The Greatest Show In The Galaxy

[Shadow]

Loved it

[John Drake]

I watched the Christmas Day special 'live' in the company of friends who aren't Who fans like me. One left the room half way through to answer a call from a relative, one fell asleep, and one said it was a lot of fun. Make of that unscientific straw poll what you will.

Me? Of course I enjoyed it! I thought it was a confident debut by Ncuti Gatwa and Millie Gibson, who managed to keep their characters grounded amidst the usual sort of daftness Russell T Davies always jams into his Christmas specials. Like Davina McCall being skewered by a Christmas Tree (Davina cannot really act, even when playing herself), and that musical number. I could have lived without it, if I'm honest, but it was very catchy, well performed - and hopefully a one-off rather than a taste of things to come.

When you have two excellent leads, turn the silliness down and the drama up, let's see what they can do, that's my preference.

Watching it live, the pacing felt a bit off, but that was probably the food and drink I'd consumed. On a rewatch the next day, it didn't seem as disjointed as I thought. 

Lots of questions left hanging in the air for the new series, from the identity of Ruby's mother, to the mysterious Mrs Flood. I thought they'd just shoehorned Anita Dobson in there as a bit of stunt casting for Christmas, until her last line direct to the camera, which made me go 'ooooh, interesting!'

It was the third most watched programme on Christmas Day, behind The King and Strictly, which isn't bad I suppose, although 'live' viewing figures across the board are rubbish these days compared to days of old. It's future will no doubt be determined by streaming figures via iPlayer and Disney+ and how much cash it generates from merchandise, which must be considerable, based on how much stuff I alone buy!! 

The new series trailer looked good. It'll be a long wait till May now...

[John Drake]

Here’s a nice thing that happened.

On the Radio 1 Breakfast Show on Tuesday, they were giving away a prize to attend the season premiere of the new series of Doctor Who in May.

Two finalists were chosen from all the entries and went head to head against each other live on t’radio, the first one to get a correct answer wins the prize, the loser gets nowt. Boo hoo sob, tough luck etc.

The prize was won by a girl called Amy (not Pond) and the loser was a 16-year old lad who sounded very disappointed not to have won, but was gracious about it anyway.

Fast forward to Wednesday morning, and they call the 16-year old kid back on the ruse of checking he was ok and had got over the disappointment, then, surprise surprise, they connect him to a call from show runner Russell T Davies, who had heard the competition the previous day and thought it was too harsh to disappoint a young fan like that, so decided to invite the lad and his dad, also a fan, to the premiere as well.

Aww, bless.

[Sidi Fidi Gold]

Some Doctor Who news, just in case anybody hasn't heard.

Firstly, Former show runner Steven Moffatt is coming back to write an episode for the up coming series.

Secondly and controversially, the upcoming series will air on the 11th of May, 2 episodes will be available at midnight on iplayer, at the same time it will stream globally on Disney to coincide with prime time in the USA. The 2 episodes will then be shown on BBC1 on Saturday evening, after that 1 episode a week will be shown.

[Sidi Fidi Gold]

Just now, Sidi Fidi Gold said:

Some Doctor Who news, just in case anybody hasn't heard.

Firstly, Former show runner Steven Moffatt is coming back to write an episode for the up coming series.

Secondly and controversially, the upcoming series will air on the 11th of May, 2 episodes will be available at midnight on iplayer, at the same time it will stream globally on Disney to coincide with prime time in the USA. The 2 episodes will then be shown on BBC1 on Saturday evening, after that 1 episode a week will be shown.

When I say Moffatt is coming back, what I should have said is , he has already written the episode, I think its the 3rd ep of the upcoming service,

[John Drake]

On 20/03/2024 at 16:40, Sidi Fidi Gold said:

Some Doctor Who news, just in case anybody hasn't heard.

Firstly, Former show runner Steven Moffatt is coming back to write an episode for the up coming series.

Secondly and controversially, the upcoming series will air on the 11th of May, 2 episodes will be available at midnight on iplayer, at the same time it will stream globally on Disney to coincide with prime time in the USA. The 2 episodes will then be shown on BBC1 on Saturday evening, after that 1 episode a week will be shown.

Good to see the Moff back in the fold.

Lots of online folk getting their knickers in a twist about episodes being made available on iPlayer before they are broadcast on TV as if it's some great hardship. Sheesh, just be glad we get new episodes at all, and in the UK we don't have to subscribe to Disney+ to watch them.

Two new episodes of Doctor Who followed by the Eurovision Song Contest, sounds like a good night in front of the telly to me. Can't wait! 

[John Drake]

Well this looks like fun! 

 

[Sidi Fidi Gold]

21 hours ago, John Drake said:

Good to see the Moff back in the fold.

Lots of online folk getting their knickers in a twist about episodes being made available on iPlayer before they are broadcast on TV as if it's some great hardship. Sheesh, just be glad we get new episodes at all, and in the UK we don't have to subscribe to Disney+ to watch them.

Two new episodes of Doctor Who followed by the Eurovision Song Contest, sounds like a good night in front of the telly to me. Can't wait! 

I must admit, I loved Moffatt as show runner, he also wrote some cracking stories when RTD was last in charge.

While I'm not too bothered about the broadcast schedule, I do have a slight concern about how much influence Disney have, they had to film an extra scene for the Xmas special on Disney's request, I suppose time will tell.

[Sidi Fidi Gold]

2 hours ago, John Drake said:

Well this looks like fun! 

 

I was in 2 minds as to when to watch the up coming series, midnight or Saturday evening, after watching the trailer its definitely going to be midnight, although depending how good they are, I may rewatch on Saturday evening.

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, Sidi Fidi Gold said:

I must admit, I loved Moffatt as show runner, he also wrote some cracking stories when RTD was last in charge.

While I'm not too bothered about the broadcast schedule, I do have a slight concern about how much influence Disney have, they had to film an extra scene for the Xmas special on Disney's request, I suppose time will tell.

If someone had told me back in 1989 when the BBC cancelled the show after scheduling it up against Coronation Street to kill it in the ratings, that Disney, one of the most iconic entertainment brands in the world, would one day take an active interest in funding new episodes and promoting it to new audiences around the world, I'd have thought they were having a laugh at my expense.

I just don't get the criticism of Disney's involvement at all. I think we have the best of all worlds now. The BBC still retain ownership of the show, it still has a British show runner, someone who grew up with it and understands its appeal, and who also happens to be one of the finest writers in television today, and we have the sort of money being spent on it that makes anything possible on screen, without wobbly sets or dodgy special effects.

On top of all that, we get to watch it when we want, as many times as we want.

What's not to love?

[unapologetic pedant]

35 minutes ago, John Drake said:

without wobbly sets or dodgy special effects.

What's not to love?

You answered your own question. Not the same without low budget thrills and spills.

Elderly Doctor Who addicts watching the slick politically-correct reincarnation must feel like Man City fans who remember paying 50p to stand on the Kippax.

[HawkMan]

10 hours ago, John Drake said:

 

On top of all that, we get to watch it when we want, as many times as we want.

What's not to love?

What's not to love? This'll give you a clue  watch it if you dare.

 

[John Drake]

9 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

You answered your own question. Not the same without low budget thrills and spills.

Elderly Doctor Who addicts watching the slick politically-correct reincarnation must feel like Man City fans who remember paying 50p to stand on the Kippax.

All (well, most of) the old stuff is still available to watch, whether on DVD, beautifully remastered Bluray sets, or on demand on BBC iPlayer. Fill yer boots. Revel in the nostalgia. I do!

But demanding a TV show be made in the 2020s as it was in the 1960s is just self-indulgently silly. The Beeb itself cancelled the original run of the show in 1989 because too few people were watching it and elements of it had been turned into pantomime.

Without all the modern bells and whistles, and 21st century production values, Doctor Who just wouldn't be getting made at all now. There'd be no new episodes to endlessly critique and moan about on the internet, and not enough interest to sustain the kind of investment that currently goes into remastering the old shows for Bluray or animating lost episodes either.

If Doctor Who doesn't reach new audiences, via deals with platforms like Disney, then eventually it'll have no audience, cos all the old fogies like me will be dead, and the BBC on its own won't be able to afford to make it either.

[John Drake]

46 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

What's not to love? This'll give you a clue  watch it if you dare.

 

The title of the video alone is enough to put me off wasting minutes of my life watching it.

I enjoy Doctor Who, in all its forms. I can even sit through Time and the Rani these days and find something to love about it, when I thought it was absolute dreck back in 1987!

Honestly, if YouTube and the internet had existed in 1963, Doctor Who would have ended after its first season, sunk under a tide of criticism that the plots made no sense, the acting was poor, the lead actor fluffs his lines, they made the audience sit through three deadly dull episodes about cavemen, and two more where the cast just wandered around the set of the spaceship to save on budget. As for the historical stuff, yaaaaawnsville, where's the monsters???!!!

[HawkMan]

41 minutes ago, John Drake said:

The title of the video alone is enough to put me off wasting minutes of my life watching it.

I enjoy Doctor Who, in all its forms. I can even sit through Time and the Rani these days and find something to love about it, when I thought it was absolute dreck back in 1987!

Honestly, if YouTube and the internet had existed in 1963, Doctor Who would have ended after its first season, sunk under a tide of criticism that the plots made no sense, the acting was poor, the lead actor fluffs his lines, they made the audience sit through three deadly dull episodes about cavemen, and two more where the cast just wandered around the set of the spaceship to save on budget. As for the historical stuff, yaaaaawnsville, where's the monsters???!!!

I love it, I started this thread, but the show has now been sacrificed on the altar of diversity and political correction. It doesn't have to be this way. Other recent new series like Star Trek Discovery are also sure to be inclusive and diverse, but it's not the raison d'etre of the show or characters. In Discovery there's a gay doctor,  but it's mentioned,  the character shows his feelings and then we get on with the plot. RTD has admitted the message is the important thing, also apparently he said and it's covered in the video, that all previous adventures from 1963 onwards are " baggage " which the 15th Doctor has emotionally overcome and now can restart afresh. All those wonderful stories just baggage to be dumped. The new upcoming season will  be SERIES 1 , a new Disney inspired Americanisation of a once proud British institution. Any doubts about the fans views will be laid bare when the ratings come out. But already excuses are coming out, such as ratings don't count because of streaming and catch up. Also according to RTD every previous Doctor did not regenerate but bi- generated, so all previous Doctors,  4th 5th 10th etc..are out there having adventures to be shown if the BBC choose , recast of course, is this good or undermines the drama of previous regenerations. If you're happy with all this fine, it's a minority view. Go to Planet Mondas, Dr Who forum,  and the opinions of fans there are clear. I've recently rewatched the Ultimate Foe, a mess but enjoyable and even Twin Dilemma is class IMO put up against The Giggle which was basically the last straw for me. Enjoy the show, perhaps I'm too much of an old fogey to get this new stuff, I'll enjoy the old stuff, and proudly wear my complete 4th Doctor outfit including scarf which I have and wallow in the past.

 

Edited March 23 by HawkMan

[gingerjon]

2 hours ago, John Drake said:

The title of the video alone is enough to put me off wasting minutes of my life watching it.

I clicked to four minutes in. The guy is railing against colourblind casting in things that aren't Dr Who. It's probably not that hard to guess the framing for the rest of it.

[John Drake]

1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

I love it, I started this thread, but the show has now been sacrificed on the altar of diversity and political correction. It doesn't have to be this way. Other recent new series like Star Trek Discovery are also sure to be inclusive and diverse, but it's not the raison d'etre of the show or characters. In Discovery there's a gay doctor,  but it's mentioned,  the character shows his feelings and then we get on with the plot. RTD has admitted the message is the important thing, also apparently he said and it's covered in the video, that all previous adventures from 1963 onwards are " baggage " which the 15th Doctor has emotionally overcome and now can restart afresh. All those wonderful stories just baggage to be dumped. The new upcoming season will  be SERIES 1 , a new Disney inspired Americanisation of a once proud British institution. Any doubts about the fans views will be laid bare when the ratings come out. But already excuses are coming out, such as ratings don't count because of streaming and catch up. Also according to RTD every previous Doctor did not regenerate but bi- generated, so all previous Doctors,  4th 5th 10th etc..are out there having adventures to be shown if the BBC choose , recast of course, is this good or undermines the drama of previous regenerations. If you're happy with all this fine, it's a minority view. Go to Planet Mondas, Dr Who forum,  and the opinions of fans there are clear. I've recently rewatched the Ultimate Foe, a mess but enjoyable and even Twin Dilemma is class IMO put up against The Giggle which was basically the last straw for me. Enjoy the show, perhaps I'm too much of an old fogey to get this new stuff, I'll enjoy the old stuff, and proudly wear my complete 4th Doctor outfit including scarf which I have and wallow in the past.

 

You’re criticising a series that hasn’t even been broadcast yet. You’ve decided to hate it before watching it. Honestly, I just don’t get that at all. 

If you don’t enjoy the show anymore, that’s a shame. But others do enjoy it. 

I thought The Giggle was fantastic, and I’ve seen every single surviving episode of the show multiple times to be able to judge it in context.

But that’s just my opinion. I wouldn’t claim to speak on anyone else’s behalf but my own. 

Fan forums are not representative of public opinion. People who like stuff tend not to post in these places, because they can be incredibly toxic and depressing. I never go near them these days, for that very reason. 

Can you imagine what the uproar would have been in 1966 when they decided to invent the notion of regeneration if the internet had existed back then!? Just because something has never been done before doesn’t mean it should never be done. 

Doctor Who is the product of the imagination of hundreds of different writers, producers, directors and actors over 60-plus years. Every era has been different. New ideas, reinventions, constantly evolving, that’s why it’s still on air now. 

The show’s very first producer, Verity Lambert, trashed the original vision of the show’s creator, Sydney Newman, who had insisted there should be no ‘bug-eyed monsters’ in it, when she almost immediately commissioned The Daleks story. Thank goodness she did! 

Russell T Davies, and all those show runners and producers before him, have simply been following in Verity Lambert’s pioneering footsteps by keeping the show fresh, inventive, daring and full of new ideas. Pushing boundaries, not confining themselves within artificial ones. 

The new series features a character called The Doctor, travelling through time and space in a spaceship that’s bigger on the inside than on the outside and looks like a 1960s Police Box.  That’s it. That’s still the show that Sydney Newman and Donald Wilson created in 1963. The greatest show in the galaxy. 

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

I love it, I started this thread, but the show has now been sacrificed on the altar of diversity and political correction. It doesn't have to be this way. 

I genuinely don't understand why oldies care about the current version when it so obviously isn't the programme of old. The one binned in 89 still was. Just remove the aforementioned pantomime elements and bring in new writers.

Worth remembering too that set and special effects shortcomings were less distracting with lashings of Radiophonic Workshop weirdness.

There are parallels with The Tomorrow People. That went through a ropey comedy phase. Then some integrity was restored. Resulting in several well-executed stories. Followed, after a protracted interval, by a 21st century American remake. Very much doubt ageless Brits taking a curious gander would assume any continuity with the ITV series they saw as children.

[unapologetic pedant]

11 minutes ago, John Drake said:

Russell T Davies, and all those show runners and producers before him, have simply been following in Verity Lambert’s pioneering footsteps by keeping the show fresh, inventive, daring and full of new ideas. Pushing boundaries, not confining themselves within artificial ones. 

Rubbish. Everything RTD does is motivated by identity politics.

[HawkMan]

11 minutes ago, unapologetic pedant said:

I genuinely don't understand why oldies care about the current version when it so obviously isn't the programme of old. The one binned in 89 still was. Just remove the aforementioned pantomime elements and bring in new writers.

Worth remembering too that set and special effects shortcomings were less distracting with lashings of Radiophonic Workshop weirdness.

There are parallels with The Tomorrow People. That went through a ropey comedy phase. Then some integrity was restored. Resulting in several well-executed stories. Followed, after a protracted interval, by a 21st century American remake. Very much doubt ageless Brits taking a curious gander would assume any continuity with the ITV series they saw as children.

Agreed, there are very few oldies with the show from the 60's 70's still with it. The problem with reaching out to the audience not connecting with the series because of the lack of diversity,  and yes it was lacking in such areas,  is that you alienate the current dedicated followers.RTD knows this and has given us oldies the choice, join the new soft rebooted show or bog off. I choose the latter.

Edited March 23 by HawkMan

[unapologetic pedant]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

I clicked to four minutes in. The guy is railing against colourblind casting in things that aren't Dr Who. It's probably not that hard to guess the framing for the rest of it.

Slightly off-topic, but I'll give it a whirl.

Castings should be colour-blind. That is not the same as clumsy decisions taken to meet a DEI agenda. Which I suspect is what you would like. Or be seen to like.

The Haile Selassie quote is a helpful guide, "until the colour of a man's skin is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes". Actors are not required to possess the same eye or hair colour as historical characters they are playing in the theatre. Why should skin colour be any different? Audiences use their imagination. Would be absurd to deny non-white British actors opportunities from large swathes of the English literary canon.

Personal superficialities are only relevant if the production is ostensibly more naturalistic. Like when Olivier dyed his hair blonde for the film version of Hamlet.

[John Drake]

On 23/03/2024 at 13:18, unapologetic pedant said:

Rubbish. Everything RTD does is motivated by identity politics.

Aah, so that's why he's brought back Bonnie Langford!

[unapologetic pedant]

Mentioned on one of the cult TV threads that I was never a huge Doctor Who fan. Just remember Saturday teatimes with Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker. Whether I watched was likely determined by the time of year.

There was a retrospective on Channel 5 recently. Which revealed a greater than realized familiarity with the Peter Davidson period. To be honest, the assistants jogged most memories. Few years back when Tegan Berry was playing for Illawarra and NSW under-19s, the name rang a faint bell. Apparently the Australian companion character was called Tegan.

Unclear how well-regarded or otherwise the Davidson years are. The programme was shifted to weekdays, which suggests all was not well. 

Checked on Wiki for any Davros/Dalek encounters. Doubtless marks me out as a philistine. Looks as though "Resurrection of the Daleks" was the extent.

[unapologetic pedant]

2 hours ago, John Drake said:

Aah, so that's why he's brought back Bonnie Langford!

Fine example of a non sequitur. Unless I'm missing something obvious.

Bonnie did very well to have any sort of career. Typecasting could have been a terminal threat to her livelihood after nailing the role of Violet Elizabeth Bott so perfectly. 

[Sidi Fidi Gold]

1 hour ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Mentioned on one of the cult TV threads that I was never a huge Doctor Who fan. Just remember Saturday teatimes with Jon Pertwee and Tom Baker. Whether I watched was likely determined by the time of year.

There was a retrospective on Channel 5 recently. Which revealed a greater than realized familiarity with the Peter Davidson period. To be honest, the assistants jogged most memories. Few years back when Tegan Berry was playing for Illawarra and NSW under-19s, the name rang a faint bell. Apparently the Australian companion character was called Tegan.

Unclear how well-regarded or otherwise the Davidson years are. The programme was shifted to weekdays, which suggests all was not well. 

Checked on Wiki for any Davros/Dalek encounters. Doubtless marks me out as a philistine. Looks as though "Resurrection of the Daleks" was the extent.

As a kid growing up in the 70s, Doctor Who was always on in our house but I couldn't really remember much about it, about 4 years ago I watched every classic episode that was available, on this rewatch, my earliest memory was The Carnival of Monsters when I would have been 3 years old, I also remembered bits from Invasion of the Dinosaurs, The Green Death, Planet of the Spiders, Robot, The Seeds of Doom, The Power of Kroll and Logopolis, I could only remember certain scenes from these episodes and remembered absolutely nothing about the plot, obviously I could remember the Daleks, Cybermen and The Master but these were just generic memories and couldn't pin them to any specific stories.

From a personal point of view, the best period of classic who was from Patrick Troughton through to Tom Bakers 4th series, after that it gets a bit average for my liking.

As for Peter Davison, I liked his take on The Doctor but there were too many average stories for my liking, although his last story, The Caves of Androzani does very well in fan polls .