team in Europe and the rest on the other side of the world should these other European nations get essentially abandoned. 

[NRLandSL]

30 minutes ago, welshmagpie said:

I grow in worry that all 3 will slowly be frozen out of the international game due to the southern hemisphere dominance and England’s superiority. 

Wales will never be frozen out, there are only 3 other countries who have played the sport as long as wales, England, Australia and New Zealand. Wales have the ability to produce first grade talent and are one of only 7 recognised domestic national teams in the world. 

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

How much do Scotland play in cricket?

Quick check - looks like they've had around 20-25 senior men's internationals in 2023.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Quick check - looks like they've had around 20-25 senior men's internationals in 2023.

Fair enough, so smaller nations in that sport do still play a load of games then. Okay, let's get some bloody games organised! 

[Archie Gordon]

22 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

I'd just like them to organise and play matches!

The two main problems with the international game (especially if you just look at the northern hemisphere) is the gap in standard between countries and lack of money.

England are well ahead of France, France are well ahead of Serbia and Wales who are the next two in the rankings.

Despite the gaps in standard, countries just need to play games - Greece, Malta, Serbia and the Netherlands have played the RL most matches of any countries this year - they've just got on with it and arranged fixtures for themselves.

Money is tight, but if these countries can do it, why can't Wales, Scotland and Ireland?

In the last month Wales' women and junior teams have travelled to France and Ireland - the funding exists for that, why not the men?

If Wales women in France is possible, then Scotland v Wales men should be with just hiring a ground, a bus and 1 night in a hotel.

Just organise and play some matches!

The only difference I can think of for the examples you give vs a Wales men's team with a sprinkling of top pros is insurance costs.

EDIT: And, related, player availability. The Wales team vs Cumbria wasn't a great one IIRC.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Archie Gordon

[GeordieSaint]

Wales should be playing France every year. And more than once. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

As well as these other home nations organising fixtures, the RFL needs to put some proper investment in to them in accordance with their mission statement. Without some investment in to player pathways and the performance teams, the other home nations are never going to be anywhere near competing without a complete reliance on heritage players. Watching Wales Women play England Women yesterday, the gulf was obvious. They need to make playing for Wales/Ireland/Scotland as attractive as playing for England, in terms of level of fixtures. training/playing environment, remuneration etc.

If the RFL doesn't have the money/resources/inclination to do this, then I would revert the national team back to GB&I. At least that way, the occasional star Scots/Irish/Welsh player has an opportunity to play on the highest level without having to switch their allegiance to England (as per the likes of Eoin Morgan in cricket). Plus supporters of RL in those nations would have a top level team to support.

 

[GeordieSaint]

I think Scotland and Ireland are non-starters at that moment. They need some serious investment domestically. 

[Harry Stottle]

1 hour ago, welshmagpie said:

Another year of inactivity for all three (barring Wales’ game against Cumbria).

What would you like to see for each nation in terms of tournaments available to them, fixtures etc?

I grow in worry that all 3 will slowly be frozen out of the international game due to the southern hemisphere dominance and England’s superiority. 

Bring GB back and put all three back into qualification for that team for their players, who knows a born gem could be unearthed but under the present system they are assigned to play for a team in pointless competitions.

Of course come the world cup, people who grow daffodils, likes haggis or prefers Guinness will put their hand up to qualify for them, but is that really the point.

[Harry Stottle]

13 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

If the RFL doesn't have the money/resources/inclination to do this, then I would revert the national team back to GB&I. At least that way, the occasional star Scots/Irish/Welsh player has an opportunity to play on the highest level without having to switch their allegiance to England (as per the likes of Eoin Morgan in cricket). Plus supporters of RL in those nations would have a top level team to support.

Beat me to it Geek.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

12 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Of course come the world cup, people who grow daffodils, likes haggis or prefers Guinness will put their hand up to qualify for them, but is that really the point.

Those things aren't criteria for qualifying to play for these nations. I am one of the proudest Yorkshireman on the planet and yet I love all 3 of those things, should I get a game for any of those teams?

[Hopie]

Same as my plan for England, start at the bottom of the pyramid and not at the top. The strongest international teams for all the home nations include those born and/or developed in the southern hemisphere. So look into ways to get more people playing the game in schools and in junior club level here in our hemisphere, create pathways from these to regional academy for those interested/skilled enough and start producing pro players. It won't happen next week but its the only way to build a sustainable future.

[Harry Stottle]

14 minutes ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

Those things aren't criteria for qualifying to play for these nations. I am one of the proudest Yorkshireman on the planet and yet I love all 3 of those things, should I get a game for any of those teams?

Not far of being true though is it, I absolutely detest these qualification rules.

As an avid cricket fan and a very proud Lancastrian there was a time when (only once) I applauded YCC albeit finishing bottom of the county League they stuck to their principles - for a while at least till it became untenable - to only have players born within the Yorkshire county boundaries eligible to play for them,  to me they were the true county Champions even in finishing last place.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Harry Stottle

[NRLandSL]

40 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:

Wales should be playing France every year. And more than once. 

Yes, I have no idea why Wales and France aren’t playing each other right now, they are the only national teams not playing this offseason.

[Sports Prophet]

My plan would be to first put a long drawing defensive line to the north without tying up too much resources, in order to make a flanking attack into Wales from the north. 

As they move south, I would send a second forces from North Devon following a 24 hr bombardment of Swansea, taking the city before encircling Cardiff from the north east and west and securing the capital. 

After this, whilst still holding the line on the border with Scotland, I would reinforce supporters in Northern Ireland to advance southward whilst heavily bombarding Dublin with a sea and air power offensive, dropping parachute forces to the west of the city and seize power by capturing the capital.

With the Irish and Welsh restrained, this would leave an all out northern advance on Scotland as the final objective, targeting Edinburgh to wave the white flag as our forces encroach on the city.

[sam4731]

I wonder if having a Balkan Super League style competition for the 3 countries would benefit their player development.

[Barley Mow]

37 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

Yes, I have no idea why Wales and France aren’t playing each other right now, they are the only national teams not playing this offseason.

I agree that France v Wales would have been a sensible fixture for those countries to organise this October, and indeed every year when there isn't a tournament on.

France obviously played England (the next European country above them in the rankings) in April and Serbia (the next European country below them) at the end of September. You refer to the off-season, but for France what is the off-season? Catalans and Toulouse play from late February to early October and Elite 1, etc runs from October to early May. That isn't an excuse for not playing internationals - there was an international break for Catalans and Toulouse and there are gaps in the Elite 1 fixtures too. France did play in late September though, but as I say above, a fixture with Wales would also have made sense.

Wales aren't the only national team not playing - there are 27 of the countries who currently have an IRL ranking who haven't played a single game this year.

Three of them (Jamaica, Kenya & USA) are due to play in the next month, but that still leaves 24 who won't have played an international all year, Wales are one, but the group also includes Lebanon, Scotland, Ireland and Canada (who I would hope were playing regularly) and Turkey, Nigeria, Ghana, etc who had been making good progress recently at a lower level.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Barley Mow

[langpark]

2 hours ago, welshmagpie said:

I grow in worry that all 3 will slowly be frozen out of the international game due to the southern hemisphere dominance and England’s superiority. 

The lack of internationals by those three is not the worrying part, their lack of domestic activity however, is. 

Luke Keary wearing an Ireland shirt and Lachlan Coote for Scotland, just so we can tick some boxes, achieves nothing. 

[langpark]

18 minutes ago, sam4731 said:

I wonder if having a Balkan Super League style competition for the 3 countries would benefit their player development.

I see no need given their close proximity to England, better (and cheaper) to harness that. 

Teams entering the Challenge Cup, and Edinburgh playing in the N.E. League is a good start that needs to be further built upon. 

[jim_57]

Seeing as the ‘World Series’ is 2025 they’ll have to play each other in some form next year to decide a European entrant for that.

One them could be a warm up game for England then play a tournament against each other and France if they don’t go down for the Pacific Bowl. Maybe include a couple more as well.

- Wales has potential as ever but don’t have the strongest side at the moment. Definitely worth “helping” but probably not much point in them playing England currently.

- Ireland is a tricky one as they currently have a huge pool of eligible heritage players and could in theory be a decent opponent for England and stronger than France. I know heritage teams are frowned upon somewhat but if England are accepting tours from Tonga & Samoa isn’t exactly much different. Whether Ireland can get many/any of those heritage players on board outside of World Cup years is an entirely different matter and probably the main sticking point.

- Scotland have none of the above currently, they’ll always have a heritage pool but it is currently a fair bit weaker than Ireland’s.

[Gomersall]

1 hour ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

As well as these other home nations organising fixtures, the RFL needs to put some proper investment in to them in accordance with their mission statement. Without some investment in to player pathways and the performance teams, the other home nations are never going to be anywhere near competing without a complete reliance on heritage players. Watching Wales Women play England Women yesterday, the gulf was obvious. They need to make playing for Wales/Ireland/Scotland as attractive as playing for England, in terms of level of fixtures. training/playing environment, remuneration etc.

If the RFL doesn't have the money/resources/inclination to do this, then I would revert the national team back to GB&I. At least that way, the occasional star Scots/Irish/Welsh player has an opportunity to play on the highest level without having to switch their allegiance to England (as per the likes of Eoin Morgan in cricket). Plus supporters of RL in those nations would have a top level team to support.

 

So what scraps do Welsh, Irish and Scottish players who aren’t good enough for GB get?