By what benchmark should we gauge RL's success or failure?

[EssexRL]

All professional and semi professional clubs need to get their crowds rising every year along with their cash turnover and profit.

They do need proper business plans to reach the above goals.

I guess this illustrates my point. Do we know what a reasonable target for, say L1, should be? The 100 at All Golds doesn't seem great but what should the benchmark be? 300? 500? 1000? The same applies to other leagues. Locally I think Skolars for instance should be at least on a par with good non league teams round here like Clapton or Enfield. This suggests we need an extra 200 or so through the gates. (This should not be the only measure of success though).

[Sports Prophet]

You can benchmark any parameter. You can say media coverage, sponsorship, viewing figures, stadia size, pie sales whatever. The key areas that I think will determine a sport's strength would be far more generic topics.

Revenue and Profit: leagues and clubs.

Customer Satisfaction: eg crowds figures, player and volunteer registrations, viewing figures.

Availability: eg club locations, coverage, dilution

The benchmarks must include:

- Direct competitors in your target market. FA, RFU, ECB, F1, LTA through to BBA, UKIH, Athletics UK etc

- Similar products in international markets of a similar cultures. NRL.

Objectively, RL would rank considerbly well against most UK competitors and reasonably well against its international counterpart the NRL.

The shortcomings I think you would find when compared to Football, Cricket and RU should definitely represent opportunities for the sport to target for improvement. This will only come with suitable leadership and governance.

For the best part of it, I feel the leadership of the RFL is not delivering a suitable improvement in areas of weakness. I feel any success delivered by the current management is off the back of traditional strengths and is due rather to evolution than their own endeavours.

For me the sport of Rugby League has not progressed in the UK enough in the last eight years to warrant the retention of existing leadership. Unfortunately the powers that be who are responsible for electing the leadership in my opinion are not benchmarking the performance of the leadership team against suitable parameters.

[Oxford]

You can benchmark any parameter. You can say media coverage, sponsorship, viewing figures, stadia size, pie sales whatever. The key areas that I think will determine a sport's strength would be far more generic topics.

Revenue and Profit: leagues and clubs.

Customer Satisfaction: eg crowds figures, player and volunteer registrations, viewing figures.

Availability: eg club locations, coverage, dilution

The benchmarks must include:

- Direct competitors in your target market. FA, RFU, ECB, F1, LTA through to BBA, UKIH, Athletics UK etc

- Similar products in international markets of a similar cultures. NRL.

Objectively, RL would rank considerbly well against most UK competitors and reasonably well against its international counterpart the NRL.

The shortcomings I think you would find when compared to Football, Cricket and RU should definitely represent opportunities for the sport to target for improvement. This will only come with suitable leadership and governance.

For the best part of it, I feel the leadership of the RFL is not delivering a suitable improvement in areas of weakness. I feel any success delivered by the current management is off the back of traditional strengths and is due rather to evolution than their own endeavours.

For me the sport of Rugby League has not progressed in the UK enough in the last eight years to warrant the retention of existing leadership. Unfortunately the powers that be who are responsible for electing the leadership in my opinion are not benchmarking the performance of the leadership team against suitable parameters.

That's a really good assessment sporty!

 

I think the evolutionary model provides too much stay as you are and dont take risks and never gamble. The Toronto and Toulouse ventures would seem to fly in the face of this but putting them in the third tier is as much about appealing to the tradtionalists as it is damage limitation if it goes wrong. Clever though that is it is more remarkable they've done it at all.

[The Parksider]

For the best part of it, I feel the leadership of the RFL is not delivering a suitable improvement in areas of weakness. I feel any success delivered by the current management is off the back of traditional strengths and is due rather to evolution than their own endeavours.

For me the sport of Rugby League has not progressed in the UK enough in the last eight years to warrant the retention of existing leadership. Unfortunately the powers that be who are responsible for electing the leadership in my opinion are not benchmarking the performance of the leadership team against suitable parameters.

 

We can't make people play RL and we can't make people watch it and it's hard anyway to grow and expand from a small base, against bigger opposition/competition - sometimes it is an achievement to stand still when the odds are stacked against you.

 

I see no way in which we can set "realisable" targets as generalisations. I think there are things we can do and should do and even then failure of these things may not mean any other leadership could do better. It's sport and often you change the manager in hope and find dissapointment.

 

We are always looking for these mystery people who will take the game to places I don't think it can go. As I say the best club management team has over 10 years delivered falling crowds and less quality local players from their feted academy,

[Oxford]

We can't make people play RL and we can't make people watch it and it's hard anyway to grow and expand from a small base, against bigger opposition/competition - sometimes it is an achievement to stand still when the odds are stacked against you.

 

I see no way in which we can set "realisable" targets as generalisations. I think there are things we can do and should do and even then failure of these things may not mean any other leadership could do better. It's sport and often you change the manager in hope and find dissapointment.

 

We are always looking for these mystery people who will take the game to places I don't think it can go. As I say the best club management team has over 10 years delivered falling crowds and less quality local players from their feted academy,

Hello Parky,

Have you joined this thread good one isn't it?

 

I am disappointed only in that I never took you for a "Pull up the draw bridge the Vikings are coming!" Sorry Widnes fans!

 

Most of the changes that take place are either well planned for or completely unexpected but asking for nothing gets you just that, and demanding nothing and venturing nothing do pretty much the same!

[The Parksider]

 "Pull up the draw bridge the Vikings are coming!" 

 

What's your point please.

[Oxford]

What's your point please.

Parky, good one! It's not opaque, hidden or disguised in what I said. Good to know which side you're on, means more good conversations!

[Bob8]

It may of been mentioned on here before but for me the best comparison we can make is with boxing and mma. I've watched mma for years back when the ufc was on bravo free to view with the basic sky/cable package. Back then nobody in the street could of told you the name of any mma fighter,the sport was peecived by the boxing community as un sportsman like,brutal and in alot of states in the US it was bannned. Sound familiar?

The rfl should be looking at the mms/ufc model and taking note. Look at the success of the sport now. It has famous fighters, massive pay per view figures and I would say most people in the genral public have heard about it or seen a fight or two. Compare that to boxing and apart from the very recent heavy weight fights there hasn't been alot of exciting, popular fights in a long time.

Mma has come so far in such a relatively short time and from a very similar background to rugby league it's my view that big steps can be made with a good product and good management.

 

The decline of boxing and rise of MMA has a few factors.  Increasingly, it reflects that sport is becoming less something people participate in and more something they watch.  Boxing is he better participation sport, but MMA realizes that people prefer to see a spectacle.

 

If rugby league wishes to be a bigger participation sport, it has to continue to be as soft as it is (and I have taken up boxing and it is far, far easier on the body than rugby league; the sport is not soft at all).

[The Parksider]

Parky, good one! It's not opaque, hidden or disguised in what I said. 

 

Believe me it is. Please try to be clearer on your points.

[Oxford]

Believe me it is. Please try to be clearer on your points.

Please try not to be so obvious in your strategies Parky, move on and try something new. You can and do do much better than this!

 

 

"The decline of boxing and rise of MMA has a few factors.  Increasingly, it reflects that sport is becoming less something people participate in and more something they watch.  Boxing is he better participation sport, but MMA realizes that people prefer to see a spectacle."

 Bob I think there are many reasons for this changing demand and not just a spectacle element, some of them may relate more to a growing need for greater and greater violence and bloodletting sadly!

 

Looking at what attracts the young as one facet of the RL marketing strategy is very much a way forward!

[Bob8]

Please try not to be so obvious in your strategies Parky, move on and try something new. You can and do do much better than this!

 

 

"The decline of boxing and rise of MMA has a few factors.  Increasingly, it reflects that sport is becoming less something people participate in and more something they watch.  Boxing is he better participation sport, but MMA realizes that people prefer to see a spectacle."

 Bob I think there are many reasons for this changing demand and not just a spectacle element, some of them may relate more to a growing need for greater and greater violence and bloodletting sadly!

 

Looking at what attracts the young as one facet of the RL marketing strategy is very much a way forward!

That is why I mentioned it was one of a few factors. 

 

MMA does not have the need for that many participants.  It is a show for television.  The acceptance of greater brutality and bloodletting is because it is not something they see themselves doing, so prefer to woop and howl at others.  I see the comparison, but I would argue that as RL must be a major participation sport, we have to strike more of a balance.

[Oxford]

That is why I mentioned it was one of a few factors. 

 

MMA does not have the need for that many participants.  It is a show for television.  The acceptance of greater brutality and bloodletting is because it is not something they see themselves doing, so prefer to woop and howl at others.  I see the comparison, but I would argue that as RL must be a major participation sport, we have to strike more of a balance.

I think you're mistaken in your estimation of why brutality is becoming embedded in society. I think for lots of people this has become a way of life and a way of dealing with any difficulty and issue. I think that computer games may have an important role in this as they are driven to further and further excess models. etc etc etc

 

 

RL has to use its assets as a sport, link these to modern trending and analyse how to do it all again tomorrow!

[Bob8]

I think you're mistaken in your estimation of why brutality is becoming embedded in society. I think for lots of people this has become a way of life and a way of dealing with any difficulty and issue. I think that computer games may have an important role in this as they are driven to further and further excess models. etc etc etc

 

 

RL has to use its assets as a sport, link these to modern trending and analyse how to do it all again tomorrow!

Again, it is on the screen.

 

Fight Club was a big film, touching on the idea that there was an increasing need for men to express their masculinity in a brutal fashion.  The idea had columnists scribbling.  Those people did not spend much time trying to recruit people to play rugby, there is a huge gap between watching and doing.  I do not play rugby league anymore and have taken up boxing, increasingly though, I realize that I am far from typical.

 

I do agree that was constitutes a brutal spectacle has changed and increased.  However, I would tie that in again to the fact that spectators relate less and less to the people taking part.  That makes it seem more remote.

 

The two extremes of entertainment participate would be the film industry (very few participants, but huge viewership) and sport (huge participation and large viewership).  Increasingly, modern sport is becoming more like the film industry in this respect, which is why MMA is succeeding well at this time. 

 

Edit to add:  I realize that this reads like I do not understand your point.  I do.  When the sport is introduced to a new area of the Western world, I think it is good to pitch it as an "Extreme team sport".  Then target it to people who are looking for the biff (a challenge in Scandinavia, where a punch-up in a game will horrify a mainstream audience). 

 

This though is when you targeting a niche that the traditional sports have not yet taken.  For Toronto, the extreme nature might well be a good selling point, as they have to get a large audience.  However, if you also want the sport to be a mass participation sport, you have to find a balance.

[Oxford]

"I realize that this reads like I do not understand your point"

 

No, it just looks like you want to argue your side and get your points across!

 

I wish everyone saw this as the point to a forum.

 

Your point about telly and the sport is well put but if RL can make more of itself by relying on certain attributes rather than others so be it!

[Futtocks]

There's been a lot of talk over the last 10-20 years from MMA fans that it is overtaking boxing, but the big events in the latter sport still generate far more interest among people I know. And that seems also to go for the amount of comment in the printed and broadcast media.

 

Now, we all know that media attention can be affected by generous corporate hospitality (in other words, free alcohol and other perks) as well as the journalists' and proprietors' personal prejudices, but still, I don't yet quite buy into the MMA hard sell.

 

it is a bit like hearing several hundred sports or pastimes puff themselves up by claiming they are "the fastest-growing sport in the country", while realising that only one of them can actually be telling the truth. You just go "Yeah, whatever. Prove it, if you still exist next year.".

[Bob8]

There's been a lot of talk over the last 10-20 years from MMA fans that it is overtaking boxing, but the big events in the latter sport still generate far more interest among people I know. And that seems also to go for the amount of comment in the printed and broadcast media.

 

Now, we all know that media attention can be affected by generous corporate hospitality (in other words, free alcohol and other perks) as well as the journalists' and proprietors' personal prejudices, but still, I don't yet quite buy into the MMA hard sell.

 

it is a bit like hearing several hundred sports or pastimes puff themselves up by claiming they are "the fastest-growing sport in the country", while realising that only one of them can actually be telling the truth. You just go "Yeah, whatever. Prove it, if you still exist next year.".

In the USA, MMA is ahead of boxing (it seems to me).  At the moment, there are many top class British boxers, while American boxing is poor.  Americans take this as world boxing being poor.  In the USA, no boxer has the profile of Rhonda Rousey or Conor MacGregor. 

[Futtocks]

In the USA, MMA is ahead of boxing (it seems to me).  At the moment, there are many top class British boxers, while American boxing is poor.  Americans take this as world boxing being poor.  In the USA, no boxer has the profile of Rhonda Rousey or Conor MacGregor. 

Floyd Mayweather?

 

To be honest, there are a lot more non-USA world champions than usual right now. Some of this is down to the collapse of Communism allowing Eastern Bloc boxers to go professional. But if a new big American star comes along, the pay-per-view revenues will go through the roof.

[Bob8]

Floyd Mayweather?

 

To be honest, there are a lot more non-USA world champions than usual right now. Some of this is down to the collapse of Communism allowing Eastern Bloc boxers to go professional. But if a new big American star comes along, the pay-per-view revenues will go through the roof.

I would include Floyd Mayweather.  I did give it a great deal of thought.  For the last two world heavyweight bouts, I was not able to watch them in a bar anywhere.  Consider that Anthony Joshua was against Charles Martin - not a huge star by any measure, but American and held the IBF title.

 

The lack of American champios has had a big effect, but Conor MacGregor is the biggest star and Irish.

[Oxford]

The benchmark of success would be if RL's biggest department at Red Hall or Media City by a long way was marketing and sales!

 

 

Which it already should be!

[RabbitRhinoovOZ]

I would include Floyd Mayweather.  I did give it a great deal of thought.  For the last two world heavyweight bouts, I was not able to watch them in a bar anywhere.  Consider that Anthony Joshua was against Charles Martin - not a huge star by any measure, but American and held the IBF title.

 

The lack of American champios has had a big effect, but Conor MacGregor is the biggest star and Irish.

G'day Bob,

 

Floyd has retired so not really a fair comparison. Any way until a MMA fighter can match the numbers Floyd did then there still small time (In comparison) in my opinion. 4.8 millions pay per views sold for Mayweather v Alvarez now that's big time by anyone's standards. 

[Oxford]

The benchmark of success would be if RL's biggest department at Red Hall or Media City by a long way was marketing and sales!

 

 

Which it already should be!

[Bob8]

G'day Bob,

 

Floyd has retired so not really a fair comparison. Any way until a MMA fighter can match the numbers Floyd did then there still small time (In comparison) in my opinion. 4.8 millions pay per views sold for Mayweather v Alvarez now that's big time by anyone's standards. 

That is why I pondered it for a while.  

The fact is that the fighter who gave me the most pause is retired.