Toulouse or London

[Tommygilf]

4 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

What I’m getting at though is any income is huge as this moment in time with the size of debts clubs have, so to dismiss away following as minimal at this time in our sport is ludicrous imo. If we were a booming sport I agree it would be minimal but we’re not. 

What size of debts? Most debts if any are owed to owners, who won't call them in for obvious reasons?

At Super League fully pro level its not a major consideration. IIRC, I'm fairly sure I've checked that every English Super League club in 2022 did not get their lowest home attendance against either Catalans OR Toulouse, for example.

In the part time, relatively low sums game below that level it is important yes, but that shouldn't be a driving commercial point for the sport.

[Rovers13]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

What size of debts? Most debts if any are owed to owners, who won't call them in for obvious reasons?

At Super League fully pro level its not a major consideration. IIRC, I'm fairly sure I've checked that every English Super League club in 2022 did not get their lowest home attendance against either Catalans OR Toulouse, for example.

In the part time, relatively low sums game below that level it is important yes, but that shouldn't be a driving commercial point for the sport.

Again there lies the problem, we’re relying on owners not walking away can any club be self sustainable. 

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

I’ve seen no money pumped into the heartlands wisely not even in SL. So don’t get your point tbh. It all goes on over the hill NRL players or a walmsley new contract not where it should go. 

So now the spending has been in the heartlands but it hasn't been wise? That is at least a step forward then.

[Rovers13]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

So now the spending has been in the heartlands but it hasn't been wise? That is at least a step forward then.

It hasn’t been wisely spent no mate. You can’t just give hand outs with no plan. It’s like giving me £20 I’d be off to pub lol 

[Damien]

50 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

I get that but we’re not football we can’t afford to lose say 3k fans and not replace them. As daft as it sounds if 3k unsubscribe from sky sports that’s less money we will be offered in a tv deal. We can’t run as a business we’re not in a position of power to pick and choose at this moment in time. 

This line of thinking is overegged. To lose 3k subscribers would take an awful lot of fans to walk away from the game and completely give up on Rugby League and not be interested in Sky for anything else. You are probably talking about tens of thousands of people just to get that 3k figure

Edited October 10, 2023 by Damien

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Rovers13 said:

Again there lies the problem, we’re relying on owners not walking away can any club be self sustainable. 

Some clubs rely on that, not all by any means.

[Click]

19 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

You’re not getting my point though we’ve been here before loads of times by pulling away from heartlands and barring Catalan who imo was a massive gamble that paid off big time. Rest have fallen by the way side and no I’m not saying stop expansion I’m saying be an all inclusive sport give every team the same opportunities to invest grow expand you never know we might one day have a massive club in Oldham.    

When has RL ever pulled away from the heartlands?

[Rovers13]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

This line of thinking is overegged. To lose 3k subscribers would take an awful lot of fans to walk away from the game and completely give up on Rugby League and not be interested in Sky for anything else. You are probably talking about tens of thousands of people just to get that 3k figure

Sorry it was a figure of speech not an actual real figure I’d guess at causing problems lol 

[Rovers13]

1 minute ago, Click said:

When has RL ever pulled away from the heartlands?

The list is endless PSG Toronto london Toulouse west wales etc  And no I’m not against expansion I want a game for all not a select few. We’re an insular looking sport and people wonder why we never go anywhere. 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, Rovers13 said:

It hasn’t been wisely spent no mate. You can’t just give hand outs with no plan. It’s like giving me £20 I’d be off to pub lol 

I think there could have been a greater plan in place, however I don't think that would have the effect you would potentially envisage.

As I said, with limited funds it would have been pumped into areas of largest success and greatest growth potential. To me, that would have been a new Stadium and resourcing in Bradford and Wakefield (either Wakefield or Cas), a drive for support of the game in Eastern Greater Manchester, and London. 

I also wouldn't risk that targeted investment on the result of a single season. That would make it a waste of money.

[Rovers13]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I think there could have been a greater plan in place, however I don't think that would have the effect you would potentially envisage.

As I said, with limited funds it would have been pumped into areas of largest success and greatest growth potential. To me, that would have been a new Stadium and resourcing in Bradford and Wakefield (either Wakefield or Cas), a drive for support of the game in Eastern Greater Manchester, and London. 

I also wouldn't risk that targeted investment on the result of a single season. That would make it a waste of money.

I agree we haven’t the funds to what I’d like to do, but also we’ve wasted hell of a lot of funds we do have. So is our own fault where we are now. 

[Click]

3 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

The list is endless PSG Toronto london Toulouse west wales etc  And no I’m not against expansion I want a game for all not a select few. We’re an insular looking sport and people wonder why we never go anywhere. 

But how are any of those clubs pulling from the heartlands? 

They had private owners pouring thousands or millions in

[Rovers13]

2 minutes ago, Click said:

But how are any of those clubs pulling from the heartlands? 

They had private owners pouring thousands or millions in

Because cherry picking maybe could have stopped a booming Oldham club or barrow club is my point, yes all guess work but so is expansion. 

[Damien]

Just now, Rovers13 said:

Sorry it was a figure of speech not an actual real figure I’d guess at causing problems lol 

Of course but it is a line of thinking that is frequently brought up by some on here, e.g Sky will sell a lot more subscriptions if x heartland team was in SL instead of Toulouse. Once you take away the people in that town that already have Sky for Rugby League or other sports I am not particularly convinced that any additional subscriptions, or certainly to any meaningful degree, would be sold.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Rovers13 said:

Because cherry picking maybe could have stopped a booming Oldham club or barrow club is my point, yes all guess work but so is expansion. 

Are they "booming"? Really?

They're doing well, relative to their own level, but they aren't the messiah for the sport either.

[Rovers13]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Are they "booming"? Really?

They're doing well, relative to their own level, but they aren't the messiah for the sport either.

Of course not but my point is putting an Oldham in instead of a PSG things might be different now. Like I say guess work but my point is all should be treated equally. 

[Rovers13]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

Of course but it is a line of thinking that is frequently brought up by some on here, e.g Sky will sell a lot more subscriptions if x heartland team was in SL instead of Toulouse. Once you take away the people in that town that already have Sky for Rugby League or other sports I am not particularly convinced that any additional subscriptions, or certainly to any meaningful degree, would be sold.

I’ve never been an us or them. Everyone should be equal imo. As for growing the game heartlands or expansion not for me. Internationals is how to grow the sport not favouritism. 

[Click]

3 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

Because cherry picking maybe could have stopped a booming Oldham club or barrow club is my point, yes all guess work but so is expansion. 

I have no idea about cherry picking when it comes to PSG - I was too young when SL started, but if any of those clubs were truly booming then they would have continued to boom after SL, and then get into SL, but they haven't for whichever reason.

All you are doing is trying to blame expansion clubs for clubs in the heartlands doing poorly, and all evidence of those other clubs in the heartlands for the last 20 odd years, doesn't exactly scream "sleeping giants"

[Click]

2 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

I’ve never been an us or them. Everyone should be equal imo. As for growing the game heartlands or expansion not for me. Internationals is how to grow the sport not favouritism. 

So your answer to getting a truly international sport is to... not be a national sport first?

Edited October 10, 2023 by Click

[Rovers13]

1 minute ago, Click said:

I have no idea about cherry picking when it comes to PSG - I was too young when SL started, but if any of those clubs were truly booming then they would have continued to boom after SL, and then get into SL, but they haven't for whichever reason.

All you are doing is trying to blame expansion clubs for clubs in the heartlands doing poorly, and all evidence of those other clubs in the heartlands for the last 20 odd years, doesn't exactly scream "sleeping giants"

Read my earlier posts I’m blaming nothing only the way the sport as been governed mate. Funds going to things they shouldn’t have etc. 

[Damien]

12 minutes ago, Rovers13 said:

Because cherry picking maybe could have stopped a booming Oldham club or barrow club is my point, yes all guess work but so is expansion. 

There hasn't been a booming Oldham or Barrow in my lifetime. Oldham selling the Watersheddings and completely falling from grace and being a shell of a club wasn't anything to do with ploughing resources elsewhere. Neither is Barrow having peaks and troughs. The vast majority of issues at heartland clubs have been self inflicted through poor management and worse. Teams joining in from non heartland areas didnt cause them.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Damien

[Rovers13]

1 minute ago, Click said:

So your answer to getting a truly internation sport is to... not be a national sport first?

We’ve tried being a big national sport for over 100 years mate and failed. Times have moved on we can’t compete with most sports time for a change up away from clubs. 

[Click]

1 minute ago, Rovers13 said:

Read my earlier posts I’m blaming nothing only the way the sport as been governed mate. Funds going to things they shouldn’t have etc. 

But your only example of funds going somewhere they shouldn't have is PSG - Which I guess you can't be wrong as they aren't around anymore.

Where have other funds gone that they shouldn't have gone?

[Rovers13]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

There hasn't been a booming Oldham or Barrow in my lifetime. Oldham selling the Watersheddings and completely falling from grace wasn't anything to do with ploughing resources elsewhere. Neither is Barrow having peaks and troughs. The vast majority of issues at heartland clubs have been self inflicted through poor management and worse. Teams joining in from non heartland areas didnt cause them.

They were just examples not things that could happen. But it’s same with expansion it’s all guess work too. 

[Click]

Just now, Rovers13 said:

We’ve tried being a big national sport for over 100 years mate and failed. Times have moved on we can’t compete with most sports time for a change up away from clubs. 

When have we ever tried to be a big national sport ? 

We are talking about Rugby League right?