International squads

[UTK]

2 hours ago, Mojo said:

The outs are really disappointing, particularly Taumalolo who is unavailable for this tour yet is making his boxing debut in a couple of days.

Positive view is that both Tonga and Samoa now have a genuine crop of young halves who are considered among the best in their respective age groups. 

Tonga in particular look well set for the future now: 

• Lolohea (28yo) - Established 
• Isaiya Katoa (19yo) - Uncontroversially the best halves prospect in the game under 20
• Latu Fainu (18yo) - Highest touted half not to have played first-grade, poached by the Tigers for next season. Manly had been allegedly paying him 400k/year at since he'd just turned 17.
• Dion Teaupa (21yo) - Heir apparent to Cody Walkers 5/8 spot at South Sydney, led the Souths NSW Cup side to a premiership and subsequent state championship this year.

With Soni Luke out I'm somewhat surprised the didn't take Taniela Otukolo as a hooker backup with one eye on the future there.

[StandOffHalf]

Koula is a real jack-in-the-box and has class as a support player.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Will Hopoate in the centres if he's fit. 

[StandOffHalf]

What, Taumalolo is going to be boxing in a few days??? I hadn't heard.

Tonga will struggle when it comes to a replacement dummy half. Koloamatangi could be dropped in there at a pinch, but I thought they really lacked incisiveness when he was there at the World Cup.

[NRLandSL]

3 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Koula is a real jack-in-the-box and has class as a support player.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Will Hopoate in the centres if he's fit. 

I don’t think the Tongan squad is bad but is nothing compared to the English, Especially in the back line. England have two of the best players in the world in Williams and Halfback and Welsby 1 or 6, They also have arguably the two best wingers in the world in Makinson and Young aswell as having probably the best centre in the world in Farnworth.

Not to Mention practically other world class players like, Lomax, Walmsley, Knowles Etc.

[NRLandSL]

Also worth Mentioning only 2 Tongan born players in the entire squad, pretty disappointing that there’s no urge or want to develop the game in Tonga.

[StandOffHalf]

15 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

I don’t think the Tongan squad is bad but is nothing compared to the English, Especially in the back line. England have two of the best players in the world in Williams and Halfback and Welsby 1 or 6, They also have arguably the two best wingers in the world in Makinson and Young aswell as having probably the best centre in the world in Farnworth.

Not to Mention practically other world class players like, Lomax, Walmsley, Knowles Etc.

I agree with this analysis. I think England have to be considerable favourites.

Welsby will be the English No.1 I think.

Edited October 4, 2023 by StandOffHalf

[AB90]

29 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

In my opinion England will Wipe the floor with that team. Can’t see this being a competitive series. Tongan back line is incredibly weak, especially coming up against the English.

I would be hesitant in locking in a dominant English win until you have actually seen the squad. Like with all the international squads, there will be numerous withdrawals, injuries, suspensions etc. 

And still, even at full strength I would still expect a very competitive series and wouldn’t be surprised with a Tongan victory. All be it, I lean towards a tight England series win with the home field advantage.

[Mojo]

53 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

In my opinion England will Wipe the floor with that team. Can’t see this being a competitive series. Tongan back line is incredibly weak, especially coming up against the English.

I remember a few in here said the same thing about the Samoan team last year lol

[Mojo]

1 hour ago, UTK said:

Shaun Johnson, Brandon Smith, Jeremy Marshall-King, Dallin Watene-Zelezniak, Marata Niukore, Scott Sorensen, Jordan RIki, Jared Waerea-Hargreaves. 

All a mixture of surgery/suspension mainly.

Dallin Watene-Zelezniak is with Tonga now, even tho he's out injured he has pledged his alliance to Tonga in the future

[UTK]

37 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

What, Taumalolo is going to be boxing in a few days??? I hadn't heard.

Tonga will struggle when it comes to a replacement dummy half. Koloamatangi could be dropped in there at a pinch, but I thought they really lacked incisiveness when he was there at the World Cup.

Havili has effectively been playing as a prop for 2 seasons now so won't be prepared to do big minutes at 9, they could well start with Keaon at 9 for the first 20 but I suspect they will take a 14 in each game. 

Given Woolf is the coach I wouldn't be surprised to see them use a strategy regularly employed at the Dolphins this season - Isaiya Katoa starts in the halves with one of Teaupa or Fainu at 14. When it becomes time to rotate Havili, Katoa will move to 9 and the 14 will take his place in the halves. Unorthodox strategy but I think Tonga may have even done the same in the pool stages of the WC.

[StandOffHalf]

Just now, UTK said:

Havili has effectively been playing as a prop for 2 seasons now so won't be prepared to do big minutes at 9, they could well start with Keaon at 9 for the first 20 but I suspect they will take a 14 in each game. 

Given Woolf is the coach I wouldn't be surprised to see them use a strategy regularly employed at the Dolphins this season - Isaiya Katoa starts in the halves with one of Teaupa or Fainu at 14. When it becomes time to rotate Havili, Katoa will move to 9 and the 14 will take his place in the halves. Unorthodox strategy but I think Tonga may have even done the same in the pool stages of the WC.

Going with only Havili, means that they are going to have to be inventive in how they juggle things around.

Thanks for the Dolphins info. They could go with that.

[Mojo]

41 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

I don’t think the Tongan squad is bad but is nothing compared to the English, Especially in the back line. England have two of the best players in the world in Williams and Halfback and Welsby 1 or 6, They also have arguably the two best wingers in the world in Makinson and Young aswell as having probably the best centre in the world in Farnworth.

Not to Mention practically other world class players like, Lomax, Walmsley, Knowles Etc.

2 best wingers? Damn I didn't know Brian To'os retired

[Mojo]

England should be the favourites in this series but it's far from a walkover lol Tongan team is stacked with talent and a legit halfback that's played a full season in the nrl.

[Dunbar]

18 minutes ago, Mojo said:

I remember a few in here said the same thing about the Samoan team last year lol

No they didn't.

[Mojo]

10 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

No they didn't.

You must have amnesia my friend

[UTK]

Nathan Cleary withdraws from the Kangaroos squad following an injury sustained in the GF, Nicho Hynes replaces him in the squad.

[Mojo]

4 minutes ago, UTK said:

Nathan Cleary withdraws from the Kangaroos squad following an injury sustained in the GF, Nicho Hynes replaces him in the squad.

Big loss but the kangaroos don't look worse tbh. The depth they have to not select Walsh and Ponga is crazy

Edited October 4, 2023 by Mojo

[UTK]

1 minute ago, Mojo said:

Big loss but the kangaroos don't look worse tbh. The depth they to not select Walsh and Ponga is crazy

DCE's record playing for the Kangaroos against the big nations is dreadful, has never made the step up to International level the same way he has for Origin. 

[The Rocket]

1 hour ago, NRLandSL said:

Also worth Mentioning only 2 Tongan born players in the entire squad, pretty disappointing that there’s no urge or want to develop the game in Tonga.

They beat England and I`ll guarantee it`ll develop the game in Tonga.

[Dunbar]

41 minutes ago, Mojo said:

You must have amnesia my friend

Yes, you are right.  I have just been back and had a look and some people were predicting that England would wipe the floor with Samoa.  Most weren't but enough to agree you were right in your post.

[NRLandSL]

6 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

They beat England and I`ll guarantee it`ll develop the game in Tonga.

For me I want to see a direct pathway from the Tongan domestic game to first grade, we’ve seen the same happen in PNG and Fiji with Kaiviti and the Hunters and if there’s so much intrest in rugby league in Tonga it shouldn’t be a problem. 

And Also I want to see a plan in the long term to shift away from heritage players, A few heritage players is okay but when the majority of the squad is born and raised outside the country it makes the international game seem a bit illegitimate. 

It’s Definitely not Tonga only doing this though, Basically every nation with a wealth of heritage players does it but I just felt it was worth mentioning as in my eyes it’s the biggest problem we have in international rugby league.

But also I get that every team is going to pick the best players even if they are from the country or not, So it’s not there issue but the people at the top of the IRL have to develop a long term strategy to shift away from the use of heritage players. Even if this does mean less competitive matches in the short term it will help develop the international game properly over the long term.

Also we really have to spend time and money on developing the nations who have a strong domestic game and consistently produce professional players.

There are only 7 nations who do this-

Australia 

New Zealand

England

France

Papua New Guinea

Wales

Fiji

There’s so much talent in all of those nations, France and Wales used to be former powerhouses and can produce world class talent. Papua New Guinea have probably the second largest player base in the world behind Australia and have some crazy athletes same with Fiji who have a strong domestic game.

 

[NRLandSL]

2 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:

I agree with this analysis. I think England have to be considerable favourites.

Welsby will be the English No.1 I think.

Who would say to Partner Williams in the halves for England. 

Personally I would say Lomax I think he still so talented but wouldn’t be surprised if says no to the call up because of that shoulder. But Dodd and Smith have looked really strong young 7s for Saints and Wigan respectively, Both with expert kicking games. Mikey Lewis has been tearing the SL to shreds and is one of my personal favourites. 

Also Rogue shouts like Sneyd who had a great World Cup, and Jordan Abdull is a very underrated player. Even Hastings could put his hand up who is very safe option. 

 

Edited October 4, 2023 by NRLandSL

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, Mojo said:

2 best wingers? Damn I didn't know Brian To'os retired

I said 2 of the best, To’o is up there for sure

[UTK]

13 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

For me I want to see a direct pathway from the Tongan domestic game to first grade, we’ve seen the same happen in PNG and Fiji with Kaiviti and the Hunters and if there’s so much intrest in rugby league in Tonga it shouldn’t be a problem. 

And Also I want to see a plan in the long term to shift away from heritage players, A few heritage players is okay but when the majority of the squad is born and raised outside the country it makes the international game seem a bit illegitimate. 

It’s Definitely not Tonga only doing this though, Basically every nation with a wealth of heritage players does it but I just felt it was worth mentioning as in my eyes it’s the biggest problem we have in international rugby league.

But also I get that every team is going to pick the best players even if they are from the country or not, So it’s not there issue but the people at the top of the IRL have to develop a long term strategy to shift away from the use of heritage players. Even if this does mean less competitive matches in the short term it will help develop the international game properly over the long term.

Also we really have to spend time and money on developing the nations who have a strong domestic game and consistently produce professional players.

There are only 7 nations who do this-

Australia 

New Zealand

England

France

Papua New Guinea

Wales

Fiji

There’s so much talent in all of those nations, France and Wales used to be former powerhouses and can produce world class talent. Papua New Guinea have probably the second largest player base in the world behind Australia and have some crazy athletes same with Fiji who have a strong domestic game.

 

The Tongan RL "emergence" only really begun in 2017 following the famous defections from AUS/NZ and their WC run. Considering the circumstances of the world in the 6 years following that emergence Tonga is still in the process of capitialising upon that success in respect of their professional pathways. 

This year saw the Inaugural Tonga Schoolboys (u16s) tour of Australia, the side played matches against NRL teams junior representative sides across Australia and exposed their domestic talent to NRL pathways. Following this tour, 4 of those Tongan schoolboys have been signed to NRL clubs and will move across to Australia next season to attend school and participate in those development programs. This is the pathway that needs to be fostered and become regularly established, allowing junior talent to perform in their secondary schools competition and then be placed in the shop window for NRL clubs to further their development to NRL level.

The Hunters/Silktails model is ideal but Tonga (and Samoa realistically) are countries with populations that are far too small to support a side of that nature. The Tongan schoolboys pathway is the correct model for the characteristics of Tonga as a country, it is one that is utilised consistently in NZ RU and even that has indirectly benefited the NRL with a number of domestic Tongans reaching the NRL recently through that pathway (Konrad Hurrell, Solomone Kata, Eliesa Katoa, Viliami Vailea).

[StandOffHalf]

13 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

Who would say to Partner Williams in the halves for England. 

Personally I would say Lomax I think he still so talented but wouldn’t be surprised if says no to the call up because of that shoulder. But Dodd and Smith have looked really strong young 7s for Saints and Wigan respectively, Both with expert kicking games. Mikey Lewis has been tearing the SL to shreds and is one of my personal favourites. 

Also Rogue shouts like Sneyd who had a great World Cup, and Jordan Abdull is a very underrated player. Even Hastings could put his hand up who is very safe option. 

 

I imagine it'll be young Harry Smith to partner Williams, although Lomax is obviously the old head.

I hope Lewis is included, because he offers something different. Abdull will probably miss out, because of his fractured season. Dodd is a great young talent but hasn't had the best season, so he's probably going to be behind some of these.