What would your plan for Wales, Ireland and Scotland be?

[Gomersall]

19 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Firstly, Grace should've been picked instead of Blake Austin on the wing! Secondly - as some people have previously pointed out on here - if the GB relay team wins a gold at the Olympics, nobody cares if all the runners are English or not. Thirdly, whilst there may not be any non-English players in there at the moment, that may not always be the case. But sticking with England means that those players definitely won't be able to play, or will be forced to align themselves to England in order to play.

My preference would be strong home nations playing individually and frequently. But unfortunately the RFL has shown zero appetite to make this happen (despite development of the other home nations being in their mission statement). The full England side has played Scotland just once, and Ireland just twice - both as part of tournaments. The current situation is just for vanity - to make it look like the international game has more teams and more of a presence than it actually does. Either do it properly or don't bother.

Does anyone care that George Best never played in a World Cup finals?

[Midlands hobo]

The lions tour should be the pinnacle every 4 years with a junior GB "knights" type touring as well.

Regular Wales Scotland Ireland games with a 4th rotating. 

[Gomersall]

53 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

Serbia are already above the full Wales team in the IRL rankings and played against France this year. They might feel entitled to turn down a tour from the U20's team from a country ranked below them!

I’d take a full Wales team to batter a Serbia one every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Serbia are only above Wales because Wales hardly ever play.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

4 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

RL bring RL means we’ve never stuck with the things you mention so no consistency. Doing it properly means what exactly?

IMO a combination of things. Firstly, investing in the player pathways in those nations, by funding development officers to stimulate grass-roots competitions, and having age group rep teams (based in those nations - not reliant on junior heritage players), academies in the RFL academy comp, and possibly League 1 teams in each of those nations as well. Now I do have lots of other thoughts and could continue with other ideas, but we all know that there isn't any money available (or the desire) for the RFL to do this first step, so it pretty much renders everything else pointless. Expecting these nations with their meagre resources to be able to put out competitive international teams that aren't completely reliant on heritage players is just complete fantasy.

[Gomersall]

45 minutes ago, 17 stone giant said:

I'm also in favour of playing as GB.

If GB had been playing Tonga this autumn, there could have been a warm up game for Tonga against Wales. Or a game afterwards, whatever is best.

Or they could have played Wales v France as a curtain raiser before one of the tests. Or even before two or three of them if they wanted to make a series out of it. (obviously they'd have had to play the women's match elsewhere).

There's so many options. Have a summer event with some combination of Wales/France/Ireland/Scotland/England/Yorkshire/Lancashire. Currently GB/England don't have many options for matches in the summer, so come up with something.

Wales in particular (but also Scotland with Alan Tait and Fairburn, I think) have contributed a lot to the GB team in the past, so I want to celebrate that history and also try and encourage future Welsh players to play RL and hopefully represent GB. Without a GB team, I just feel that the top talent from Wales and Scotland will always be snaffled up by rugby union (e.g. Regan Grace has gone).

Ireland wouldn't be part of GB for me. If you include them, you have to go down the rugby union Lions route of not having an anthem a flag etc. Otherwise you're showing absolutely no respect to their inclusion.

So the first thing you do is take your new Welsh superstar out of the Wales team and expect the Welsh public to turn out and watch a team that has been depleted through no choice of their own?

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

3 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

Does anyone care that George Best never played in a World Cup finals?

Football is a completely different beast. If Super League unearthed a George Best-level superstar, then he'd currently have to make himself eligible for England in order to maximise his playing opportunities (as per Eoin Morgan in cricket). That or switch to rugby union.

[Barley Mow]

3 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

I’d take a full Wales team to batter a Serbia one every day of the week and twice on Sunday. Serbia are only above Wales because Wales hardly ever play.

Yes, that was in my mind when I wrote that post. That's why I said 'they might feel entitled' to turn a tour down rather than it confirms they are a better and should turn one down.

If Wales don't play though, they can't expect to be any higher in the rankings. Although the most recent ranks are (I believe) based on the three years to June or July this year - So Wales' participation at last year's world cup will have given them a major boost considering that the relative strength of opposition faced, and the importance of the matches (World Cup matches ranked top) play a part in calculating the ranks.

[Damien]

53 minutes ago, londonrlfan said:

That sums it up. There's obviously no interest in developing the sport there, so they need to stop being rewarded. Especially at expense of countries who are genuinely growing the game. 

I certainly don't think that Scotland or Ireland should be full members of the IRL. They've had more than enough chance to develop more meaningful domestic activity.

[Big Picture]

5 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Football is a completely different beast. If Super League unearthed a George Best-level superstar, then he'd currently have to make himself eligible for England in order to maximise his playing opportunities (as per Eoin Morgan in cricket). That or switch to rugby union.

They'd most likely switch to RU anyway.  Not only does RU offer a bigger, better and more legitimate International option, it has more money too.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

2 minutes ago, Gomersall said:

So the first thing you do is take your new Welsh superstar out of the Wales team and expect the Welsh public to turn out and watch a team that has been depleted through no choice of their own?

In what fantasy world are the Welsh public turning out in numbers to watch the current Wales team? Firstly, they hardly play any games in Wales. Secondly the last few games they have played in Wales have been very poorly attended.

Besides, in this example the Welsh public could follow their superstar in the Great Britain team. Welsh fans were allowed to watch and support GB when the likes of Jonathan Davies were playing. It's only the (relatively recent) switch to England playing all the big games that has alienated that (limited) fan base.

In an ideal world, Wales would be playing loads of well-attended games, with a high proportion of Welsh-born players. But as we've seen over the past 15-20 years, it just isn't going to happen. And there are no strategies in place that are going to make that situation a reality.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

Just now, Big Picture said:

Not only does RU offer a bigger, better and more legitimate International option, it has more money too.

Definitely the case with the first part, but the second part isn't the case any more with the money these players can make in the NRL.

[Damien]

Posts about 4 nations and GB tours completely miss the point. Its sticking plaster stuff built on sand that does nothing to develop the game in Ireland or Scotland.

[Dovster]

IMO GB should be assigned to the history books. It served it's purpose in helping to attract Welsh RU converts (To ensure they continued to play top International rugby). As we no longer are able to do this, we have no need for GB.

We complain that Aus and NZ don't wish to play against us (England) but do very little to help our neighbours. England Knights should be playing Wales at least once each year. England U16's/U18's should be playing Ireland, Scotland & Wales the same. 

[Odsal Outlaw]

I put this on another thread, but I’d have a Euro Champ B every year (Wales, France, Serbia +1 other) with the winner then facing England in the mid season test for the Euro Champ. This ensures England play the best of the rest each year but also ensures other nations play competitively with also a route to a Tier 1 nation to test themselves. Also gives credibility I think to each of those levels (Euro Champ C etc. can call in behind and promo/relegation between the levels)

With regards the RFL … let’s remember they are not the governing body in Scotland, Ireland or Wales. So it’s not their job to develop those nations. However, clearly they could help. The most obvious is Wales. For a relatively low level of funding a league 1 club in North and South Wales could be maintained which then provides a pathway for a nation which has continued to show willing and produce players.
 

Personally I think Wales and France are two nations the IRL should be targeting as both have the potential to produce good domestic based national teams. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Odsal Outlaw

[JonM]

4 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:

How much do Scotland play in cricket? I'm not a big cricket fan so don't know, I just know that Ireland are a test nation now so probably play more. I was just thinking how RL could end up with a similar international game to cricket where there is basically only one top level team in Europe and the rest on the other side of the world should these other European nations get essentially abandoned. 

Not really comparable. Ireland has test status in cricket Scotland has more people playing cricket than England has playing RL - they beat West Indies last year. Netherlands first win over a test nation was against Australia in the 1960s and have beaten England in the past, beat South Africa in the current world cup.

[londonrlfan]

15 minutes ago, Damien said:

Posts about 4 nations and GB tours completely miss the point. Its sticking plaster stuff built on sand that does nothing to develop the game in Ireland or Scotland.

Bringing back GB isn't going to grow the sport in Scotland and Ireland. I doubt any of them will even know or care about it either. 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

9 minutes ago, Dovster said:

We complain that Aus and NZ don't wish to play against us (England) but do very little to help our neighbours. England Knights should be playing Wales at least once each year. England U16's/U18's should be playing Ireland, Scotland & Wales the same. 

We should be playing our neighbours regularly, but it's not going to make a jot of difference to how competitive these nations are unless we invest in the grassroots and player development pathways. They just simply do not have the player pool to be competitive international teams without relying on heritage players.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

1 minute ago, londonrlfan said:

Bringing back GB isn't going to grow the sport in Scotland and Ireland. I doubt any of them will even know or care about it either. 

You're right - it isn't. But at present, nothing meaningful is being done to grow the sport in these nations anyway. And - as much as it pains me to say it - without significant financial outlay it is never going to happen.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

11 minutes ago, Odsal Outlaw said:

With regards the RFL … let’s remember they are not the governing body in Scotland, Ireland or Wales. So it’s not their job to develop those nations.

Actually, it is.

"The objects of the Rugby Football League as set out in Constitution are:

(a) to foster, govern, develop, organise and manage the Game, in respect of all age groups, at all levels and for both sexes, in Great Britain and Ireland"

https://www.rugby-league.com/governance/customer-charter

[Odsal Outlaw]

Just now, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Actually, it is.

"The objects of the Rugby Football League as set out in Constitution are:

(a) to foster, govern, develop, organise and manage the Game, in respect of all age groups, at all levels and for both sexes, in Great Britain and Ireland"

https://www.rugby-league.com/governance/customer-charter

Fair enough, I take that point back then I thought I recalled something from years ago where this was stated not to be the case - but I stand corrected.

Altho that would mean it’s also their job to develop it in England and they don’t do that either When we had the great days of sport England funding for development officers we really saw the benefit in my view and are still seeing that today with, for example, the Londoners in SL who are now just coming to the end of their careers.

[Damien]

1 minute ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

You're right - it isn't. But at present, nothing meaningful is being done to grow the sport in these nations anyway. And - as much as it pains me to say it - without significant financial outlay it is never going to happen.

It can certainly happen far better than it is now. Sure money helps but I'm not convinced more money would significantly change the flawed strategy being followed.

[Dovster]

10 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

We should be playing our neighbours regularly, but it's not going to make a jot of difference to how competitive these nations are unless we invest in the grassroots and player development pathways. They just simply do not have the player pool to be competitive international teams without relying on heritage players.

I agree. I don't think there needs to be a massive investment to begin with though and some of this could come from SL clubs. Arranging U16/18 training camps etc. The whole sport needs to be connected.

There already is a little interest in these countries and this could be encouraged by arranging the fixtures. These could be curtain raisers for big SL games.

We do need to start somewhere or we'll be having the same conversations again in another 10 years.

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

10 minutes ago, Dovster said:

We do need to start somewhere or we'll be having the same conversations again in another 10 years.

I don't want to spoil the surprise Dovster, but we were having these conversations, 10-20 years ago, and we will still be having them in 10 years' time 

[RugbyLeagueGeek]

22 minutes ago, Damien said:

It can certainly happen far better than it is now. Sure money helps but I'm not convinced more money would significantly change the flawed strategy being followed.

Does 'hope' count as their current strategy?

[Dovster]

2 minutes ago, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

I don't want to spoil the surprise Dovster, but we were having these conversations, 10-20 years ago, and we will still be having them in 10 years' time 

You haven't