Dual registration discussion (Merged Threads)

[Harry Stottle]

7 hours ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

Halifax and especially Rich Marshall have been clever. The Dual Reg may see one max 2 be used from Cas. But if there is no player on Dual Reg then Marshall has promoted players from Reserve Grade like Chester Butler, Anthony Mcgrath, Sion Jones, etc over the past 18 months and given them game time and they have not been out of their depth. Fax also have loaned out players to Rochdale etc and have players like Halfback Adam Brook out on Dual Reg at Newcastle alongside a couple of others like Anthony Mcgrath today.

So Fax have used the Dual Reg to get possibly more experienced players at key times, but then used the Dual Reg to help the young players first get some game time but then also to play at a good level in League 1 with Newcastle. They have also on loan Kieron Moss from Hull KR but also Wigans Academy player Macauley Davies for a month. He has been told he has no guarentee of a first team place but wanted to come to Fax apparently as he wanted the challenge to play first grade that he wont get at Wigan at the moment. So while many Championship Clubs have spent money on around 25 Players, Fax have a bigger squad overall that may see them gain wins over teams that just have 16 or 17 fit players.

Sadly many teams think only of the First team and fail to see the benefits of a reserve Grade team. But I think its vital that reserve/Academy graders are also allowed to play amateur Rugby if they are not getting any other game time. The game cant afford to see players drift away or become disillussioned if they are not playing. I am not a fan of DR but IF used correctly can be beneficial. However relying on it to get a team out especially at this time of year like some Championship teams are doing, is a very unwise. Fax spend around 25-30K for reserve grade mainly funded by the Supporters Trust. That money could have been used on bringing in a better first team player. Personally I think thats money been far more beneficial in bringing in local youngsters and others to play reserve grade and eventually first team Rugby. It may see Fax make the top 4 over another rival who have a small squad.

So why do you need DR players at all at Fax, LRL?,

If I was one of Fax's players told by Mr Marshall you have to step down this week even though I have trained hard all week, 'suchabody' is available and coming over from Cas I am playing him instead of you, he be told to shove it and would have my transfer request on his desk in 10 minutes.

Would it be, because of the system, it generates a 'fight fire with fire' attitude, if that club can do it we need to do it to.

As I said in the immediate post above, it is an abomination and should be stopped.

[Oliver Clothesoff]

13 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If it was managable/allowable and Australian clubs could link up with SL clubs to send players over on an ad-hock basis, pretty much like SL clubs do with their DR agreement clubs, and supposing these "Guest" players could be pretty influential in the games between SL clubs, for example Wigans "Guest" were good enough to prise the Championship of Saints, what would be your feelings towards that system?

Isn’t this the premise of sport? To build a squad that the coach believes is capable of winning games? 

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, Oliver Clothesoff said:

Isn’t this the premise of sport? To build a squad that the coach believes is capable of winning games? 

Most certainly it is, but within the club itself, can you not see how unfair it actually is?

[Oliver Clothesoff]

19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Most certainly it is, but within the club itself, can you not see how unfair it actually is?

Nope not from the example you gave. If Wigan were to loan Jonathan Thurston tomorrow and stormed to Grand Final glory, I’d be sick as a Saints fan but that’s the game and that’s sport. 

[bobbruce]

45 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If it was managable/allowable and Australian clubs could link up with SL clubs to send players over on an ad-hock basis, pretty much like SL clubs do with their DR agreement clubs, and supposing these "Guest" players could be pretty influential in the games between SL clubs, for example Wigans "Guest" were good enough to prise the Championship of Saints, what would be your feelings towards that system?

Effectively that is what is happening in the Championship, Fev for example have utilised the Leeds loanees very effectivly in a league that where a club finishes in the league structure they are rewarded with both extra income from

A. More prize money

B. Hitting a top 4 spot, obtaining better return from more lucrative fixtures.

So, league points means prizes, it is not by any stretch of the imagination fair on those clubs who do not utilise guest players to lose league points, it should not be allowed to happen because this is the influence it can have.

It also has the same effect at the bottom of the Championship, with those competeing trying to avoid relegation, the club loaning the better players will have the advantage.

It is an abomination and should be stopped.

My point wasn’t whether DR is a good or bad thing. Although everyone who wants it scrapping seem to be happy to replace it with straight forward loans. So that same scenario could happen with or without DR. My point is it’s always portrayed as the big bad SL clubs forcing DR on the rest. These lower league clubs are still independent clubs and make these choices for themselves. As I said there must be a benefit to them or they wouldn’t be doing it. 

[tms]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Effectively that is what is happening in the Championship, Fev for example have utilised the Leeds loanees very effectivly

correct but only to cover suspensions and injuries would you rather them turn out with 15 players like barrow did yesterday

BTW yesterday FEV 17 fit FEV players no DR

[Lounge Room Lizard]

58 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So why do you need DR players at all at Fax, LRL?,

If I was one of Fax's players told by Mr Marshall you have to step down this week even though I have trained hard all week, 'suchabody' is available and coming over from Cas I am playing him instead of you, he be told to shove it and would have my transfer request on his desk in 10 minutes.

Would it be, because of the system, it generates a 'fight fire with fire' attitude, if that club can do it we need to do it to.

As I said in the immediate post above, it is an abomination and should be stopped.

Partly because of injuries - Adam Tangata who has only just started playing having missed most of the season and another forward Harry Kidd has missed the whole season after getting injured in Pre Season and Simon Grix was also not fully fit. So 3 Forwards down. You also have to remember Fax spend around 300K compared to Leigh, Toronto on a Million Plus and even Fev spend way more than Fax. I can only guess Marshall likes the DR as an option for Fax to have a more experienced or stronger team out at times than he would normally have. If there was an issue with the players it certainly doesnt show as Fax as usual are punching far beyond their weight.

Also I can only guess Marshall was concerned about the lack of experience at times against Rivals and looked to use DR as an option to use. However Marshall has also used the Youngsters and given them chances like Butler, Barber, etc and they have not been dropped for DRs. As like anything its getting the balance right, Using an option like DR or Loan can be beneficial. However relying on it when you have a small squad of 25 or less is not a good idea!

[Harry Stottle]

24 minutes ago, bobbruce said:

My point wasn’t whether DR is a good or bad thing. Although everyone who wants it scrapping seem to be happy to replace it with straight forward loans. So that same scenario could happen with or without DR. My point is it’s always portrayed as the big bad SL clubs forcing DR on the rest. These lower league clubs are still independent clubs and make these choices for themselves. As I said there must be a benefit to them or they wouldn’t be doing it. 

Off course there is a benefit to them, exactly what I pointed out it to be, do you not agree?

I also used the word loan, but that was in respect of describing a DR player, if loans are to be allowed I would say they should only be allowed if they were long period loans i.e. for a season. That benefits all, the recieving club having stabillity,  and the loanee club, keeping the players registration and not having to pay their wages, if that player makes progress they consider will be good for the parent club job done.

[Harry Stottle]

6 minutes ago, POR said:

correct but only to cover suspensions and injuries would you rather them turn out with 15 players like barrow did yesterday

BTW yesterday FEV 17 fit FEV players no DR

To cover suspensions, that is absolutely ridiculous, so a player suspended does not impact on their club they can just bring in someone else, that makes a complete mockery of the system, I know it happened at your club following the 2 suspensions of your players in the cup game v. Hull FC, no problem just bring in Ormanroyd and Walters.

And don't talk rubbish re Fev pkaying all teir own player's yesterday, yes it happened but how much was that influenced by the injuries at your parent club in Headingly, had Leeds had a full roster and players available are you telling me that Fev would not have utilised them?

[Harry Stottle]

16 minutes ago, Lounge Room Lizard said:

Partly because of injuries - Adam Tangata who has only just started playing having missed most of the season and another forward Harry Kidd has missed the whole season after getting injured in Pre Season and Simon Grix was also not fully fit. So 3 Forwards down. You also have to remember Fax spend around 300K compared to Leigh, Toronto on a Million Plus and even Fev spend way more than Fax. I can only guess Marshall likes the DR as an option for Fax to have a more experienced or stronger team out at times than he would normally have. If there was an issue with the players it certainly doesnt show as Fax as usual are punching far beyond their weight.

Also I can only guess Marshall was concerned about the lack of experience at times against Rivals and looked to use DR as an option to use. However Marshall has also used the Youngsters and given them chances like Butler, Barber, etc and they have not been dropped for DRs. As like anything its getting the balance right, Using an option like DR or Loan can be beneficial. However relying on it when you have a small squad of 25 or less is not a good idea!

It's an absolutely wonderful idea, doing Fev no harm is it? They spend more than Fax you say but have far less players on the books, presumably they invest in better players and have the luxuary of and probably even better players to call upon, if they have injuries or has POR proudly states if their players get suspended, what a load of bollux that is.

[tms]

6 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

It's an absolutely wonderful idea, doing Fev no harm is it? They spend more than Fax you say but have far less players on the books, presumably they invest in better players and have the luxuary of and probably even better players to call upon, if they have injuries or has POR proudly states if their players get suspended, what a load of bollux that is.

guilty has charged harry a proud FEV supporter who  by the way hates DR

[Harry Stottle]

9 minutes ago, POR said:

guilty has charged harry a proud FEV supporter who  by the way hates DR

Well said mate, that is all I required some honesty, by the way, I have enjoyed two trips to Fev this season and spent a couple of hours in the Last Orders having great conversations with the natives, just as I did at the Bash, me and my mate had an hour with a bunch of Fev fans in a bar in Blackpool, good guys.

[tms]

next time harry come to b and s not a cheap but no nob heads

[fairfolly]

Por,

             Which proves my point I made to you last week.Fev. are far better off playing their own players.The team spirit will be much better,yesterday your so called reserves scored 50 points,why would you want D/R players when your own club players are obviously good enough.D/R players want to play for the club they have signed for not farmed off somewhere else.Whatever you think they have no allegiance to your club they are only their for the S.L clubs benefit,to keep them fit or help them recover from injury.It needs scrapping at the end of this season never to return.Then we may see a fair competition in the Championship and League 1.

[tms]

1 hour ago, fairfolly said:

.The team spirit will be much better,yesterday your so called reserves scored 50 points,why would you want D/R players

they are not reserve players apart from Walton who's only played twice because of a ten month injury absence all the rest are into double figures for the season

[Total Rugby League]

Luke Briscoe would have surely been forgiven for getting slightly confused when his former and current employers ran his contractual situation by him earlier this week. The Featherstone winger has signed for Leeds for a third time – only this time on loan until the end of the season. Yet as early as this weekend, he could make his way…

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[roughyedspud]

No.....

As we've seen recently with teams struggle to field 17 players...EVERY club should run a under 21s/reserves at the very least..

Without reserves and restricted pro/semi pro under 18s & 16s options we restrict the development pathway from junior amateurs to pro/semi pro clubs...as a result 14-15 year olds who don't get picked up by the limited number of academies they stop taking the sport seriously...that in turn impacts the open age amateurs,which is in decline also...

And it's all our fault for scraping the majority of junior RL at pro & semi pro clubs..