European Under 19s Championship 2024 (Merged Threads)

[langpark]

2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

So if I just step down from my soap box for a moment, the (first) question becomes, ''how do we identify these people (self starter, rugby league nuts) and make contact with them''? That's the real challenge for the marketing guru's out there. The next question is ''what can we do, to encourage you to get going''?

Great post and very well articulated.

Only on this last point I "disagree". 

The people you describe are already here! I could actually point you to one of these people in several countries in Europe alone.

The problem is, this needs to be coupled with some resource. Otherwise the inevitable eventually happens, these passionate people eventually run out of steam. As you say, not only they do all the heavy lifting, they are often the targets of all the criticism and in many cases are using their own money to plug the financial holes along the way. It is the worst of both worlds in many ways. 

So until any resource is given to compliment the great work they are doing, then it is very difficult to establish any strong, long-lasting foundations in any of these places.

Think of how many nations appeared and started off with a bang, only to eventually fade away (Turkey, Spain probably the two best examples).

This is why a profitable WC and IRL are essential. Financial backing for these minnow nations is the difference between merely existing or thriving. 

[yanto]

22 hours ago, langpark said:

Great post and very well articulated.

Only on this last point I "disagree". 

The people you describe are already here! I could actually point you to one of these people in several countries in Europe alone.

The problem is, this needs to be coupled with some resource. Otherwise the inevitable eventually happens, these passionate people eventually run out of steam. As you say, not only they do all the heavy lifting, they are often the targets of all the criticism and in many cases are using their own money to plug the financial holes along the way. It is the worst of both worlds in many ways. 

So until any resource is given to compliment the great work they are doing, then it is very difficult to establish any strong, long-lasting foundations in any of these places.

Think of how many nations appeared and started off with a bang, only to eventually fade away (Turkey, Spain probably the two best examples).

This is why a profitable WC and IRL are essential. Financial backing for these minnow nations is the difference between merely existing or thriving. 

 

You know how it goes. 

When I started RL in the Netherlands it was a strange time.

Before anything had even really started me and the wife got an invite to attend the inaugural RLEF meeting in Paris saw Holland become members.

Me as the only official and the wife as secretary

So we started top down ...raided a few union clubs and put two sides out against a touring Scotland A and Scotland Students teams in front of Sky Sports !!!!!

Kevin Rudd who was team manager of the Scots then became development officer for the RLEF and was a great help.

At the time outside of the UK and France ,Russia and Serbia were the only active members.

Out of nowhere we were hosting Georgia and a year later new boys Czech Republic. 

Still without a domestic comp (even though we did play incoming touring clubs and had two great Rotterdam Nines events ) we were invited to play in the first European championship  which doubled up as a WC qualifying tournament with a superb trip to Tblisi and home games very Russia and Serbia.

As you mentioned financial backing well everything was (and as far as I'm aware still is) self funding.

Luckily I had a hard core of 20 lads keen to tour Europe playing rugby.

Best pub team on the continent Kevin Rudd once described us.

Any way that WC qualifying tournament burnt me out...again a point you make..and a public spat on boards like this with Kevin regarding funding ..which again you mention ...saw me walk away. 

The time the energy and the personal costs and commitment took its toll.

That could have been the end, like you see in a few countries starting out when the enthusiastic  one man band walks away,but luckily a Dutch Kiwi who came over to play in those early days resurrected the game after a two year gap.

Jason did a fantastic job and as more teams popped up in Europe the opportunities to travel and play the game expanded. 

Domestic comp,official board and the Dutch are where they are today. 

It's taken 22 years from start to present day ,Long established Rotterdam Pitbulls pulled the plug this season due to lack of players.So nothing is really safe and the whole structure vulnerable. 

Back to the point...there must be 40 plus guys and a few girls who have RLEF qualifications that are no longer involved.

Still everything is self funded with I believe no more RLEF support...was less than 3000 a year.

The game is only surviving due to thick skinned die in the wool league guys keeping it together.

This can be said in virtually every developing nation on the continent.

So yes if the RLEF want to establish the game then they need to re assess their commitment because 22 years down the road since I took the plunge nothing has really changed.

 

Bit of a ramble that when I look back but guys doing the yards will know what I'm on about. 

 

 

Edited July 25 by yanto

[fighting irish]

22 hours ago, langpark said:

Great post and very well articulated.

Only on this last point I "disagree". 

The people you describe are already here! I could actually point you to one of these people in several countries in Europe alone.

The problem is, this needs to be coupled with some resource. Otherwise the inevitable eventually happens, these passionate people eventually run out of steam. As you say, not only they do all the heavy lifting, they are often the targets of all the criticism and in many cases are using their own money to plug the financial holes along the way. It is the worst of both worlds in many ways. 

So until any resource is given to compliment the great work they are doing, then it is very difficult to establish any strong, long-lasting foundations in any of these places.

Think of how many nations appeared and started off with a bang, only to eventually fade away (Turkey, Spain probably the two best examples).

This is why a profitable WC and IRL are essential. Financial backing for these minnow nations is the difference between merely existing or thriving. 

Thanks mate, but I don't think we are disagreeing at all.

My final comments were intended to represent the start of the process.

Just how much ''encouragement'' the game can give them is certainly a function of how much money yes, but also the kind of advice they can give (which costs virtually nothing) to help them structure their efforts going forward.

How to ensure they can raise their own funds, budget for their annual expenditure, ensure they are properly insured, how they can achieve recognition in their own nation and access any grant aid which may be available. etc. etc. etc.

As far as I can see, that advice, hand-holding, nurturing doesn't exist.

Naturally, without this kind of knowledge, the would-be entrepreneur is more likely to fail and drop out, as witnessed by everyone (such as yourself) who's been involved in this game for some time.

So we should be both identifying new ''RL nuts'' and also doing more to ensure that once they engage, they don't run out of steam. Surely this is the ''business'' of the ERL? and I assert that if not, it ought to be. It's not about sending money into the ether.

Let me just say in closing my original post was about England and Wales, although I didn't say so explicitly. I want to say also that, in my opinion, the kind of advice, hand-holding and nurturing I'm calling for, should be undertaken by BARLA, WRL, and/or the bigger local league management committee's and not left to the hopelessly under resourced RFL.

Come on BARLA et al, stop reneging on your part in this.  

[Gomersall]

2 hours ago, fighting irish said:

Thanks mate, but I don't think we are disagreeing at all.

My final comments were intended to represent the start of the process.

Just how much ''encouragement'' the game can give them is certainly a function of how much money yes, but also the kind of advice they can give (which costs virtually nothing) to help them structure their efforts going forward.

How to ensure they can raise their own funds, budget for their annual expenditure, ensure they are properly insured, how they can achieve recognition in their own nation and access any grant aid which may be available. etc. etc. etc.

As far as I can see, that advice, hand-holding, nurturing doesn't exist.

Naturally, without this kind of knowledge, the would-be entrepreneur is more likely to fail and drop out, as witnessed by everyone (such as yourself) who's been involved in this game for some time.

So we should be both identifying new ''RL nuts'' and also doing more to ensure that once they engage, they don't run out of steam. Surely this is the ''business'' of the ERL? and I assert that if not, it ought to be. It's not about sending money into the ether.

Let me just say in closing my original post was about England and Wales, although I didn't say so explicitly. I want to say also that, in my opinion, the kind of advice, hand-holding and nurturing I'm calling for, should be undertaken by BARLA, WRL, and/or the bigger local league management committee's and not left to the hopelessly under resourced RFL.

Come on BARLA et al, stop reneging on your part in this.  

Isn’t BARLA now under the control of the RFL? 

[fighting irish]

1 hour ago, Gomersall said:

Isn’t BARLA now under the control of the RFL? 

I don't know, but I don't think so.

It's my opinion that after the Sports Council ''declared'' the RFL as the governing body, BARLA spat the dummy out and downed tools, with a ''see how you get on without us'' parting shot.

No-one here has challenged my opinion (yet) but they (BARLA) don't seem to be doing anything now, to promote the game.

I contend that just maintaining the existing league structure (amateur) is nothing more than a managed decline.

Any self respecting governing body/committee (at any level) just has to make some time and expend some energy for forward movement, for growth, otherwise they are negligent, guilty of dereliction of duty.

So that's the context for my remark, in the last post. 

[langpark]

9 hours ago, fighting irish said:

So we should be both identifying new ''RL nuts'' and also doing more to ensure that once they engage, they don't run out of steam. Surely this is the ''business'' of the ERL? and I assert that if not, it ought to be. It's not about sending money into the ether.

Yes, what I was saying is that there are already quite a few of these "RL nuts" out there who have already gotten the ball rolling in various places.  So we'd be best off trying to bolster their efforts in any way possible, rather than putting trying to get more people to 'start things from zero'.  Ideally you want both, but when it comes to the scarce resources we have, if we have to focus on one, then I'd be focusing on the former.

As for BARLA (which I believe these days are usually touring as various regional Lionhearts teams), I have to say they do seem to still be doing tours of Europe fairly regularly.  More of it would definitely be a good thing.  In any case, please let's not turn this into another "it's the RFL's fault!" thread please! 

[gingerjon]

17 hours ago, Gomersall said:

Isn’t BARLA now under the control of the RFL? 

Yes. In their words, they 'realigned' in 2004.

Sport England require (demand) only one national governing body per sport (RL was not the only sport to have this problem).

How much actual control the RFL have or want of the teams, leagues and cups that still fall under BARLA, I have no idea. Others may be clearer.

[fighting irish]

11 hours ago, langpark said:

Yes, what I was saying is that there are already quite a few of these "RL nuts" out there who have already gotten the ball rolling in various places.  So we'd be best off trying to bolster their efforts in any way possible, rather than putting trying to get more people to 'start things from zero'.  Ideally you want both, but when it comes to the scarce resources we have, if we have to focus on one, then I'd be focusing on the former.

As for BARLA (which I believe these days are usually touring as various regional Lionhearts teams), I have to say they do seem to still be doing tours of Europe fairly regularly.  More of it would definitely be a good thing.  In any case, please let's not turn this into another "it's the RFL's fault!" thread please! 

I'm certainly not saying its the RFL's fault, quite the contrary.

I'm trying to mobilise those in amateur administrative roles right across the country and calling on them to do more. I'm not an advocate, by the way, of only doing half a job. I'm certain we need to do more to find people willing to start from zero and nurture the ones, already up and running.

I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I'm grateful for your input, and I think we're on the same page, with just minor differences in our approach.

(I almost slipped a ''nuanced differences'' in there, but resisted the urge). Cheers.

[langpark]

3 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I'm certainly not saying its the RFL's fault, quite the contrary.

It wasn't really even directed at you. Just a ore-emptive strike, as I know the mere mention of RFL around here is a slippery slope and can derail any kind of topic.