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14 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Would somebody please just explain how we will suddenly be playing in front of crowds >4k by moving to Wimbledon when we haven't had a 4k crowd in perhaps a decade? We are currently a Championship side with around 700 match day supporters; 1000 if we are in Super League. The fact is that even ETSG is too big for us, especially in the Championship.

Because no way can the Broncos grow at TF

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The point I would re-make here is a strategic one. The Broncos have been at TFSG since 2016 and have incrementally built the fanbase at the same time as incrementally improving the facilities. Alongsi

*handbrake turn emoji*  

In the stands?  

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This will be a disaster for the fledgling Pitshanger Panthers club. We've got a very small group of locals who are being introduced to the game. Moving would mean losing the ground/ relationship with ETRFC and therefore the club would fold. A lack of other suitable facilities in the area, zero finance and a small group of volunteers would mean we couldn't survive this.  How very Rugby League. 

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2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Because no way can the Broncos grow at TF

That doesn't answer the question.

So, please, without inventing any additional investment or change to London Broncos' marketing culture or spend (cos none is coming), explain how the club that's drawing sub 1,000 now at Trailfinders is going to draw an average four times that at a rented football ground in a different area.

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Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

What you're not seeing is that *this time* we're going to be tenants of a different football club to previous times and in an area of London that's been completely disinterested in any code of rugby since forever. We can't fail!

It's as if building a club - including growing a fanbase - is nothing to do with hard work, it's actually based on an alchemic mix of shiny seats and being on the right branch line coming out of the right central London station.

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Just now, Archie Gordon said:

It's as if building a club - including growing a fanbase - is nothing to do with hard work, it's actually based on an alchemic mix of shiny seats and being on the right branch line coming out of the right central London station.

Look, we've literally never been within walking distance of a station with good links to Waterloo before. Never happened. This could be a game changer.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That doesn't answer the question.

So, please, without inventing any additional investment or change to London Broncos' marketing culture or spend (cos none is coming), explain how the club that's drawing sub 1,000 now at Trailfinders is going to draw an average four times that at a rented football ground in a different area.

How did they do it the last time?

Edited by Damien
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On the move itself, I don't think the club should be moving again. You probably lose c20% of the gate each time which has to be built back up. I've watched London at Griffin Park, The Stoop, The Hive, Brisbane Road, Gillingham, Esher and Ealing. Ealing felt good as still room to realistically grow there and could work with the local schools.  

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Just now, Damien said:

How did it do it the last time?

You can either answer the question or not.

Looks like you're going down the "not answering the question" route.

Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. (Terry Pratchett)

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2 minutes ago, RoverBear said:

This will be a disaster for the fledgling Pitshanger Panthers club. We've got a very small group of locals who are being introduced to the game. Moving would mean losing the ground/ relationship with ETRFC and therefore the club would fold. A lack of other suitable facilities in the area, zero finance and a small group of volunteers would mean we couldn't survive this.  How very Rugby League. 

Precisely. And I have a direct interest in this as I'm hoping that our u13s, u14s and/or u16s will be playing you guys in 2021. 

Please hang in there.

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7 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That doesn't answer the question.

So, please, without inventing any additional investment or change to London Broncos' marketing culture or spend (cos none is coming), explain how the club that's drawing sub 1,000 now at Trailfinders is going to draw an average four times that at a rented football ground in a different area.

For starters, Plough Lane is massively better located and connected for Londoners to get to than Trailfinders.

Ealing's facilities are woefully inadequate with poor views. Plough Lane has a safe standing terrace and a £25m main stand with no obstructed views and tonnes of legroom, its own pub, and hospitality facilities with 'club level' upper tiers.

It's also in AFC Wimbledon's interests for a groundshare to be a success so expect some crossover of support and promotion by the football club. 

Edited by Man of Kent
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3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

You can either answer the question or not.

Looks like you're going down the "not answering the question" route.

I'm not and you've not even asked me a question.

I'm asking a genuine question because I'm interested. They've been through this exact scenario before moving from the likes of Barnet Copthall etc to much bigger rented football grounds in completely different areas. I'm asking how did they achieve it then and wondering why it can't be done again.

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1 minute ago, Archie Gordon said:

Precisely. And I have a direct interest in this as I'm hoping that our u13s, u14s and/or u16s will be playing you guys in 2021. 

Please hang in there.

I hope so. It was such hard work to get back after the Pandemic (we lost c40% of numbers at training) that this has made me feel really low in the last few days and quite disillusioned with the sport. 

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14 minutes ago, RoverBear said:

This will be a disaster for the fledgling Pitshanger Panthers club. We've got a very small group of locals who are being introduced to the game. Moving would mean losing the ground/ relationship with ETRFC and therefore the club would fold. A lack of other suitable facilities in the area, zero finance and a small group of volunteers would mean we couldn't survive this.  How very Rugby League. 

I don't know tbf, I could see this being just the pro team at NPL whereas the academy remain on the 4G at Trailfinders 

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5 minutes ago, RoverBear said:

I hope so. It was such hard work to get back after the Pandemic (we lost c40% of numbers at training) that this has made me feel really low in the last few days and quite disillusioned with the sport. 

I wish I could add thanks, sad and like smilies all at once.

But if this is a full relocation to Wimbledon, it could wipe out a lot of community goodwill.

 

 

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15 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

That doesn't answer the question.

So, please, without inventing any additional investment or change to London Broncos' marketing culture or spend (cos none is coming), explain how the club that's drawing sub 1,000 now at Trailfinders is going to draw an average four times that at a rented football ground in a different area.

It reveals part of the answer, getting people into TF is always going to be a struggle because it screams small time. I'd expect Leeds Rhinos crowds to drop by a factor of 4 if we started playing at a ground like Stanningley or Hunslet. Your facilities are part of your ambition as a club and what you are offering to people - if your running out of a park expect crowds to reflect that, at least in part. 

Its not the be all and end all, but it is a large part of what any club can do. Your facilities are ultimately your limitation, set that bar low and that's where you end up.

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The uncertainty is what I find infuriating. People are guessing whether this is the club relocating or just the first team's home matches. If the plan is the latter, why not tell us that wherever the Championship games are going to be played in 2021, the club's base will remain in Ealing. Easy.

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2 minutes ago, RoverBear said:

Interesting, as that was previously seen as one of the biggest plus points of Ealing. 

 

4 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

That is my understanding.

That way it's the best of both worlds imo for the professional club and the academy 

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1 minute ago, Archie Gordon said:

The uncertainty is what I find infuriating. People are guessing whether this is the club relocating or just the first team's home matches. If the plan is the latter, why not tell us that wherever the Championship games are going to be played in 2021, the club's base will remain in Ealing. Easy.

The communication from the club is very poor. 

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41 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Would somebody please just explain how we will suddenly be playing in front of crowds >4k by moving to Wimbledon when we haven't had a 4k crowd in perhaps a decade? We are currently a Championship side with around 700 match day supporters; 1000 if we are in Super League. The fact is that even ETSG is too big for us, especially in the Championship.

Simply put, they won’t. It’s not as simple as where they play and how new the ground is.

London have historically been woeful at communicating with their fans, this move is another example of such woeful communication. A stadium move is a pretty big deal, especially across London. 

They’ve also historically been pretty bad at promoting themselves and getting their voice heard. Admittedly, that’s hard in a city like London but it can’t and shouldn’t be left to AFC Wimbledon to do so that they can help repay these bonds.

History suggests this move will be no different from most and that they’ll be on their way again in a few years, shedding a few more of an ever decreasing amount of fans, disillusioned with the contempt London Broncos treat them with. 

Edited by Hela Wigmen
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20 minutes ago, RoverBear said:

This will be a disaster for the fledgling Pitshanger Panthers club. We've got a very small group of locals who are being introduced to the game. Moving would mean losing the ground/ relationship with ETRFC and therefore the club would fold. A lack of other suitable facilities in the area, zero finance and a small group of volunteers would mean we couldn't survive this.  How very Rugby League. 

Wasn't aware someone had setup a new club in the area, but it does tie with the point I wanted to make about Wimbledon (and the Broncos nomadic existence generally) which is that it almost seems as if they try to avoid having any connection to the existing amateur scene in London when they look at places to move to. Brentford would make sense - SW Chargers, Hammersmith & Wests Warriors all nearby as well as ticking the facilities and public transport boxes.

As far as I am aware there are no amateur clubs within 30mins of Plough Lane? Possibly Brixton Bulls which is c. 45mins away?

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Just now, giasf said:

Wasn't aware someone had setup a new club in the area, but it does tie with the point I wanted to make about Wimbledon (and the Broncos nomadic existence generally) which is that it almost seems as if they try to avoid having any connection to the existing amateur scene in London when they look at places to move to. Brentford would make sense - SW Chargers, Hammersmith & Wests Warriors all nearby as well as ticking the facilities and public transport boxes.

As far as I am aware there are no amateur clubs within 30mins of Plough Lane? Possibly Brixton Bulls which is c. 45mins away?

 

We formed, with the help of the Broncos in January. We played in a 9s tournament pre-pandemic and then 1 game post. Some fantastic athletes from other sports who could go on to stay involved at whatever level - as fans, players or volunteers. 

That's incorrect. There's the Rutlish Raiders Junior team nearby, Richmond Warriors not that far and Brixton are probably at the top end of that 30mins. 

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3 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

But would Hunslet's crowds increase by a factor of 4 if they went back to Elland Road?

No, because all but a tiny handful of RL fans in and around Leeds support the Rhinos, so its a bit of a lost cause imo. Though if they ever did have Super League ambitions then they should be hoping to outgrow their current ground.

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