International squads

[UTK]

Fiji will be in some real trouble based on that report. Kikau, Koroisau, and Wong would be massive outs.

Confirmation that NZ has lost all their 9s is disappointing, really not sure what they're going to do there. DWZ is one of the form wingers in the NRL but they have another 3-4 form wingers to replace him so that isn't the greatest loss, though Kiwis DWZ is always quality.

DWZ inclusion will come in handy if Tupou isn't able to tour, Frizell might take the last spot on the bench but to be honest he's not really needed for Tonga, likewise the supreme talent that is Siua Wong. Soni Luke out is a massive blow as they don't have the spine depth to cover him.

Utoikamanu is a handy pickup for Samoa, if Luai is ruled out they are in massive trouble against AUS/NZ.

[Dunbar]

1 hour ago, Mojo said:

Brisbane duo Selwyn Cobbo and Kotoni Staggs are in line for a Kangaroos debut as a host of spots go on the line in Sunday’s grand final clash.
Staggs has previously pledged his allegiance to Tonga but there is a push for the in-form centre to potentially put his hand up to be a Kangaroo.

Valentine Holmes is also eligible for selection despite being whacked with a one-game ban after he posted himself with a bag of white powder. It will be up to the Australian selectors if they want to carry Holmes despite his unavailability for the opener against Samoa.

The likes of Cobbo, Staggs, Dylan Edwards and Thomas Flegler are also in the mix.

“There is a whole heap of players up for selection who are playing on Sunday,” Meninga said. ”There is enough motivation trying to win a grand final. The cream comes from playing well.”

Meninga insisted Kalyn Ponga‘s Dally M medal win had not altered his standing because he was always in the mix.

“He has always been in the conversation,” Meninga said.

“The Dally M doesn‘t affect that. We know how good a player he is. Fitting them all in is going to be hard.

“It is the ongoing dilemma.”

Nat Butcher and Hudson Young are also in the mix.

World Cup winners Angus Crichton and Reagan Campbell-Gillard are expected to be overlooked.

Australia will only pick 20-players with about two spots remaining open.

Potential squad

James Tedesco, Josh Addo-Carr, Hamiso Tabuai-Fidow/Valentine Holmes/ Kotoni Staggs, Selwyn Cobbo/Murray Taulagi, Cameron Munster, Nathan Cleary, Tino Fa’asuamaleaui, Ben Hunt, Payne Haas, Liam Martin, Cameron Murray, Isaah Yeo, Harry Grant, Pat Carrigan, Lindsay Collins, Jake Trbojevic, Reuben Cotter, Daly Cherry-Evans, Tom Flegler/Nat Butcher/Hudson Young.

NEW ZEALAND

The Kiwis hooking stocks have taken a major blow with New Zealand scrambling to find a serviceable dummy half after Brandon Smith (hand) was ruled out.

Potential bolter Phoenix Crossland also likely to be unavailable after playing out Newcastle's finals loss to the Warriors with a knee injury. Jeremy Marshall-King, Kodi Nikorima and Te Maire Martin are all out.

The Kiwis will be forced to find a makeshift hooker with halves including Dylan Brown or Kieran Foran among the options or look to someone like Fa’amanu Brown.

Shaun Johnson also won’t play which could draw to a close his international career.

The likes of Leo Thompson, Matt Timoko and Will Warbrick are expected to be picked and are in line to make their first Test. Dally M winger of the year Jamayne Isaako is also likely to play his first Test for the Kiwis since 2019.

TONGA

Newcastle veteran Tyson Frizell is set to be a surprise inclusion in the Tongan squad for the end of season tour after putting his hand up to play. While Dallin Watene-Zelezniak has also informed Tonga and New Zealand that his preference will be to play for Tonga. Watene-Zelezniak is battling a shoulder injury and needs medical clearance before he is given the go-ahead to tour. He was in career best form for the Warriors this year and would have been picked for the Kiwis to add to his 13 Tests.

Frizell is also likely to be picked provided he too gets through a medical for the historic Tongan tour of England at the end of the year. Frizell has declared his interest in playing for Tonga. Remarkably, it will be the third country Frizell will represent at the international level.

He was part of Australia’s 2017 winning World Cup team and played 14 matches in the green and gold. Before that though he played five Tests for Wales. Rising Roosters star Siua Wong has opted to play for Tonga.

Tonga’s forward pack will be world class with Addin Fonua-Blake, Moeaki Fotuaika, Felise Kaufusi, Jason Taumalolo, Keaon Koloamatangi, Haumole Olakau‘atu, Eliesa Katoa and Junior Tatola all expected to tour. David Fifita has been ruled out as has Soni Luke.

The backline will include Will Penisni, Moses Suli and Talatau Koula. The halves will be Tui Lolohea and Isaiya Katoa. Talatau Amone is expected to be unavailable because of his October 18 court case.

SAMOA

Wests Tigers youngster Stefano Utoikamanu will make his international debut after declaring his allegiance for Samoa. Utoikamanu made his Origin debut this year. Broncos forward Keenan Palasia is also likely to play. Injuries will rule Jarome Luai and Josh Papalii out but Luai’s Penrith teammates Stephen Crichton, Brian To’o and Spencer Leniu are likely to play.

PNG

The Kumuls are hoping all their NRL players including Alex Johnston, Justin Olam, Dan Russell and Xavier Coates will play although Coates and Olam are under injury clouds. Olam could miss the first game but feature in game two of the tournament. Super League players Lachie Lam, Rhyse Martin and Edwin Ipape should play some part.

FIJI

It is some mixed news for the Bath. Boom Tigers youngster Jahream Bula will make his Test debut but his teammate Api Koroisau is in extreme doubt because of an ongoing calf complaint. Viliame Kikau has also withdrawn. Wingers Taane Milne and Mikaele Ravalawa should play.

COOK ISLANDS

Brisbane’s Brandon Piakura should headline the squad should he come through the grand final unscathed. Others including Davvy Moale, Tepai Moeroa, Zane Tetevano, Esan Marsters and Kayal Iro are expected to play. Former Kangaroo Karmichael Hunt will assist head coach Tony Iro.

That's a good in depth and well researched post.  You should write for one of the Australian news sites.

[Mojo]

17 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

That's a good in depth and well researched post.  You should write for one of the Australian news sites.

Lol that was a copy and paste from the daily telegraph that has a paywall block on it

[Mojo]

1 hour ago, UTK said:

Fiji will be in some real trouble based on that report. Kikau, Koroisau, and Wong would be massive outs.

Confirmation that NZ has lost all their 9s is disappointing, really not sure what they're going to do there. DWZ is one of the form wingers in the NRL but they have another 3-4 form wingers to replace him so that isn't the greatest loss, though Kiwis DWZ is always quality.

DWZ inclusion will come in handy if Tupou isn't able to tour, Frizell might take the last spot on the bench but to be honest he's not really needed for Tonga, likewise the supreme talent that is Siua Wong. Soni Luke out is a massive blow as they don't have the spine depth to cover him.

Utoikamanu is a handy pickup for Samoa, if Luai is ruled out they are in massive trouble against AUS/NZ.

Siua Wong going to Tonga is strange. Tonga have the most depth at second row out of aby nation. I thought he would've played for the samoan team.

Kiwis could also be without Hughes and Nas through injuries.

Luai is a big loss for the samoan team but it's also a blessing because they need to develop the younger players like Volkman, Asi and Schuster.

[UTK]

8 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Siua Wong going to Tonga is strange. Tonga have the most depth at second row out of aby nation. I thought he would've played for the samoan team.

Kiwis could also be without Hughes and Nas through injuries.

Luai is a big loss for the samoan team but it's also a blessing because they need to develop the younger players like Volkman, Asi and Schuster.

I hope the eligibility implications of such a switch have been explained to Wong, under International Eligibility rule (ix) you're only allowed to move between tier 2 Nations once every 4 years. In saying that, I would be entirely unsurprised if he is in the frame for NZ come 2024/2025. For clarity, the rule in question: 

• Pursuant to Rules (ii) and (viii) a Player may change from one Tier Two/Tier Three Nation to another for which he/she is eligible, with the approval of the IRL and subject to the condition that a Player may only make one such change in a four year period . The four year period shall commence from the date of any previous election.

Hughes would put NZ in a lot more trouble but I daresay he'll be ok as the calf problem ultimately didn't prevent him from playing in the prelim and he would've had a month to recover. They are notoriously prone to re-injury though so I wouldn't put the house on it.

A blessing is certainly the glass half-full way of looking at it, putting reserve-grade halves against AUS/NZ would certainly be a baptism of fire for those involved. Hopefully Luai pulls through but shoulders tend to be tricky as there's a fine line between requiring surgery and being able to get away with rest and rehab.

[sam4731]

Does anyone know if there are any remaining Super League teams that have players eligible for teams in the pacific championships. I'm assuming they won't be released for their nations but will they be able to join up with their nations post elimination?

[Mojo]

13 minutes ago, UTK said:

I hope the eligibility implications of such a switch have been explained to Wong, under International Eligibility rule (ix) you're only allowed to move between tier 2 Nations once every 4 years. In saying that, I would be entirely unsurprised if he is in the frame for NZ come 2024/2025. For clarity, the rule in question: 

• Pursuant to Rules (ii) and (viii) a Player may change from one Tier Two/Tier Three Nation to another for which he/she is eligible, with the approval of the IRL and subject to the condition that a Player may only make one such change in a four year period . The four year period shall commence from the date of any previous election.

Hughes would put NZ in a lot more trouble but I daresay he'll be ok as the calf problem ultimately didn't prevent him from playing in the prelim and he would've had a month to recover. They are notoriously prone to re-injury though so I wouldn't put the house on it.

A blessing is certainly the glass half-full way of looking at it, putting reserve-grade halves against AUS/NZ would certainly be a baptism of fire for those involved. Hopefully Luai pulls through but shoulders tend to be tricky as there's a fine line between requiring surgery and being able to get away with rest and rehab.

The Kiwis apparently approached Suia Wong but obviously he turned them down to play for Tonga instead

[UTK]

1 minute ago, Mojo said:

The Kiwis apparently approached Suia Wong but obviously he turned them down to play for Tonga instead

Yeah Kiwis approach was for their Kiwis 'A' side v Tonga 'A' I believe, I understand why he might preference a full international appearance over an 'A' team selection so I don't think that has much influence on his future plans.

Has already said Kiwis are a future goal, and the rules don't prevent him going there in the next couple of years. If he plays for Tonga this year he wouldn't be able to play for Fiji or Samoa until the end of 2027.

[Mojo]

3 minutes ago, UTK said:

Yeah Kiwis approach was for their Kiwis 'A' side v Tonga 'A' I believe, I understand why he might preference a full international appearance over an 'A' team selection so I don't think that has much influence on his future plans.

Has already said Kiwis are a future goal, and the rules don't prevent him going there in the next couple of years. If he plays for Tonga this year he wouldn't be able to play for Fiji or Samoa until the end of 2027.

Oh ok. From what I read the Kiwis A team is for players that will commit to the Kiwis team long term, and I always thought that would put off most of the Heritage players. They don't need to do a "A" team the Kiwis have depth, they just need to organise more international games. The Kiwis "A" team feels like a team that's trying to lock down the heritage players for the Kiwis team long term.

[Pulga]

39 minutes ago, UTK said:

I hope the eligibility implications of such a switch have been explained to Wong, under International Eligibility rule (ix) you're only allowed to move between tier 2 Nations once every 4 years. In saying that, I would be entirely unsurprised if he is in the frame for NZ come 2024/2025. For clarity, the rule in question: 

• Pursuant to Rules (ii) and (viii) a Player may change from one Tier Two/Tier Three Nation to another for which he/she is eligible, with the approval of the IRL and subject to the condition that a Player may only make one such change in a four year period . The four year period shall commence from the date of any previous election.

Hughes would put NZ in a lot more trouble but I daresay he'll be ok as the calf problem ultimately didn't prevent him from playing in the prelim and he would've had a month to recover. They are notoriously prone to re-injury though so I wouldn't put the house on it.

A blessing is certainly the glass half-full way of looking at it, putting reserve-grade halves against AUS/NZ would certainly be a baptism of fire for those involved. Hopefully Luai pulls through but shoulders tend to be tricky as there's a fine line between requiring surgery and being able to get away with rest and rehab.

I've always known it to be not within a calendar year. 

(Viii) A Player who has elected to represent a Nation cannot then elect to represent another Nation in the same calendar year.

Those two laws one after another is a bit of a head scratcher.

[UTK]

15 minutes ago, Mojo said:

Oh ok. From what I read the Kiwis A team is for players that will commit to the Kiwis team long term, and I always thought that would put off most of the Heritage players. They don't need to do a "A" team the Kiwis have depth, they just need to organise more international games. The Kiwis "A" team feels like a team that's trying to lock down the heritage players for the Kiwis team long term.

The 'A' matches don't technically commit a player to a nation under the rules (same goes for the PMXIII game, these have no impact on eligibility as they're not full internationals) but I can see NZ using it to find players that are actually committed to the Kiwis. Though they have depth they've been ravaged by defections in the last 5 years so it makes sense to ask players to make a commitment at 'A' level so that they can get a better idea of who will stay committed long-term. If a player turns down a Samoa/Tonga squad spot for a Kiwis 'A' jersey NZ can be pretty confident that player is going to be a long-term.

The Kiwis/Tonga 'A' game is one of the best developments for the international game in a while, finally building comprehensive international programs that put future prospects into NZ/Tonga systems and get them accustomed to the way those nations play. Australia/England/PNG have done it for a long time with the PMXIII games and the England Knights, Fiji have also done a similar thing sporadically in the past. Having a multi-tiered international system (inclusive of junior reps too) is the best way for any nation to build sustainable progress and results.

[UTK]

16 minutes ago, Pulga said:

I've always known it to be not within a calendar year. 

(Viii) A Player who has elected to represent a Nation cannot then elect to represent another Nation in the same calendar year.

Those two laws one after another is a bit of a head scratcher.

Since the re-structuring of the rules in 2020 there's been a distinction between: 

• Changing between a tier 1 and tier 2 team
• Changing between a tier 2 and a tier 2 team

Swapping between any nations in the same calendar year isn't permitted as per (Viii). Swapping between a tier 1 and tier 2 nation can occur between calendar years. Swapping between tier 2 and tier 2 (or 3) effectively operates on the old system as you can only swap between nations once every 4 years - technically the old system was in a WC cycle but it's pretty much the same thing.

Would I be surprised if those rules above have not been monitored or enforced in respect of tier 2 to tier 2 nation swapping - absolutely not, but then again we've had limited international activity since 2020 so maybe it just hasn't come up much yet. Marata Niukore technically contravened another provision in section (x) last year but was given an exemption prior to the tournament - sorta understandable given the WC delay so I don't really have an issue with it. 

• (x): Pursuant to Rule (viii), a Player is entitled to move between a Tier One and a Tier Two or Tier Three Nation freely save that a Player may not change their National Team during any IRL Global Event (including any qualification matches played as part of that IRL Global Event, including Continental Qualification Matches) in which that Player is participating and may only represent one Nation during each IRL Global Event

Edit: This Niukore exemption was required due to him turning out for the Cook Islands in their qualification matches for the 2021 WC, he then represented NZ in the 2022 edition.

Edited September 30, 2023 by UTK

[UTK]

Confirmed that Jarome Luai requires shoulder surgery so will miss the Pacific Championships, unlikely to be fit for round 1 next season either.

[StandOffHalf]

Wong going to Tonga is strange. I thought he was Fijian.

The one that I am perplexed by is DWZ turning down NZ after following in his great-grandfather's steps of captaining the Kiwis. Him going to Tonga is a big snub, but perhaps he simply wants to get out of OZ/NZ for a bit and do a bit of travelling with the touring Tongans?

Such a pity that so many sides look to be gutted by injuries. It is really going to detract from the appeal/allure of these two competitions and see them given less prominence in Ozzie media.

[welshmagpie]

On 29/09/2023 at 11:31, NRLandSL said:

Ngutlik Is out for the season unfortunately but he is a great player. PNG have some really good Young outside backs. Derby, Tai, Laybutt and 3 really young full backs in Morea Morea, Ragarive Wavik and Treigh Stewart.

Little claim to fame there (by international RL standards) - I helped Treigh Stewart realise his eligibility and get himself registered with PNG - @HeCanPlayFor (on X/Twitter & Instagram) 

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, welshmagpie said:

Little claim to fame there (by international RL standards) - I helped Treigh Stewart realise his eligibility and get himself registered with PNG - @HeCanPlayFor (on X/Twitter & Instagram) 

Good on ya mate, Great player hopefully he gets a debut at the dragons next season.

[UTK]

https://www.nrl.com/news/2023/10/03/kangaroos-name-five-debutants-in-pacific-championships-squad/

Kangaroos announced.

Likely first-choice side:

1. James Tedesco
2. Josh Addo-Carr *Pending integrity unit investigation*
3. Hamiso Tabuai-Fidow
4. Valentine Holmes *Suspended for first match*
5. Selwyn Cobbo
6. Cameron Munster
7. Nathan Cleary
8. Payne Haas
9. Ben Hunt
10. Patrick Carrigan
11. Reuben Cotter
12. Liam Martin
13. Isaah Yeo
14. Harry Grant
15. Cameron Murray
16. Tino Fa'asuamaleaui
17. Lindsay Collins

18. Daly Cherry-Evans
19. Kotoni Staggs
20. Jake Trbojevic 
21. Tom Flegler 
 

 

[UTK]

I understand the allure but if I were Samoa I would be tempted not to pick Taulagi and Nanai after they missed selection for Australia, given the injuries they're facing I would completely understand but you're better off long-term having players fully committed to Samoa.

Taulagi in particular is arguable as to whether he would make the Samoa side anyway, Nanai a bit of a different story.

[Pulga]

Can't believe J Turbo and Squiddy Tedesco made the squad. Both need to be in the bin.

[AB90]

1 hour ago, UTK said:

https://www.nrl.com/news/2023/10/03/kangaroos-name-five-debutants-in-pacific-championships-squad/

Kangaroos announced.

Likely first-choice side:

1. James Tedesco
2. Josh Addo-Carr *Pending integrity unit investigation*
3. Hamiso Tabuai-Fidow
4. Valentine Holmes *Suspended for first match*
5. Selwyn Cobbo
6. Cameron Munster
7. Nathan Cleary
8. Payne Haas
9. Ben Hunt
10. Patrick Carrigan
11. Reuben Cotter
12. Liam Martin
13. Isaah Yeo
14. Harry Grant
15. Cameron Murray
16. Tino Fa'asuamaleaui
17. Lindsay Collins

18. Daly Cherry-Evans
19. Kotoni Staggs
20. Jake Trbojevic 
21. Tom Flegler 
 

 

Pretty strong team that. Potentially even better than the team that won the WC last year.

[NRLandSL]

1 hour ago, UTK said:

I understand the allure but if I were Samoa I would be tempted not to pick Taulagi and Nanai after they missed selection for Australia, given the injuries they're facing I would completely understand but you're better off long-term having players fully committed to Samoa.

Taulagi in particular is arguable as to whether he would make the Samoa side anyway, Nanai a bit of a different story.

I don’t there such thing being “fully committed” to any nation in rugby league. It seems players do what they feel like every year. (As they should though as they rules allow them to) 

Edited October 3, 2023 by NRLandSL

[StandOffHalf]

Shame to see Kotoni opt for the Green and Golds over the Tongan Horse.

He's been super for Brisbane of late. I was looking forward to seeing him in red, but maybe he didn't fancy the chilly weather.

Big miss for Tonga IMO.

Edited October 3, 2023 by StandOffHalf

[NRLandSL]

Nathan Cleary in doubt for the kangaroos after suffering an MCL sprain after a hip drop tackle in the grand final.

Shame a lot of quality half backs are out for the internationals.

Edited October 3, 2023 by NRLandSL

[Anita Bath]

On 30/09/2023 at 15:49, NRLandSL said:

Very ignorant to call him “Garbage”, He has been on the of the best players in the world 5-6 years now and continues to dominate on every stage. Either your a south’s fan or just not very educated about rugby league.

Aren’t those two categories the same?

[UTK]

2 hours ago, NRLandSL said:

I don’t there such thing being “fully committed” to any nation in rugby league. It seems players do what they feel like every year. (As they should though as they rules allow them to) 

I would define "fully committed" as a player having the option to play for 2 nations between tier 2 and tier 1 and sticking firm with their choice in perpetuity. 

Plenty of players in that situation for each nation: 

Samoa have recently had the likes of To'o, Crichton, Luai, Papali'i, and Paulo in that category.

Tonga - Taumalolo, Fifita, Ma'u, Taukeiaho, Tupou, Olakau'atu and Fonua-Blake. 

Australia and NZ have even more dual-eligible players that have confirmed their preference will always remain with their birth nations while both options are available.

I see nothing wrong with Tonga/Samoa taking players that have missed selection for AUS/NZ but I do feel it might not benefit them in terms of sustainability moving forward.