WCC Scheduling

[Allora]

Is there any event or game we do not criticise or find fault with in our game?

Maybe we get the Sport we deserve.

[Dave T]

10 minutes ago, Allora said:

Is there any event or game we do not criticise or find fault with in our game?

Maybe we get the Sport we deserve.

That's a rather strange viewpoint. 

If people just kept quiet about stuff then nowt would ever change. 

Genuine, simple question:

Would a 9am Saturday kick off in the UK be better or worse than the 9am Friday kick off that is planned?

[Dave T]

12 minutes ago, Allora said:

Is there any event or game we do not criticise or find fault with in our game?

Maybe we get the Sport we deserve.

The attitude of 'it is what it is' because 'we live on a globe' is far more harmful.

Accepting poor things is wrong.

[Allora]

Just now, Dave T said:

The attitude of 'it is what it is' because 'we live on a globe' is far more harmful.

Accepting poor things is wrong.

When the game is played in England I do not believe any consideration was ever given at all to the time it was shown in Australia.

It did not bother me at all, I either chose to get up at ungodly hour, recorded it or did not bother with it.

This time its in Melbourne and they are playing it when it suits them and their media partners and there is outrage from a few fans on a small Rugby League forum....

Plenty of people accept poor or average things, you could argue that case for Super League.

 

[Allora]

15 minutes ago, Dave T said:

That's a rather strange viewpoint. 

If people just kept quiet about stuff then nowt would ever change. 

Genuine, simple question:

Would a 9am Saturday kick off in the UK be better or worse than the 9am Friday kick off that is planned?

I doubt the organisers care, they do what fits for them, same as the UK teams do when its played there.

Do you know that any thought was given to the Australian time zone when played in the UK?

 

[Dave T]

[JoneslessBishop]

16 minutes ago, Dave T said:

That's a rather strange viewpoint. 

If people just kept quiet about stuff then nowt would ever change. 

Genuine, simple question:

Would a 9am Saturday kick off in the UK be better or worse than the 9am Friday kick off that is planned?

I think we all agree Dave, but given Channel Nine got this after the other games were est up, they didn’t want to compete with the games on Fox, and given Melbourne have bent everyone over a barrel on this they felt they could just go ahead and schedule when they think they’ll get the best crowd.

Wood has gone, the WCC is a club comp so makes sense the new SL board will organize going forward. Lenagan and Pearson have shown an appetite for SL nRL games and Heitherington has piled out the stops to make sure the game happens this year. In the new SL board clubs will be accountable to each other, and Pearson has emphasized the need to push our products more confidently. Let’s hop that means we have far better planning and engagement going forward. 

[The Great Dane]

8 hours ago, Dave T said:

TGD - can I ask where you get your figures from? Not sure what the source is over there. Are you sure the 25-30k number was for WCC and not the SL games that were shown?

Also, what was the number for the game that Roosters staged in 2014?

Media Week is my preferred source as they are pretty comprehensive when it comes to sport- https://twitter.com/MediaweekAUS 

Sometimes I use Tv tonight but they only publish the numbers for each channel and the highest rated program for the day normally- https://tvtonight.com.au/category/ratings 

On occasion I'll just go straight to the source and use OzTam, but OzTam only keep the last couple of years of data readily available to the public and it can sometimes be hard to find what you are looking for if you don't know exactly which report it is in- http://www.oztam.com.au/

The threads on ratings on League Unlimited can be good too as they generally compile most of the data on RL events, and most of the stuff on there is from Media Week too. 

The problem with the WCC/WCS is finding it I'm afraid, some years I think weren't even broadly published (well apart from on OzTam, but we can't access most of that now), or at least I can't find them anymore if they were, but the best source for numbers I've found is this little collection from Media Week-https://twitter.com/search?q=%40MediaweekAUS %23WorldClubSeries &src=typd

But I can remember numbers roughly around 25-30k mark from earlier years as well. 

 

[The Great Dane]

8 hours ago, Dave T said:

Which is exactly what I have said from the start of this.

It isn't about the UK fans making concessions though, the numbers will just plummet, how can we justify that commercially?

You see Australian sports fans have been through this before with Super Rugby and we know how badly it can turn out if there's no give or take, and it's all about concessions if you want it to work.

NZ and SA refused to make a few concessions to the ARU, put them into a terrible negotiating position with their broadcasters here in Australia, and boom 5-10 years later not only is Super in Australia going down the gurgler but the whole ARU is threatening to do so.

If you want the WCC to grow in Australia every now and again you are going to have to give it a chance to push it's self into the spotlight down here, that means that every now and then things aren't going to be perfectly convenient for the fans in the UK, just as it isn't always convenient for the fans here in Australia (traditionally it's never been convenient for the fans down here when it comes to the WCC).

[East Coast Tiger]

10 hours ago, Allora said:

I doubt the organisers care, they do what fits for them, same as the UK teams do when its played there.

Do you know that any thought was given to the Australian time zone when played in the UK?

 

They won't answer this because it shows they're hypocritical whingers. 

It's been on Monday morning here the past few years and not a peep out of these sooks about it. Hmmm what a surprise. It's only a problem when it's poms who don't like the timing apparently. 

[The Great Dane]

2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Nobody is asking for it to be perfectly convenient for the UK fans. Just not 9am on a weekday. That has almost certainly cost it 160k viewers from the off. 

Playing the game in prime time on a Saturday instead of in prime time on a Friday will cost anywhere between 250k-500k (maybe more) viewers in Australia... And growing the WCC as a brand and an event in Australia is more important then in England at the moment, the survival of the WCC is literally relying on it's growth in Australia, so what exactly do you want?

And you do want it to be perfectly convenient for UK fans cause for the first time in history that it hasn't been perfectly convenient for UK fans you are making out that it's a huge deal, when really it's not.

[The Great Dane]

12 minutes ago, East Coast Tiger said:

They won't answer this because it shows they're hypocritical whingers. 

It's been on Monday morning here the past few years and not a peep out of these sooks about it. Hmmm what a surprise. It's only a problem when it's poms who don't like the timing apparently. 

I know right, over it's existence it's been on everyday of the weekend with kickoff times starting at anytime ranging from 5am-8am in the morning, and not a peep, but the one time that the NRL actually tries to do something with it and actually gives it a good push and it's the end of the world...

Seems they like the status quo of the WCC being a nothing event so long as it's completely controlled by them...

[The Great Dane]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

if you are going to make up figures, try to do so consistently otherwise it looks like you are making them up

Fine do the reading yourself, I'll even make it pretty easy for you, go through these links and compare the numbers for games on Fridays prime time and Saturdays prime time, make sure to compare corresponding games where possible and not to only take one point of data into account, and tell me that my rough figures aren't as accurate as possible.

Some numbers from RL-https://twitter.com/search?q=%40MediaweekAUS %23NRL&src=typd

https://twitter.com/search?q=%40MediaweekAUS %23RLWC2017&src=typd

I'll even give you some AFL numbers so you can start to see the broader pattern in Australian sports media as well- https://twitter.com/search?q=%40MediaweekAUS %23AFL&src=typd

I would link numbers on other leagues and sports, but as you know, since you're an expert on all things Australian sport despite the fact that you live on the other side of the planet, don't seem to have any great interest in any Australian sports leagues, and almost certainly have never spent any significant time here, you don't really need any more information then that that the NRL and AFL provides to see over arching patterns in viewership of Australian sports.

[Dave T]

45 minutes ago, East Coast Tiger said:

They won't answer this because it shows they're hypocritical whingers. 

It's been on Monday morning here the past few years and not a peep out of these sooks about it. Hmmm what a surprise. It's only a problem when it's poms who don't like the timing apparently. 

The question has been answered numerous times. But hey, keep lying and saying people wont answer if it makes you feel good.

 

[Dave T]

3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Im not sure what you thought that would bring up but it shows a thursday game at 904K, three Friday games at 390k and 730k and 301k, and Saturday games at 713k, 409k, 336k and 564k.

How far down are we supposed to go to see this apparently obvious pattern that would make a Saturday game untenable?

 

Facts are not important, nor welcome round here. When i say round here I mean in Australia.

[The Great Dane]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

Im not sure what you thought that would bring up but it shows a thursday game at 904K, three Friday games at 390k and 730k and 301k, and Saturday games at 713k, 409k, 336k and 564k.

How far down are we supposed to go to see this apparently obvious pattern that would make a Saturday game untenable?

 

You're not comparing like for like, I'm pretty sure you're not comparing prime time numbers, you haven't taken a large enough sample size to show any pattern at all, and you're cherry picking single data points to support your argument.....

And to see a pattern you'll have to go over an extended period of time, at the very least a season, realistically even more but this is an internet forum not a scientific paper, not a handful of games...

[The Great Dane]

5 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Facts are not important, nor welcome round here. When i say round here I mean in Australia.

Yeah cause comparing finals games on a Saturday to Raiders versus Knights on a Friday at the end of the season after both clubs seasons have ended is like for like....

[Dave T]

5 minutes ago, The Great Dane said:

Yeah cause comparing finals games on a Saturday to Raiders versus Knights on a Friday at the end of the season after both clubs seasons have ended is like for like....

Well if we are comparing the same games, according to you the benchmark for the WCC in Oz is 30k.

So Saturday night is fine.

[The Great Dane]

20 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The question has been answered numerous times. But hey, keep lying and saying people wont answer if it makes you feel good.

 

It was? Cause I haven't seen a conclusive or satisfactory answer to- 

Quote

Do you know that any thought was given to the Australian time zone when played in the UK?

BTW from where I'm standing, the answer seems to be that no thought was given to the Australian time zone what so ever, but that wasn't an issue for you lot at all until now, long after the fact, that the shoe is on the other foot.

And it seems to me that the only reason that the shoe is on the other foot is to try and save the whole bloody concept of the WCC because a handful of idiots (all from SL clubs) thought that they could shame the NRL clubs into participating and pocket all the profits forever and that the NRL clubs wouldn't get jack of it.

[The Great Dane]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

You're 100% correct, I'm not comparing like for like, im not comparing prime time numbers, i havent taken a large enough sample size to show any pattern at all. 

You are 100% wrong that Im cherry picking data,. Im completely ambivalent to that data, those figures are of no consequence to me. Im not the one arguing they support my argument. You seem to have confused me and you. You are the one who brought them up, you are the one who implied they supported their argument, they are your figures, you are the one arguing they show a clear and unambiguous pattern that shows a Saturday game would rate so low compared to a Friday game as to make it untenable. 

This thread is somewhat of twilight zone where Im an RFL apologist and somehow responsible for the data you provided not backing up your argument.

Odd

No, that isn't what happened, and you know that isn't what happened.

I gave you rough figures of the probably loss of viewership you could expect if you played the game on a Saturday PT instead of Friday PT, you contested those figures without providing your own figures to counter mine, I gave you direct access to the data necessary to formulate your own figures, and you can't be bothered to formulate your own figures, which is fine...

And you are being an apologist for the RFLs/SL clubs actions in this case... 

[The Great Dane]

4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The thing he is yet to realise is that he is making the argument for us. It matters far less on what day the game is played as to who is playing and what they are playing for.

Their is a over arching pattern of higher ratings on a Friday then on a Saturday, you don't trust my saying (or my figures) so I've given you access to the data.

Go look for yourself, cause you're only going to ignore anything that I say or quote...

4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The answer then is quite obvious, to play the game in both countries at the most convenient time for both countries and work to increase the visibility of the opposing club in the host nation and build the prestige of the competition.

That answer only seems to be obvious to you when the game is played in Australia...

4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Its also interesting to see the arrogance of the Australian fan towards the attractiveness of SL when SL has a tv deal in Australia on a major sports channel. The NRL however currently has no UK broadcast contract and has spent years locked away on a minor standalone sports channel alongside Swedish and Polish Speedway.

No they don't...

The Super Leagues deal is with Fox League which while not being a tiny channel I wouldn't call it a major channel either (it is growing though, not Fox Sport plural, it also has no FTA exposure which is where the real money is in Australia (and all the major channels are).

Also it's a hell of a lot easier to sell RL content to the biggest RL market in the world then it is to sell it to broadcasting companies controlled by a bunch of rich parochial snobs whom you yourself would admit treat the sport like second class citizens in favour of greasing the hands of their RU and soccer mates because of some weird classist attitudes that still exist in your country...

[The Great Dane]

7 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

No, you contested your own figures. For some reason you moved from 100k to 600k difference to a 250k - 500k difference, i simply pointed out that when you can't even find consistency with your own figures it sounds like you are making it up.

Both are reasonable numbers given the lack of data we have specifically on the WCC.

It's hard to extrapolate exact numbers on the WCC when it's only been held in Australia once in the last 20 years, so we have to extrapolate numbers based on those that we can get from the NRL and RLWC, that's very hard and quite subjective (cause you have to decide whether difference in viewership for the WCC would be more similar to what you'd expect the difference that a game between two popular teams would suffer, or two smaller teams, etc), which is also why the numbers are so broad. 

For example it's very easy to see the viewership difference between Fri and Sat for a Parramatta vs Bulldogs game, all you have to do is look up the difference over the years, you can't do that for the WCC, so a lot of guesstimatetion is involved in the exact figures.

7 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

You then went on to provide data that didnt support your point but in fact supported the opposite argument then blamed me for it. 

Its almost impressive that you are having this argument with yourself and managing to be wrong on both sides. 

I did provide data that supported my position, you are just to lazy to go through it in detail...

[East Coast Tiger]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

The question has been answered numerous times. But hey, keep lying and saying people wont answer if it makes you feel good.

 

What answer? Show me where the complaints were when it was shown on Monday mornings here the past few years. Go on. If this is about the best time for all fans you can prove your concern for ALL fans. 

Otherwise it's just poms bitching and moaning and wanting everything to suit them as always. 

[The Great Dane]

4 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

1. You have yet to prove your assertion my dude. Your own figures dont seem to back you up.

It does show what I'm saying you are just too lazy to go through the data to any significant extent, and there's no point in me doing it for you cause you'll just ignore it and say I'm making it up...

Quote

2.  It really doesnt. I mean you can keep ignoring what i say and instead pretend this is real but its not going to make it real.

What people say doesn't interest me as much as their actions do (especially what they say after the fact), and as far as I can tell there's no evidence at all on this forum of an uproar when no thought was given to the Australian market when scheduling the WCC/WCS in previous years... 

Quote

3. The channel which shows the most NRL content is not a major sports channel? thats not a particularly glowing endorsement of the NRL.  Neither is the fact that the NRL the biggest RL competition in the world can't sell itself in the 2nd biggest RL market in the world. 

Super Rugby and Top 14 on the other hand...

And Rupert Murdoch, the dirty digger, definitely pays for antipodean and french RU because of 'classism' its also the reason he invested in football which in the late 80s early 90s Britain was known as the sport of the upper/middle classes.

The NRL channel is just on a year old, it hasn't had time to become a major sports channel yet... But as I said it is growing.

Even so SL is only played live and as filler during mid day, mid week, and I swear to god that sometimes it isn't even played live, and two games a week (or is it three?) repeated a couple of times for the cost of a pie and a coke isn't exactly a great TV deal or something to crow about, just as I'm sure that the NRLs deal in the UK isn't something to crow about either.

To call yourself the second biggest RL market in the world is pushing it, second richest RL market definitely (and if that is what you meant then fine), but I reckon that PNG would be pushing you for second biggest, I'm honestly not sure though.

And if you really think that Rupert Murdoch has anything to do with the day to day operations of Sky Sport then their's no helping you, even so Rupert Murdoch isn't exactly famous for his support of RL, in fact he's got to be up there as one of the top few individuals to do the most damage to Australian RL in history.

[The Great Dane]

4 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Yeah that sounds like made up nonsense. Sorry.

Well "my dude" you seem to have very little understanding of statistical analysis (not saying that I'm an expert) and/or you don't seem to know what a proxy and/or extrapolation is, and that's fine I'm not knocking you, but I don't have the time to go into further detail to explain what I was doing or saying.