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UK Women RL Payments


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I know nothing of what women RL players get paid, if anything, in the UK. I did look around the 'net and found this out about minimum payments in Australia:

Domestic: Rugby League $8,500 Aussie rules $16,600, Football $16,350, Rugby 15s Unpaid. 

International: Rugby League $2,000 per match, Aussie Rules (N/A), Rugby Union 7s $44,500 Rugby Union 15s $1,000 per match. 

 

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

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It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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The rumoured signing on the "WSL Round Up" thread was officially announced on Tuesday. Leeds have an interview on their social media with head coach Lois Forsell, talking about the acquisition and multi-tasking.

As far as I`m aware, there are no direct payments by UK RL clubs to their players. There might be expenses of some description? It was in the ether that this was a possible factor in the departures from Cas to York.

It would be interesting to know how the Georgia Roche move from Cas to Leeds came about. Who approached whom? Is it just a social thing? She knows a couple of the Leeds players from her junior days at Dewsbury Moor.

With Leeds bolstering their squad, and Saints likely to get stronger on the back of this year`s success, unless other clubs step up their investment, WSL could settle into a Rangers/Celtic scenario for the foreseeable future.

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5 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The rumoured signing on the "WSL Round Up" thread was officially announced on Tuesday. Leeds have an interview on their social media with head coach Lois Forsell, talking about the acquisition and multi-tasking.

As far as I`m aware, there are no direct payments by UK RL clubs to their players. There might be expenses of some description? It was in the ether that this was a possible factor in the departures from Cas to York.

It would be interesting to know how the Georgia Roche move from Cas to Leeds came about. Who approached whom? Is it just a social thing? She knows a couple of the Leeds players from her junior days at Dewsbury Moor.

With Leeds bolstering their squad, and Saints likely to get stronger on the back of this year`s success, unless other clubs step up their investment, WSL could settle into a Rangers/Celtic scenario for the foreseeable future.

If there is no remuneration for playing other than some expenses, you would think that would lessen player movement. I was reading about this at the BBC website which had a whole (but brief) article on the subject. Georgia stated she sees this move as a chance to progress to a higher level in the sport. She was quoted as saying:

"The team has really high ambitions and expectations and I am looking forward to trying to meet them."

If only a few clubs are perceived as ambitious and attract the best players, this could - as you say - create an imbalanced competition with two or three quality clubs and the rest just making up the numbers. 

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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18 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The rumoured signing on the "WSL Round Up" thread was officially announced on Tuesday. Leeds have an interview on their social media with head coach Lois Forsell, talking about the acquisition and multi-tasking.

As far as I`m aware, there are no direct payments by UK RL clubs to their players. There might be expenses of some description? It was in the ether that this was a possible factor in the departures from Cas to York.

It would be interesting to know how the Georgia Roche move from Cas to Leeds came about. Who approached whom? Is it just a social thing? She knows a couple of the Leeds players from her junior days at Dewsbury Moor.

With Leeds bolstering their squad, and Saints likely to get stronger on the back of this year`s success, unless other clubs step up their investment, WSL could settle into a Rangers/Celtic scenario for the foreseeable future.

I think you can add York Knights into the mix too, they are adding a couple more quality players soon and they’re squad is very young so they’ll push Leeds & Saints. Other clubs will know they need to invest more to compete.

Everything under the sun is in tune

But the sun is eclipsed by the moon

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On 18/10/2021 at 22:48, RayCee said:

I know nothing of what women RL players get paid, if anything, in the UK. I did look around the 'net and found this out about minimum payments in Australia:

Domestic: Rugby League $8,500 Aussie rules $16,600, Football $16,350, Rugby 15s Unpaid. 

It`s been announced that Queensland Origin players will be paid $15 000 in 2022.

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On 11/11/2021 at 18:26, unapologetic pedant said:

It`s been announced that Queensland Origin players will be paid $15 000 in 2022.

Yeah, I read that too. That brings it into line with two other codes.

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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On 18/10/2021 at 22:48, RayCee said:

International: Rugby League $2,000 per match, Aussie Rules (N/A), Rugby Union 7s $44,500 Rugby Union 15s $1,000 per match. 

I`d be curious to know where the $44.5k RU 7s money comes from. How much is from World Rugby, how much is public funding via the Australian Olympic Committee?

Aussie 7s player Emma Tonegato has just signed for Dragons NRLW. She`s a former Jillaroo, played in the 2013 Women`s RLWC, before being poached by the ARU.

Another of their high-profile players Ellia Green has also announced she`s leaving the ARU 7s programme. No word on her future plans, but she`s only 28.

This all indicates that without the goal of making the Olympics squad, the attraction of the World 7s circuit might not be too strong. Or that the ARU are struggling to defray their part of the cost of funding the programme.

For the foreseeable future there`s little chance of women being paid much if anything to play RL in the UK. Perhaps the most feasible model is for women to combine playing with various paid roles off the field. They are more likely than the men to view such opportunities as a vocation, meaning the game gets more bang for buck.

Jodie Cunningham has just been appointed "National women and girls development manager". I think the recently-retired Andrea Dobson is a development officer in Sheffield. Not sure if these are full-time jobs.

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Do you see women players in the UK ever getting a reasonable remuneration? I suggested elsewhere there is potential but don’t think there’s much belief it will ever come to much.

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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15 hours ago, RayCee said:

Do you see women players in the UK ever getting a reasonable remuneration? I suggested elsewhere there is potential but don’t think there’s much belief it will ever come to much.

It’s hard to say. 🤔 The skill is on the up but the problem is will it ever be Super League standard. Some decent crowds have been turning up to watch key matches and I get the impression media viewing figures aren’t bad either. Time will tell but as always you raise good points worth considering.

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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18 hours ago, RayCee said:

Do you see women players in the UK ever getting a reasonable remuneration? I suggested elsewhere there is potential but don’t think there’s much belief it will ever come to much.

 

2 hours ago, RayCee said:

It’s hard to say. 🤔 The skill is on the up but the problem is will it ever be Super League standard. Some decent crowds have been turning up to watch key matches and I get the impression media viewing figures aren’t bad either. Time will tell but as always you raise good points worth considering.

You appear to be conversing with a doppelganger here.

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18 hours ago, RayCee said:

Do you see women players in the UK ever getting a reasonable remuneration? I suggested elsewhere there is potential but don’t think there’s much belief it will ever come to much.

 

On 14/11/2021 at 07:35, unapologetic pedant said:

For the foreseeable future there`s little chance of women being paid much if anything to play RL in the UK.

According to @The Blues Ox on a general forum thread, the number of girl players who also watch the game is "very low" compared to the boys. That would need to change. There will have to be a sufficiently large audience demonstrably willing to pay to watch women`s RL, in grounds and on TV, and I can`t see that emerging from the existing male fanbase. 

Junior girls registrations topped two thousand this year. If every one of those, with a handful of family and friends, had attended the WSL GF (in the cultural pilgrimage way people used to go to the RL CC final), the crowd would have been in five figures.

At present, virtually all the funding for the women`s game is linked to the men`s game. That dependent relationship, particularly in UK RL`s reduced circumstances, inevitably means crumbs from the table. The pro clubs and their players will resist the diversion of resources into payments for women.

There are echoes of the Trade Union movement. The female members of my family always bitterly resented having to pay union subscriptions. For the unions, men`s pay was uppermost. Women would only secure a rise if a corresponding deal could be negotiated for the men that maintained the pay differentials between work traditionally done by men and work traditionally done by women.

Which raises another point mentioned on the general forum thread - whether it`s better for WSL teams to be under the aegis of pro or community clubs. Specific case was Leigh or Leigh Miners. In general, I wouldn`t trust pro club owners. How important is a women`s team to them? Whereas the female section at Leigh Miners is now integral to the success of the club.

A few years ago I read about a junior RL club in Western NSW whose playing numbers were so low the future of the club was in jeopardy. So they initiated a League Tag programme. The interest from women and girls far exceeded anything they were expecting. It resulted in a revival of the club. There are similar stories across NSW RL. When a club`s health, even their very existence, depends on female participation, that`s when women will be prioritized for funding.

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5 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

 

You appear to be conversing with a doppelganger here.

It was a lighthearted acknowledgment that this end of the forum is all but ignored so desperate measures are sometimes needed to keep a discussion going.

  • Haha 1

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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On 11/11/2021 at 18:26, unapologetic pedant said:

It`s been announced that Queensland Origin players will be paid $15 000 in 2022.

Is there enough public interest to get a return on this outlay? If so, I would imagine it’s based mainly on returns from tv viewers rather than crowd numbers at the game. I think some negativity to the potential of the women’s game is based on low crowd figures rather than how many would sit in an armchair and enjoy the spectacle*.

All of which makes the comparison with the game in the UK a stark contrast. No payments up yonder. I know the NRL has more income but the fact that there is no remuneration in England at all gives the impression it simply isn’t generating enough interest to warrant it. 

*I personally have grown to enjoy the women’s game on the media but wouldn’t to go to a live game unless family were involved.

Edited by RayCee

My blog: https://rugbyl.blogspot.co.nz/

It takes wisdom to know when a discussion has run its course.

It takes reasonableness to end that discussion. 

 

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16 hours ago, RayCee said:

*I personally have grown to enjoy the women’s game on the media but wouldn’t to go to a live game unless family were involved.

It`s disappointing that someone who takes an off-field interest still wouldn`t go to games, but it does underline my argument that fans of women`s RL are unlikely to come from the existing fanbase.

Other traditionally male-dominated sports have decades head start on RL in generating an attendance culture specifically for women`s games. Soccer especially, even in Oz. Minimal international RL competition is a hindrance too.

16 hours ago, RayCee said:

Is there enough public interest to get a return on this outlay? If so, I would imagine it’s based mainly on returns from tv viewers rather than crowd numbers at the game. I think some negativity to the potential of the women’s game is based on low crowd figures rather than how many would sit in an armchair and enjoy the spectacle*.

There are clearly lots of women and girls who attend men`s RL games who would be no more likely than you to go to women`s games. Feminist critics of the NRL like Katie Brown and Mary Konstantopoulos overlook this point.

If all the women and girls who have a link with RL, either as players or spectators at men`s games, could be relied upon to support women`s games, they would be able to establish their own separate revenue streams.

It`s limiting for all women`s sports when they run concurrently in markets already saturated by the equivalent men`s game. The only significant exception was Soccer in the USA. Even there, the storyline is full of vicissitudes.

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17 hours ago, RayCee said:

It was a lighthearted acknowledgment that this end of the forum is all but ignored so desperate measures are sometimes needed to keep a discussion going.

Looking again at the post where you`re talking to yourself, it reads a bit like a ventriloquist act.

I thought I was on to something with Ray Alan and Lord Charles. But that would be Ray A and Lord Cee.

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The response in NSW to QRL`s announcement of pay parity (it isn`t really parity when you see the details) for men`s and women`s Origin players has been less than ebullient. -

"Yes, we all agree with parity and payments but there`s also the question about how do you fund it" ?

"We agree with the premise, but there`s only a certain amount of money in the pool".

Suggestions the Blues men might have to take a pay cut. I hear lead balloons falling.

It`s understandable in the context that the predicted sponsorship revenue for men`s Origin is $5 million. Equivalent figure for women`s Origin is $100 000.

A NRL CEO is quoted - "The men support the women`s game, no doubt. But I wonder whether that support might wane if it actually hurts them in their hip pocket".

Don`t think we need to wonder too long to find the answer to that one.

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On 15/11/2021 at 13:43, unapologetic pedant said:

 

Which raises another point mentioned on the general forum thread - whether it`s better for WSL teams to be under the aegis of pro or community clubs. Specific case was Leigh or Leigh Miners. In general, I wouldn`t trust pro club owners. How important is a women`s team to them? Whereas the female section at Leigh Miners is now integral to the success of the club.

I can only comment that at York, the commitment that the Knights made this year to women's RL has proved to be a win-win.  Broadening the fanbase, whilst the double-header home matches have been a real success, with over a 1000 (by my reckoning) staying to watch WSL. So, bigger crowds and better value entertainment for the men's fixtures, and far higher levels of exposure and live support for the women's game.

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6 hours ago, RBKnight said:

I can only comment that at York, the commitment that the Knights made this year to women's RL has proved to be a win-win.  Broadening the fanbase, whilst the double-header home matches have been a real success, with over a 1000 (by my reckoning) staying to watch WSL. So, bigger crowds and better value entertainment for the men's fixtures, and far higher levels of exposure and live support for the women's game.

I agree this is currently the best model to justify pro club investment in a women`s team. But it is a dependent relationship.

Women`s RL, even at WSL level, is effectively grass roots RL. Therefore, links with a pro club are only fruitful if the owners are sufficiently enterprising to recognize the relevance of the community game to the size of their fanbase.

If Jon Flatman moved on, to be replaced by the sort of dozy dolt we`re more familiar with in pro RL, would the current imaginative outlook and policies survive?

When women`s standalone games can draw decent crowds and TV audiences, even the short-termist narrow-minded bean counters will see the value. It`s ultimately up to women and girls to make that happen.

From memory, in the 3 years of NRLW, all but 2 of the fixtures have been played alongside men`s NRL games. So up until 2020 they clearly didn`t think NRLW was strong enough to hold its own. The 2 rounds of all-women`s triple-headers next year will provide an interesting gauge.

BTW, I`ve never been able to decide whether it`s better to play women`s games before or after men`s games at double-headers. - Swings and roundabouts.

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On 20/11/2021 at 04:36, unapologetic pedant said:

 

Women`s RL, even at WSL level, is effectively grass roots RL. Therefore, links with a pro club are only fruitful if the owners are sufficiently enterprising to recognize the relevance of the community game to the size of their fanbase.

If Jon Flatman moved on, to be replaced by the sort of dozy dolt we`re more familiar with in pro RL, would the current imaginative outlook and policies survive?

Admittedly, not all clubs will be in York's position geographically - being the only local pro club for the community game to relate to. Nonetheless, York could offer a model for many currently down-at heel-clubs about the possibilities of regeneration via community engagement and support.

Once the benefits are seen, in terms of sponsorships, media engagement, community involvement and season ticket sales (all generating income) I hope we can move beyond "imaginative outlooks" and realise that this is the way forward for the game in general.....

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10 hours ago, RBKnight said:

Admittedly, not all clubs will be in York's position geographically - being the only local pro club for the community game to relate to. 

There are presently a few parallels between York and Barrow. One dissimilarity is that Barrow are a lot further from RL hubs than York are from W. Yorks. So they won`t be able to instantly lift their women`s team to another level as York did with the signings from Cas. Not unless they really splashed some cash.

 

10 hours ago, RBKnight said:

 Nonetheless, York could offer a model for many currently down-at heel-clubs about the possibilities of regeneration via community engagement and support.

Once the benefits are seen, in terms of sponsorships, media engagement, community involvement and season ticket sales (all generating income) I hope we can move beyond "imaginative outlooks" and realise that this is the way forward for the game in general.....

In my view, this has always been the only model for UK RL that stands a chance of succeeding. But even when our pro clubs have a wealthy owner, he`s more likely to channel resources into top-down wish-fulfilment fantasies than painstaking grass roots development.

Apparently, the 28-player England RU women`s squad who overwhelmed all opposition in their autumn internationals are on full-time contracts.

I fear it won`t be long before some of our best young female RL players will be attracted across. Either by a direct offer, or just informally seeing Union as a more propitious route to a career as a professional athlete.

In Oz, about 5-10 years ago, they were losing female League juniors to the Australian 7s programme. They`ve been able to remedy the problem through investment in NRLW and superior State competitions at open-age and junior rep level. We just don`t have the means to emulate that.

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