Fri 8th Sept: SL: Huddersfield Giants v Hull Kingston Rovers KO 19:45

[daz39]

12 minutes ago, GIANTSTRIDES said:

Sadly i fear you are right Daz, More new players next year same dreary style.

Or players who will actually want to do what the coach asks to help the team succeed?

[DG70]

4 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Sacking coaches will not help us one bit, we need stability, we won't get it by sacking another coach because he hasn't won us a trophy yet, everytime we do we then have to start again and undo everything thhe previous coach did and put in place, Watto was given 5 years to sort the club out, we excelled ourselves last year. 

I will judge Watto on the state he leaves the club in not on how many trophies he's won us, if he gets the culture and attitude right we're onto a winner, that's what makes winning teams not just hoping a new coach will get lucky.

Sorry, I disagree, if the coach is not good enough (he isn't) then you replace him with someone else, if in your workplace someone was continually under performing and not good enough at his job then do you stick with him or get someone else? The same principle applies.

[daz39]

4 minutes ago, DG70 said:

Sorry, I disagree, if the coach is not good enough (he isn't) then you replace him with someone else, if in your workplace someone was continually under performing and not good enough at his job then do you stick with him or get someone else? The same principle applies.

What are you judging him on? was he not good enough last year?

In my view there is more to being a good coach than the position on the table, i want a coach who gets a squad full of players who believe in themselves and each other, who want to do what their asked to and who care about doing things better, some of these players we have here clearly don't, look how well the squad performed last year when the ones who Watto filtered out as not being dedicated enough were gone, this year he's already admitted we got too many bodies in and this has affected team morale and desire, again he will know which ones aren't right.

I'm more than happy to continue and let him finish the job he's started, i have had plenty of face to face chats with Ian and i see and hear his frustration at this year's disaster and his determination to get it right, he knows exactly where the issues lie.

Also if we're going down the route of sacking people for underperforming we'd have about 7 players in the squad.

[meast]

On the game, I agree with what others have said, neither side was really brilliant, Rovers just the more composed and executed their chances better.

I don't think Huddersfield played too bad, we just couldn't execute our chances, then our discipline went to total pot, giving away numerous penalties on the 5th tackle for example, giving away penalties when in possession because they're trying to cut corners and "win" a set restart or penalty, just do your jobs, get tackled, play the ball and get on with the game and stop hoping the ref will help you out.

Again, agree with @daz39the KR fans were very good last night and backed their team superbly well.

Regarding Watson, as Daz has already stated, his appointment was more than just a quick fix, Stone, Woolford style, he was sought after to bring a different culture and ethic to the playing side of things, which he has done behind the scenes, admittedly, 2023 hasn't been a great year, but he was given a 5 year plan and there's 2 left of it, the board always stated that while winning silverware wasn't a priority, it was to be hoped that within that 5 years there would be something to show for it, again, what will the future look like once Watson has moved on?

Bringing in and sacking coaches over the last few years had been a mess, no continuity, players on deals that the new coach didn't fancy and couldn't get rid of, hopefully Watson and his staff can identify players who can take that culture forward for the better.

Who knows whether he's deemed a success apart from his employers?

[DoubleD]

Attended courtesy of hospitality, it was a good enjoyable game, Hull KR just had a little more quality and cohesiveness. 

The Giants have gone for quantity over quality and it’s showing. The lack of pace in the backline is noticeable with Jerry and Naiqama in their final stage of their careers. Pryce the only real player capable of making a line break. Marsters has been disappointing. Then in the pack they also have a lot of average players with Hill and Ikahifo the standout. McQueen has noticeably dropped off in his performances and likely to also be his final year. Next year will likely be a rebuild job but when they lose their best young players (Young, Wardle, Pryce), it’s difficult for them to sustain their development.

Credit to big Earl who was a great host and Luke Robinson who took time to answer questions and provide some meaningful insight into the game plan 

Edited September 10, 2023 by DoubleD

[meast]

2 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Attended courtesy of hospitality, it was a good enjoyable game, Hull KR just had a little more quality and cohesiveness. 

The Giants have gone for quantity over quality and it’s showing. The lack of pace in the backline is noticeable with Jerry and Naiqama in their final stage of their careers. Pryce the only real player capable of making a line break. Marsters has been disappointing. Then in the pack they also have a lot of average players with Hill and Ikahifo the standout. McQueen has noticeably dropped off in his performances and likely to also be his final year. Next year will likely be a rebuild job but when they lose their best young players (Young, Wardle, Pryce), it’s difficult for them to sustain their development.

Credit to big Earl who was a great host and Luke Robinson who took time to answer questions and provide some meaningful insight into the game plan 

Can't argue with much of that except to say that Jerry and Kev are still producing quality efforts, although now suspect in defence and we have some good, quality in the forwards, Greenwood, English, Wilson, who would all be regulars in the national side had they played in different colours.

Marsters has had a rough time, but I believe we could see the best of him next year?

We have some decent young lads ready to step up next year, McGowan, Rush, Rogers, possibly Billington and a couple more from the academy system.

Not sure we need to rebuild, we have the makings of a good side, we just need it settling, still not convinced Connor was needed, and still think his signing disrupted the balance of the side, with a fit Ollie Russell along side Clune and Lolohea/Rush/Connor to step in, we have decent looking pivots, we really need a dymanic 9, Milner/Peats/AOB are decent but we need more dynamism to get us on the front foot.

[DoubleD]

5 hours ago, meast said:

Can't argue with much of that except to say that Jerry and Kev are still producing quality efforts, although now suspect in defence and we have some good, quality in the forwards, Greenwood, English, Wilson, who would all be regulars in the national side had they played in different colours.

Marsters has had a rough time, but I believe we could see the best of him next year?

We have some decent young lads ready to step up next year, McGowan, Rush, Rogers, possibly Billington and a couple more from the academy system.

Not sure we need to rebuild, we have the makings of a good side, we just need it settling, still not convinced Connor was needed, and still think his signing disrupted the balance of the side, with a fit Ollie Russell along side Clune and Lolohea/Rush/Connor to step in, we have decent looking pivots, we really need a dymanic 9, Milner/Peats/AOB are decent but we need more dynamism to get us on the front foot.

I agree that Jerry and Naiqama are still producing but both their best is behind them - they’re not as quick or game breaking as they used to be.

I disagree that any of Greenwood, Wilson and English would be regular internationals elsewhere. They’re decent, solid players but no more. Trout on the other hand does have potential for international quality, hence why he was so much in demand. Another loss for the Giants.

Rogers gave a half time interview for us, really nice lad………..he looked quite small/slight though for a prop? 

The halves/full back are definitely not a concern, particularly with Clune coming. Hooker is a problem though and the signing of Peats and Milner really make me question Watson’s decision making on recruitment 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by DoubleD

[phiggins]

Looking at the remaining fixtures, Hull KR have a good chance of getting 4th place now.

[GIANTSTRIDES]

On 10/09/2023 at 16:23, meast said:

Can't argue with much of that except to say that Jerry and Kev are still producing quality efforts, although now suspect in defence and we have some good, quality in the forwards, Greenwood, English, Wilson, who would all be regulars in the national side had they played in different colours.

Marsters has had a rough time, but I believe we could see the best of him next year?

We have some decent young lads ready to step up next year, McGowan, Rush, Rogers, possibly Billington and a couple more from the academy system.

Not sure we need to rebuild, we have the makings of a good side, we just need it settling, still not convinced Connor was needed, and still think his signing disrupted the balance of the side, with a fit Ollie Russell along side Clune and Lolohea/Rush/Connor to step in, we have decent looking pivots, we really need a dymanic 9, Milner/Peats/AOB are decent but we need more dynamism to get us on the front foot.

Only one of those three hookers would be retained for next year for me meast. I'm interested to  note you are not convinced by the signing of Conner, I agree he is not the fastest of players but then who have we got in the squad that fit that criteria, He has a lot of experience and has had a hand in many of the tries later in this season with his bullet like pass to the wingers, He is far from Mr Watsons worst signings this year for me . The other thing is how many of the other S league sides do you recon Russel would get into, I'm genuinely interested in your opinion of him and why you hold it. He should have all he needs to be a quality half but for some reason he just doesn't cut it for me, But if he's being coached to play to a strict plan and forget about any flair and off the cuff stuff then maybe that could answer some questions. End of the day we have gone backwards this season in results with exactly the same style, What do you recon do you think we are going to get anywhere under Mr Watson

[daz39]

2 hours ago, GIANTSTRIDES said:

Only one of those three hookers would be retained for next year for me meast. I'm interested to  note you are not convinced by the signing of Conner, I agree he is not the fastest of players but then who have we got in the squad that fit that criteria, He has a lot of experience and has had a hand in many of the tries later in this season with his bullet like pass to the wingers, He is far from Mr Watsons worst signings this year for me . The other thing is how many of the other S league sides do you recon Russel would get into, I'm genuinely interested in your opinion of him and why you hold it. He should have all he needs to be a quality half but for some reason he just doesn't cut it for me, But if he's being coached to play to a strict plan and forget about any flair and off the cuff stuff then maybe that could answer some questions. End of the day we have gone backwards this season in results with exactly the same style, What do you recon do you think we are going to get anywhere under Mr Watson

If they were looking for a solid, reliable, hard working, no frills half back then most of them!,

Russell is not flashy but doesn't need to be, he gets on with his role and does it very well.

It's no coincidence that our bad run came to and end and our possible play-offs hopes improved when he returned from injury.

Russ isn't flash, he doesn't score wonder tries or create loads for others he lays the foundations for others to do that, he is a vital cog in our machine and is probably one of the 1st names on the team sheet for me but more importantly our coaching staff.

[GIANTSTRIDES]

15 hours ago, daz39 said:

If they were looking for a solid, reliable, hard working, no frills half back then most of them!,

Russell is not flashy but doesn't need to be, he gets on with his role and does it very well.

It's no coincidence that our bad run came to and end and our possible play-offs hopes improved when he returned from injury.

Russ isn't flash, he doesn't score wonder tries or create loads for others he lays the foundations for others to do that, he is a vital cog in our machine and is probably one of the 1st names on the team sheet for me but more importantly our coaching staff.

Fair enough Daz, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree about Russell, He's probably playing exactly as hes being told

[DoubleD]

1 hour ago, GIANTSTRIDES said:

Fair enough Daz, I guess we are going to have to agree to disagree about Russell, He's probably playing exactly as hes being told

Interestingly when Fenton Rogers was questioned at half time, as to who had impressed him most/stood out since pre-season, his response was Olly Russell

[daz39]

2 hours ago, DoubleD said:

Interestingly when Fenton Rogers was questioned at half time, as to who had impressed him most/stood out since pre-season, his response was Olly Russell

A lot of our fans expect all our half-backs to be world class with silky skills and flair so a lot are disappointed with Olly Russell cos he doesn't do that - yet they moan at our maverick half-backs for not being more controlling, weird lot.

Olly Russell is a fine player, one of the best in the business at his role.

[DoubleD]

18 minutes ago, daz39 said:

A lot of our fans expect all our half-backs to be world class with silky skills and flair so a lot are disappointed with Olly Russell cos he doesn't do that - yet they moan at our maverick half-backs for not being more controlling, weird lot.

Olly Russell is a fine player, one of the best in the business at his role.

He's a similar style player to Marc Sneyd. He doesn't have quite as good kicking game but he is better in defence. The ability to lead a team around the park is an often overlooked quality that half backs require

[daz39]

16 minutes ago, DoubleD said:

He's a similar style player to Marc Sneyd. He doesn't have quite as good kicking game but he is better in defence. The ability to lead a team around the park is an often overlooked quality that half backs require

Exactly, he does exactly what he is meant to do and do it very well.

[GIANTSTRIDES]

22 hours ago, daz39 said:

A lot of our fans expect all our half-backs to be world class with silky skills and flair so a lot are disappointed with Olly Russell cos he doesn't do that - yet they moan at our maverick half-backs for not being more controlling, weird lot.

Olly Russell is a fine player, one of the best in the business at his role.

So Daz with a set of forwards who buy and large have held their own with most sides for the last two seasons at least as regards field position, Halves , one of which you claim is one of the best , why are we such a poor side.

[daz39]

6 hours ago, GIANTSTRIDES said:

So Daz with a set of forwards who buy and large have held their own with most sides for the last two seasons at least as regards field position, Halves , one of which you claim is one of the best , why are we such a poor side.

Because we have no pace in the side and get caught defensively on our edges time and again, also we have no problem gaining field position but we generally as a team fail to make the correct decisions in and around the tryline.

We weren't a poor side last year by any means, our main problem this year has been key players not replaced with equal quality or key players either not being available or not being up to fitness to perform at the standards we set last year.

As i said our form improved dramatically when Rusty was back in the side, as a fan you either like him or you don't, i do and you clearly don't so let's leave it at that.