The General 'Toronto Wolfpack' Discussion Thread

[Tommygilf]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

So what is Micheal Carter doing that is so bad ?

Similarily the Hudds and Cas people , what else other than what they are doing do you want them to do ?

Yes Hudgell is leaving , but that has no bearing on what he has done at HKR for a decade , everybody ' goes ' eventually , so has he ' failed ' ? , And if so , in what way ? 

Quote "My ambition is for RL to be the second biggest sport in the North of England." Zero ambition, zero growth. 

They're protecting their status which is fair enough, but that shouldn't be at the expense of ambitious clubs (such as your own might I add).

 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Sorry , that isn't an answer , try again , what is ' enough ' ?

It is, your club experienced it in the championship with the battle Degsy had to get the cap raised. Lowest common denominator thinking gets nobody nowhere except the lowest team standing still.

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Quote "My ambition is for RL to be the second biggest sport in the North of England." Zero ambition, zero growth. 

They're protecting their status which is fair enough, but that shouldn't be at the expense of ambitious clubs (such as your own might I add).

 

Well I'd say being realistic given we have 3 of the top ten richest football clubs in the world within that area 

How is what they are doing at another clubs expense ?

Only the removal of on field  and R is doing that 

[Harry Stottle]

19 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

Its not even on the basis of my personal preferences. It's evidence based proof of how expansion is best achieved in our sport. If that is the aim of having Catalans in the European Super League, then I'd say that does make it right actually?

I mean I really do question how abusing that system would work. They deliberately recruit a weakened team and lose every week? Crowds would plummet which would make no sense financially. They play a load of kids? Great for youth development but yet again would make little sense if they were losing every week. They coast at the end of the season? Doesn't every team when they are able to - Saints v London last year, Leeds, Wire and Wigan only this week? If you suspect some more nefarious dealings would go on I'd suggest its already happened between all English teams anyway.

If you can't see how replacing Wakefield in the super league with Leigh (which is perfectly fine in my eyes) is fundamentally different for the future of Rugby League to replacing Catalans with Featherstone say, I despair. I also suggest that you'll have more fun watching the NCL than any professional sport ever could give you.

And back on topic!

Nice examples you put on abusing a system were any team can be protected from relegation but you simply miss any subsequent allegations that could arise from it.

Last season went as smooth as it could in a division with no one protected and with London eventually being relegated there was nothing to say, but you are an intelligent bloke Tommy can you not see had Wakefield, HKR or Huddersfield been relegated the 'fall out' that would have been aimed in Saints direction in sending two very weakened teams to London, there would have been all kinds of accusations and condemnation flying about, and it would have been correct and justified.

Fast forward that scenario into a League system that has protected clubs, a protected club simply because it doesn't matter if they lose can blood youngsters in games to give them expierence but like Saints they won't do that at their home venue in front of their own speccies they will choose away games and guess who they will choose obviously the weaker clubs just as Saints did in selecting London the bottom club, should that happen and any club who is in a 'jeopardy' situation who has benefited from such actions then expect all kinds of allegations from any other club who happens to get relegated especially in a very tight league placing as last season, as it happens HKR got through on points difference, if results had gone differently in the last round it could have been any one of the four, but the last round was influenced it was a consequence of Saints earlier in the season twice sending - lets be more generous - 'development' teams to London.

You can have all your idealistic system formulations you wish, but in a basterdised league set-up it simply doesn't work to protect some teams whilst others have to suffer the consequences, and in your ideal world you want at least 4 teams protected when theoretically the 5th bottom team could be relegated THROUGH DOING WHAT THEY SET OUT TO DO AT THE ONSET OF THE SEASON BY NOT FINISHING BOTTOM OF THE LEAGUE, don't even go to they have not to finish bottom of the English clubs, that can be influenced by those who winning or losing doesn't matter when all games are for gaining or losing competition points, every club is affected.

[Tommygilf]

15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

And back on topic!

Nice examples you put on abusing a system were any team can be protected from relegation but you simply miss any subsequent allegations that could arise from it.

Last season went as smooth as it could in a division with no one protected and with London eventually being relegated there was nothing to say, but you are an intelligent bloke Tommy can you not see had Wakefield, HKR or Huddersfield been relegated the 'fall out' that would have been aimed in Saints direction in sending two very weakened teams to London, there would have been all kinds of accusations and condemnation flying about, and it would have been correct and justified.

Fast forward that scenario into a League system that has protected clubs, a protected club simply because it doesn't matter if they lose can blood youngsters in games to give them expierence but like Saints they won't do that at their home venue in front of their own speccies they will choose away games and guess who they will choose obviously the weaker clubs just as Saints did in selecting London the bottom club, should that happen and any club who is in a 'jeopardy' situation who has benefited from such actions then expect all kinds of allegations from any other club who happens to get relegated especially in a very tight league placing as last season, as it happens HKR got through on points difference, if results had gone differently in the last round it could have been any one of the four, but the last round was influenced it was a consequence of Saints earlier in the season twice sending - lets be more generous - 'development' teams to London.

You can have all your idealistic system formulations you wish, but in a basterdised league set-up it simply doesn't work to protect some teams whilst others have to suffer the consequences, and in your ideal world you want at least 4 teams protected when theoretically the 5th bottom team could be relegated THROUGH DOING WHAT THEY SET OUT TO DO AT THE ONSET OF THE SEASON BY NOT FINISHING BOTTOM OF THE LEAGUE, don't even go to they have not to finish bottom of the English clubs, that can be influenced by those who winning or losing doesn't matter when all games are for gaining or losing competition points, every club is affected.

Doesn't matter what allegations are made. Happens all the time in sport, thats the way the cookie crumbles.

The only other alternative to my solution that would work is having a totally joined up anglo-french league system from the bottom up.

[GUBRATS]

21 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

It is, your club experienced it in the championship with the battle Degsy had to get the cap raised. Lowest common denominator thinking gets nobody nowhere except the lowest team standing still.

Derek's request was as a reaction to Championship clubs having to compete with SL clubs on the pitch to attain SL , a direct result of the 8 s structure , no other reason 

[Quolls2020]

1 hour ago, GUBRATS said:

What is properly ? 

Did David Argyle set up Toronto for the ' good of the game ' , or for his personal ' ego ' ?

And if we follow your suggestion , we could end up with how many clubs ? , Be a good league with 2/3 clubs 

Properly, to have  a plan, and achieve it, to get the team to a position where they can maintain their viability both on and off the field without the owners money

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Quolls2020 said:

Properly, to have  a plan, and achieve it, to get the team to a position where they can maintain their viability both on and off the field without the owners money

And you know for a fact they don't have a plan ? 

Have you ever set up or run a business ? 

Have you ever heard the saying " best laid plans of men and mice " ? 

[Quolls2020]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

And you know for a fact they don't have a plan ? 

Have you ever set up or run a business ? 

Have you ever heard the saying " best laid plans of men and mice " ? 

Yes I have.

and the focus was “achieve“ it. I should have said “realistic and achievable”

[Tommygilf]

5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Derek's request was as a reaction to Championship clubs having to compete with SL clubs on the pitch to attain SL , a direct result of the 8 s structure , no other reason 

And has subsequently been kept afterwards, suggests more than that no?

[GUBRATS]

Anyway , my wife gave me a plan for today , it involved washing , cleaning , tidying up , walking the dog , shopping and various other extremely boring things , will I succeed in achieving her ' plan ' ? , Well I'd better achieve some of it or I'll be in ' bother ' , and that won't happen if one talking blo X on here 

See you all later for round 683 

[GUBRATS]

Just now, Quolls2020 said:

Yes I have.

and the focus was “achieve“ it. I should have said “realistic and achievable”

Was it your money paying to achieve it ?

[Tommygilf]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Anyway , my wife gave me a plan for today , it involved washing , cleaning , tidying up , walking the dog , shopping and various other extremely boring things , will I succeed in achieving her ' plan ' ? , Well I'd better achieve some of it or I'll be in ' bother ' , and that won't happen if one talking blo X on here 

See you all later for round 683 

Get a job man!

[GUBRATS]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

And has subsequently been kept afterwards, suggests more than that no?

Or it suggests that to reduce a salary cap when clubs already have contracted players isn't a good idea , or if we have new clubs shortly arriving who will need that salary cap to operate 

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Get a job man!

I'm on my ' hols ' 

[Robin Evans]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Get a job man!

Nah.... I know lynda..... Steve will do those chores.......

[Tommygilf]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

I'm on my ' hols ' 

Doesn't sound it!

[GUBRATS]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Get a job man!

Like the one you are doing right now ?

Good job you don't work for me

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, GUBRATS said:

Or it suggests that to reduce a salary cap when clubs already have contracted players isn't a good idea , or if we have new clubs shortly arriving who will need that salary cap to operate 

Thus dragging the game forwards! Thank you!

[Tommygilf]

Just now, GUBRATS said:

Like the one you are doing right now ?

Good job you don't work for me

I'm a student mate, just left the gym and had a flat white and almond croissant, you are paying for me!

[Quolls2020]

5 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Was it your money paying to achieve it ?

Once, yes, but I learnt.

 

[Harry Stottle]

15 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Doesn't matter what allegations are made. Happens all the time in sport, thats the way the cookie crumbles.

The only other alternative to my solution that would work is having a totally joined up anglo-french league system from the bottom up.

So dishonesty in a protected league does not matter, enough said if that is the way a cookie crumbles, I do not know what your long term employment ambitions are Tommy but with ypur attitude I would hot want to work for you.

Back to finance, who pays for your angli- french bottom up system.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

So dishonesty in a protected league does not matter, enough said if that is the way a cookie crumbles, I do not know what your long term employment ambitions are Tommy but with ypur attitude I would hot want to work for you.

Back to finance, who pays for your angli- french bottom up system.

Harry I'm sure you're old enough to have seen plenty of sporting events and matches where dubiousness was accused. 99% of the time its nonsense and in any case focussing on your own shortcomings will always get you further than whinging about perceived injustices in games you couldn't affect.

I'm not being dishonest at all, I've been upfront completely with my view and put evidenced based responses up to back them. I've also not placed any strawmen up that have little basis in reality or imagined conspiracies.

I've no idea how it would be funded H, I think its nonsense because I believe in prioritising and consolidating strengths and have repeatedly explained how I'd do that, but its what you seem to want in your sporting purity obsession. Please tell me how you'd envisage your recently posted view that you'd have as many french teams in our league competing on the same basis?

[Harry Stottle]

27 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Harry I'm sure you're old enough to have seen plenty of sporting events and matches where dubiousness was accused. 99% of the time its nonsense and in any case focussing on your own shortcomings will always get you further than whinging about perceived injustices in games you couldn't affect.

I'm not being dishonest at all, I've been upfront completely with my view and put evidenced based responses up to back them. I've also not placed any strawmen up that have little basis in reality or imagined conspiracies.

I've no idea how it would be funded H, I think its nonsense because I believe in prioritising and consolidating strengths and have repeatedly explained how I'd do that, but its what you seem to want in your sporting purity obsession. Please tell me how you'd envisage your recently posted view that you'd have as many french teams in our league competing on the same basis?

Please tell me in your opinion in the example I gave do you think that if any of the other 3 teams in last years relegation battle had been relegated it would just have been accepted.

[Tommygilf]

16 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Please tell me in your opinion in the example I gave do you think that if any of the other 3 teams in last years relegation battle had been relegated it would just have been accepted.

Yep, because they would have lost too many games, including to London. Everyone underestimated London, particularly the bottom teams who thought they would be miles away. Of course there would be some one-eyed, myopic fans who blamed the referees, the RFL, the weather and the baby jesus etc before they blamed their own teams ineptitude, but you get morons in all walks of life and at all clubs. What do you suggest they'd do, sue St Helens for being the best team and being able to rotate their squad to prioritise certain games?? Obviously, life would have gone on. 

I mean the obvious solution to your conundrum would be to remove the threat of relegation altogether, but I doubt you'd be in favour of that. 

As I've said before H, if you want sport purely for sports sake, you'll find far more enjoyment out of the NCL than any professional competition.