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Is the Challenge Cup worth it?


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#21 hindle xiii

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Posted 13 August 2010 - 08:38 PM

QUOTE (Jerry the Berry @ Aug 13 2010, 09:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
GF finals decline? huh.gif

Ever since 2005. cool.gif

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#22 TheObserver

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 04:57 AM

QUOTE (thirteenthman @ Aug 14 2010, 03:54 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I agree about the history and tradition. It certainly should still be regarded along side the SL GF in terms of importance. Just because one was started over 100 years ago and the other only started in 1998 doesn't make one more important than the other.

However, there's very little romance about the cup nowadays, and it certainly doesn't 'offer all clubs the chance to succeed'. And last weekend we saw a semi-final played out between Leeds and Saints in a ground only three-quarters full. While an appearance in the final will bring out the casual fan (Warrington's full of them at the moment), the rounds that lead up to it can struggle to gain attention.


The Challenge Cup Final offers a great occasion. It gives a great day out in London for the fans, clubs want to win it. However, perhaps the knockout format needs a rethink. Most clubs succeed largely by the luck of the draw, and some benefit by getting an easier run to later rounds. In this full time era, the prospect of upsets is minimal. From 2002 to 2010, in 102 ties between SL clubs and semi pro/amateur teams (NL/Championship):
* SL clubs - won 98
* NL/Ch/amateur - won 4
Average margin - 40 points

In ties between semi pro and amateur clubs:
* semi pro clubs - won 71
* amateur clubs - won 2
Average margin - 39 points.

#23 rugby female

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 05:11 AM

QUOTE (Kol @ Aug 13 2010, 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is the CC really worth winning? IMO it's a great day out and it's more of a social occasion than seeing my team win this competition as I dont think its worth much.

Sure it gets our game exposure in the BBC, but even so; has that made a real difference over the years the Beeb have had it?

SL final means much more and I really sense that amongst the fans.

Am I wrong?


If you are asking the question, then you surely aren't a 'true' RL fan?!!!!

I have been to the CC Final for the last 25yrs+, whichever venue it has been played. No matter which teams are playing. But that is the beauty and pleasure of it, all fans/clubs getting together for the wk end and celebrating all that is R.L and R.L friendship?!!

#24 1976PMJwires

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 06:35 AM

QUOTE (Jerry the Berry @ Aug 13 2010, 09:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
GF finals decline? huh.gif



My comments based on a 10k drop in 3 years

see link to back my comments.

http://en.wikipedia....gue_Grand_Final



#25 Wilderspoolmemories

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 07:25 AM

QUOTE (Kol @ Aug 13 2010, 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is the CC really worth winning? IMO it's a great day out and it's more of a social occasion than seeing my team win this competition as I dont think its worth much.

Sure it gets our game exposure in the BBC, but even so; has that made a real difference over the years the Beeb have had it?

SL final means much more and I really sense that amongst the fans.

Am I wrong?

For all the memories from last year(and hopefully again this year)then yes it's definately worth it!
2009 Warrington 25 Hudderfield 16
2010 Warrington 30 Leeds 6
2011 League Leaders Shield Winners
2012 Warrington 35 Leeds 18

Challenge cups and league leaders shields everywhere! We need more silver polish!

#26 1976PMJwires

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 09:19 AM

QUOTE (Kol @ Aug 13 2010, 05:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Is the CC really worth winning? IMO it's a great day out and it's more of a social occasion than seeing my team win this competition as I dont think its worth much.

Sure it gets our game exposure in the BBC, but even so; has that made a real difference over the years the Beeb have had it?

SL final means much more and I really sense that amongst the fans.

Am I wrong?


Maybe this might help

Link:- http://www.liverpool...00252-27059348/

#27 Keith T

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 03:44 PM

QUOTE (rugby female @ Aug 14 2010, 06:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If you are asking the question, then you surely aren't a 'true' RL fan?!!!!

I have been to the CC Final for the last 25yrs+, whichever venue it has been played. No matter which teams are playing. But that is the beauty and pleasure of it, all fans/clubs getting together for the wk end and celebrating all that is R.L and R.L friendship?!!


But from my experience the numbers of similar fans from Championship and Championship 1 teams is getting less year on year. There used to be several such trips from west Cumbria to the CC Final but now you are lucky if a mini-bus goes and I'm sure that will be repeated elsewhere from lower league clubs.

Lower league clubs can't even look for a good pay day getting drawn against a SL team any more as the SL club fans don't wish to pay for an uneven contest in most cases. So from where I stand, a lower league club supporter, is the CC worth it my answer has to be not really.

Edited by Keith T, 14 August 2010 - 03:45 PM.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#28 Odsal Outlaw

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 06:05 PM

The Challenge Cup is brilliant, we've played in it the last two years and its genuinley been one of the highlights of playing RL for me. Making the second round this year was great. Realistically we can never win it, but the third round is probably the equivalent of a cup final for an amateur team and hopefully next year we might do it!!

The cup does throw up the odd shock, but more importantly it gets 80k people at Wembley live on the BBC showcasing our great sport.


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#29 Bitofaboogie

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 06:15 PM

The problem isn't the final, which is still a great occasion and a win is still worth a great deal to clubs, players and speccies alike. The problem is the rest of the competition which has definitely lost a great deal in terms of drama and romance. Not sure what can be done about it though - it's just a sign of the times, when people turn out and spend money they expect a big occsasion and the cup rounds just don't fit the bill anymore.


#30 thirteenthman

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 06:19 PM

QUOTE (Keith T @ Aug 14 2010, 04:44 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But from my experience the numbers of similar fans from Championship and Championship 1 teams is getting less year on year. There used to be several such trips from west Cumbria to the CC Final but now you are lucky if a mini-bus goes and I'm sure that will be repeated elsewhere from lower league clubs.

Lower league clubs can't even look for a good pay day getting drawn against a SL team any more as the SL club fans don't wish to pay for an uneven contest in most cases. So from where I stand, a lower league club supporter, is the CC worth it my answer has to be not really.

That's what I was driving at in my earlier post in reply to someone mentioning the 'romance' of the cup. Most good cup runs by smaller clubs are down to favourable draws. No one can debate the value of winning the cup, but the competition as a whole is not what is once was.

The Sheffield v Wigan final of 1998 is always mentioned as one the greatest shocks in cup history. It was, as I, and most other people there that day expected a Wigan win. In 1998 Sheffield finished 8th in SL with Wigan winning the GF, so should 8th beating 1st really be classed as a shock? I guess it shows up the problems of inequality in RL which, despite what the RFL might tell us, has not been solved by the salary cap.

I was talking to my next door neighbour the other day, and he said that although he goes to the GF, the CC will always be the competition he wants Warrington to win. Of course, if Warrington hadn't won the CC last year but won the GF instead, he might have thought differently.



#31 goldcard

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 06:47 PM

Pre the summer era, Sky running the show, if 2 sides met 2 weeks on the trot, as did happen a lot, the cup tie would have the bigger gate of the 2 games.
Something has taken the appeal out of the early rounds, it's not just the cash to get in, there's I think a knock-on effect from soccer that the league is everything.
Cup gates at soccer are pretty dire too.

So, that bit said, the actual competion is still worth it from the extra money generated from getting sponsors' names on tv, and the merchandising sales a cup run generates.
In the 90's a winning score was declared "the million pound try" in a semi, cos that was what a cup final appearance, at the time, was potentially worth to a club.
The competition has so much prestige, history, an aura about it.
A true fan knows, deep down, Wembley is what this game has at the pinnacle, and the Challenge Cup.
The Premiership has gone, the Regal has gone, the county cups have gone (the Captain Morgan was a 1 season wonder), the BBC2 Flootlit trophy has gone.
1 knock-out competition remains, and with good and proud reason.
It's the best knock-out competition in the game.
Look and compare not just the fans, but the players' faces at the hooter in a semi-final.
It means everything...

It's worth it in Spades.

Edited by goldcard, 14 August 2010 - 07:25 PM.

Wires record breaking 10 match run: L 16-17 ; L 34-36 ; L 24-44 ; L 20-38 ; L 8-46; L 14-26 ; L 20-40 ; L 22-48 ; L 14-20 ; L 8-60. Thanks Jimmy.The Glamour Club. Apparently.
Captain Morgan Trophy Holders.(I still think we have the British Coal 9's trophy hidden somewhere, too...)
Ooooh, the Challenge Cup!!! Thank you Tony.....
And again!!!Posted Image
Tipping Competiton Challenged Shield Winner 2010

#32 hindle xiii

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 06:55 PM

The play-offs themselves, bar the Grand Final, hardly draw big crowds either.

It's pretty much any game at home that isn't covered by your season ticket which draws a less than spectacular attendance.

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#33 tim2

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Posted 14 August 2010 - 07:24 PM

We live outside the heartlands and quite a few people from our club are going to Wembley.
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