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An interesting question for you all to answer


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18 replies to this topic

Poll: Does the franchise/licence system, that we have in Super League bring about an attitude that losing means really nothing? (38 member(s) have cast votes)

Does the franchise/licence system, that we have in Super League bring about an attitude that losing means really nothing?

  1. Yes (15 votes [39.47%])

    Percentage of vote: 39.47%

  2. No (23 votes [60.53%])

    Percentage of vote: 60.53%

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#1 Tommy The C5t

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 10:50 AM

Does the franchise/licence system, that we have in Super League bring about an attitude that losing means really nothing?



#2 Johnoco

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 11:58 AM

A year or 2 ago I would have said NO but now think it is the case that some teams don't, well not exactly 'not care' if they lose, but certainly not as much as if they were facing the possible boot.

#3 Padge

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 12:33 PM

QUOTE (Johnoco @ Jul 10 2010, 12:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
A year or 2 ago I would have said NO but now think it is the case that some teams don't, well not exactly 'not care' if they lose, but certainly not as much as if they were facing the possible boot.

Clubs still face the boot, winning is one way to help to avoid it.

I do wish people would really begin to understand how this works.

Salford last night at Wigan could have easily put the cue on the rack, they didn't. Don't think the scoreline shows a lack of effort from Salford, far from it they were committed for the full eighty.

Suggesting that players go out there not giving a sh!t about the result is a disgraceful insult and anyone that suggests it is the case should be ashamed of themselves.


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#4 Blind side johnny

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 01:33 PM


Clubs may get franchises but players don't. They still have new contracts to go for and any lack of effort on their part would endanger that.

As far as results in any particular season are concerned the presence of franchises means that they cease to become the be all and end all every year. This means that clubs can act more strategically, maybe in looking to expose and develop young English players in one year that will hopefully put them in good stead for future years and not break the bank on imports, trying to avoid relegation etc.

So my view is that what may be a strategy in operation is what may be seen by some to be complacency.


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#5 HappyDave

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 01:45 PM

QUOTE (Blind side johnny @ Jul 10 2010, 02:33 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Clubs may get franchises but players don't. They still have new contracts to go for and any lack of effort on their part would endanger that.


Very true.

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#6 Dave T

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 05:10 PM

You still had ###### teams around when P&R was in.

A poor team doesn't always equal a lack of effort.

#7 Padge

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 05:20 PM

QUOTE (Dave T @ Jul 10 2010, 06:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
You still had ###### teams around when P&R was in.

A poor team doesn't always equal a lack of effort.

He's angling for something or someone to blame his teams p!$$ poor performances on, he can't bring himself to blame the actual club for the state Bradford are in.




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#8 Tommy The C5t

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 05:45 PM

QUOTE (Padge @ Jul 10 2010, 06:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He's angling for something or someone to blame his teams p!$$ poor performances on, he can't bring himself to blame the actual club for the state Bradford are in.


I'm most certainly not.

It's something that myself and some Harlequins supporters were talking about at the game last night.



#9 Padge

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 05:49 PM

QUOTE (Tommy The C5t @ Jul 10 2010, 06:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm most certainly not.

It's something that myself and some Harlequins supporters were talking about at the game last night.

Is that not as in I'm not going to criticise refs anymore*









*same amount but not any more biggrin.gif

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#10 Tommy The C5t

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 05:51 PM

QUOTE (Padge @ Jul 10 2010, 06:49 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is that not as in I'm not going to criticise refs anymore*









*same amount but not any more biggrin.gif


Where did I criticise the referee about last night?


#11 deluded pom?

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 06:27 PM

I'd be interested to see what the lowest number of points have been won by the team finishing top since the advent of SLE and also which team has finished bottom with the highest number of points in the same timescale.

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#12 Johnoco

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 06:53 PM

QUOTE (Padge @ Jul 10 2010, 06:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
He's angling for something or someone to blame his teams p!$$ poor performances on, he can't bring himself to blame the actual club for the state Bradford are in.


But how much of it is chicken and egg? I can't believe that either Steve Mac would still be in charge or there would be so many inept performances if relegation was looming.

nb I'm not necessarily convinced one way or the other re: P&R

#13 Bitofaboogie

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 07:30 PM

The biggest problem for The Bulls is their fans.

As a city, Bradford has always been luke-warm about Rugby League - The Bulls had a purple patch when everything in the garden was rosy but now that the glory days are gone their speccies are disappearing fast and I cannot see this trend being reversed anytime soon.


#14 Padge

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 07:36 PM

QUOTE (deluded pom? @ Jul 10 2010, 07:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'd be interested to see what the lowest number of points have been won by the team finishing top since the advent of SLE and also which team has finished bottom with the highest number of points in the same timescale.

Highest points for a bottom club is 16, Catalan 2006.

Lowest points for a top club is 38, St. Helens 2007

Catalan have 8 points already this season at the bottom, 6 teams have finished with fewer points at the end of the season and 1 team with 8.


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#15 Padge

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 07:38 PM

QUOTE (Tommy The C5t @ Jul 10 2010, 06:51 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Where did I criticise the referee about last night?

Where did I say you did?

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#16 Johnoco

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Posted 10 July 2010 - 09:14 PM

QUOTE (Bitofaboogie @ Jul 10 2010, 08:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The biggest problem for The Bulls is their fans.

Why, do we pick the team or something?



#17 Bulliac

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 10:01 AM

To go slightly off at a tangent, though I think still on topic, I don't think it's the licence/franchise system which makes losing less important: it's the play-offs. The "business end" of the season, is how the coaches refer to them, and it is clearly more important than the preceding league games. As long as you're in a decent position the odd game doesn't matter because you can pull it back in the play-offs. To me the system engenders an attitude of mind that league games aren't all that important which shouldn't be true, though, to me, it seems self evident.
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#18 Bulliac

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 10:41 AM

QUOTE (Bitofaboogie @ Jul 10 2010, 08:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The biggest problem for The Bulls is their fans.

As a city, Bradford has always been luke-warm about Rugby League - The Bulls had a purple patch when everything in the garden was rosy but now that the glory days are gone their speccies are disappearing fast and I cannot see this trend being reversed anytime soon.

The current average of eight to nine thousand compares favourably to what was being achieved back in the winter days, so considering the playing record this year, I class that as an improvement. The glory fans did make a big contribution though when we were winning, but it was always inevitable that they would fall away; the 'glory fans' have disappeared but the 'supporters' remain.

I think in most large cities, getting and retaining spectators isn't easy, let's face it there is no shortage of alternative things to do, and if the side isn't doing well the truly less interested will always find something else to pass their time. Plus a change.

I think, as a fairly long standing supporter, I'm allowed to say that the SL years have actually been an aberration to a norm in which we've generally been a middling side, over the years. We've had our ups and downs, like many others, with 1996 - 2005 being outstandingly successful on the field. Though this has, in many ways, turned out to be built on sand with the sound of pigeons coming home to roost taking over from the noise of 15K plus crowds.

So the money went and playing fortunes hit a downward spiral, after the 'glory years' of paying fines for overspending and posting huge losses on the accounts, we now no longer pay the full cap. Of course, to some it's all the coaches fault, as if he'd actually that decided he didn't want the Fieldens, Hapes and Vainikolos etc, who had really gone 'cos we couldn't afford them any more. Or, alternatively it's the current chairman's fault. Peter Hood who took over after the money had been spent and who was bequeathed a legacy of debt. The bloke is a fan of the club, a supporter (who, incidentally, according to the accounts doesn't even take a wage for being chairman), he must be a big fan to put up with all the problems heaped on his shoulders.

I think the stay away fans are a problem, not the main one, but one we could do without. I think waiting for the new coach to be appointed is another distraction so the sooner that is over the better. I hope he has a bit better luck than Stevie Mac!

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#19 Amber Avenger

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Posted 11 July 2010 - 04:41 PM

QUOTE (Bitofaboogie @ Jul 10 2010, 08:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
The biggest problem for The Bulls is their former fans.


Edited for accuracy. Whilst your points about the city are true, it's certainly not the fault of the fans who currently pump money into the club on a fortnightly basis.
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