Straight Talking: How to improve England women’s team in wake of record loss

[Total Rugby League]

RICHARD de la RIVIERE has long been a devotee of Women’s Rugby League and in this article he reacts to England’s shattering 90-4 defeat to...

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[HolmeKnight]

I read this article in League Express and agree with much of it.  Despite the obvious disparity between the Australia and England teams it may be significant that the statement put out by Georgie Dagger and two York colleagues began with the words "We were not ready".  Is this an implicit criticism of the England coaching set-up?

I can't agree with Richard about the current WSL format.  Yes, the eight-team league is virtually two leagues in one but how on earth would a four-team league work?  Would they play each other four times in a twelve match season?  York's first three matches this season are Wigan, Leeds and St Helens.  That couldn't surely continue for a whole season; some respite is needed.  And how would the "second tier" clubs improve if they didn't play the top four? It's a bit like saying the Scottish Premier Football League should not take place because Celtic and Rangers will finish first and second.

Last year I attended Barrow vs York at Craven Park.  Somewhat predictably, York led 0-28 at half-time.  But Barrow came out revitalised and "won" the second half 8-0.  They were delighted with that and regarded it as a moral victory.  I am sure they were also delighted with their fifth place finish.

Likewise. Leigh Leopards are coming up to Super League with real momentum and surely have their sights on fifth place and maybe to shock some of the top four. 

With the progress the women's game has made in the last few years it is possible to regard the current situation as transitional.  The impetus needs to come from below with ambitious clubs bringing through their own youngsters and challenging the top clubs. 

 

[RigbyLuger]

Are Warrington showing any signs of caring? They had their women's team play at exactly the same time as the men. Seems that they're an afterthought at best.

[BroncoFan]

9 hours ago, RigbyLuger said:

Are Warrington showing any signs of caring? They had their women's team play at exactly the same time as the men. Seems that they're an afterthought at best.

They recently lost their best young prospect to Salford, it’s a pretty sad that.

[The Blues Ox]

I think there will be a re-shuffle at the top table pretty soon, its clear that some clubs are fully behind womens rugby and other clubs are just doing it because its seen as the right thing to do. Warrington are an example of that and it was not really a surprise when rumors started of them not making the start of the season especially when you have teams like Swinton that are fully behind the game and are willing to pay players.

I think Warrington and Huddersfield could be in real danger this season and if the Championship is really strong who is to say that at the end of the year a couple of teams are replaced. Its important that Fev make it back up this year to be allowed to keep running their under 19's program but with London and Cardiff(depending on the how committed the Union players are) that could be a tough ask and the people running the sport would love one, or both, of the latter teams in the top competition.

[RBKnight]

1 hour ago, The Blues Ox said:

I think there will be a re-shuffle at the top table pretty soon, its clear that some clubs are fully behind womens rugby and other clubs are just doing it because its seen as the right thing to do. Warrington are an example of that and it was not really a surprise when rumors started of them not making the start of the season especially when you have teams like Swinton that are fully behind the game and are willing to pay players.

I think Warrington and Huddersfield could be in real danger this season and if the Championship is really strong who is to say that at the end of the year a couple of teams are replaced. Its important that Fev make it back up this year to be allowed to keep running their under 19's program but with London and Cardiff(depending on the how committed the Union players are) that could be a tough ask and the people running the sport would love one, or both, of the latter teams in the top competition.

I think you're right about the likes of Warrington and Hudds. One thing we might not agree on is how to ensure top-class coaching and training is accessible to enterprising championship and community clubs. I would advocate for a similar dual-reg model between these teams and the top four WSL teams (preferably not with clubs in their immediate vicinity, to help the geographical reach) similar to the York-Sheffield model.

You'll be disappointed to learn that the relationship between York and Sheffield will be possibly even deeper this year.  Ex-Valkyrie Georgia Taylor has been made 1st team skipper at the Eagles, whilst also taking up a role with the York coaching staff. The Eagles have also made Agnes Wood the overall club skipper, even though she already has a squad number at York for this season. Lisa Parker, Chev Clark and T'leesha Frederick-Maynard will all be playing on dual-reg for the Eagles this season, and Lucie Eastwood has joined the Eagles permanently from York.

[Richard de la Riviere]

20 hours ago, HolmeKnight said:

I read this article in League Express and agree with much of it.  Despite the obvious disparity between the Australia and England teams it may be significant that the statement put out by Georgie Dagger and two York colleagues began with the words "We were not ready".  Is this an implicit criticism of the England coaching set-up?

I can't agree with Richard about the current WSL format.  Yes, the eight-team league is virtually two leagues in one but how on earth would a four-team league work?  Would they play each other four times in a twelve match season?  York's first three matches this season are Wigan, Leeds and St Helens.  That couldn't surely continue for a whole season; some respite is needed.  And how would the "second tier" clubs improve if they didn't play the top four? It's a bit like saying the Scottish Premier Football League should not take place because Celtic and Rangers will finish first and second.

Last year I attended Barrow vs York at Craven Park.  Somewhat predictably, York led 0-28 at half-time.  But Barrow came out revitalised and "won" the second half 8-0.  They were delighted with that and regarded it as a moral victory.  I am sure they were also delighted with their fifth place finish.

Likewise. Leigh Leopards are coming up to Super League with real momentum and surely have their sights on fifth place and maybe to shock some of the top four. 

With the progress the women's game has made in the last few years it is possible to regard the current situation as transitional.  The impetus needs to come from below with ambitious clubs bringing through their own youngsters and challenging the top clubs. 

 

I hoped I’d been vague enough in my wording not to come out in favour of four teams! I’d be very sorry to see Huddersfield and Barrow punted out. Warrington aren’t doing anything and Featherstone didn’t win a game last year despite a few good showings. Happy to give Leigh a season before judging. 
 

I could live with five. Six is only workable if there’s a genuine effort to be competitive. Moving to eight was an error. 
 

The NRLW did begin with four but I wouldn’t be comfortable with it. 
 

Perhaps the rfl could stress that places for 2026 will be based on a genuine commitment to close the gap on fourth. Huddersfield have occasionally looked competitive but there never seems a desire from the club to go that stage further. Maybe they could have gone in for some of the players York signed like Demi Fisher who’s moved to Huddersfield and Tara Moxon who went there on loan last season. I’m guessing they’ll be fringe players at York, but both would be certain starters at the Giants. 
 

As for the Championship, Swinton are one to watch. And geographically, they’re in a handy place to sign players from Lancashire & Yorkshire clubs if they get into the WSL. 

Edited March 14 by Richard de la Riviere

[The Blues Ox]

8 hours ago, RBKnight said:

I think you're right about the likes of Warrington and Hudds. One thing we might not agree on is how to ensure top-class coaching and training is accessible to enterprising championship and community clubs. I would advocate for a similar dual-reg model between these teams and the top four WSL teams (preferably not with clubs in their immediate vicinity, to help the geographical reach) similar to the York-Sheffield model.

You'll be disappointed to learn that the relationship between York and Sheffield will be possibly even deeper this year.  Ex-Valkyrie Georgia Taylor has been made 1st team skipper at the Eagles, whilst also taking up a role with the York coaching staff. The Eagles have also made Agnes Wood the overall club skipper, even though she already has a squad number at York for this season. Lisa Parker, Chev Clark and T'leesha Frederick-Maynard will all be playing on dual-reg for the Eagles this season, and Lucie Eastwood has joined the Eagles permanently from York.

The whole DR system is a little bit strange full stop in the womans game, I know Fryston have run in to problems this year in thinking that a lot of their juniors that are now at Fev would simply be allowed to DR back to them but DR is not allowed between Championship teams and league 1 teams. I am surprised that more teams have not tried to use it in a similar fashion to York and Sheffield. That said I am not totally against it although it will distort the league table to some extent if it is used in excess.

One thing that would be annoying and using Hull as an example when they have brought a player like Evie Sexton through the ranks and to then see her running out for Sheffield on DR when they are in the same division as Hull. I don't know if that will be the case but it would not surprise me. 

I have similar thoughts in regards to Championship and community clubs recieving coaching help and this should be a must, in the case of Community teams it makes sense to help those coaches as much as possible to improve the game overall year on year.

[sam4731]

Like it or not, the only way to improve the women's game to the level of the NRLW is money, and lots of it.

These players need to be like for like on facilities, coaches, training regimes and most importantly salaries.

You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

[The Blues Ox]

Its mentioned on the Warrington thread as well about participation numbers and we are so far behind the aussies in that respect at junior level that it just makes it virtually impossible to compete with them.

[johnmatrix]

The playing numbers at jnr level need to go up and they have done so, probably not enough at the moment but any increase will do. 

Once these girls filter thru in a few years the standard will increase naturally.  Some of the players currently playing now in womens super league have had it very easy in terms of competing for a shirt as the playing pool has been so small. 

[The Blues Ox]

16 hours ago, johnmatrix said:

The playing numbers at jnr level need to go up and they have done so, probably not enough at the moment but any increase will do. 

Once these girls filter thru in a few years the standard will increase naturally.  Some of the players currently playing now in womens super league have had it very easy in terms of competing for a shirt as the playing pool has been so small. 

And still do have it easy. The money banded about for Hoyle and Hardcastle, 2 players well past their best, could have been much better spent on some junior talent coming through the ranks.

[WRLFan]

1 hour ago, The Blues Ox said:

And still do have it easy. The money banded about for Hoyle and Hardcastle, 2 players well past their best, could have been much better spent on some junior talent coming through the ranks.

I believe Hardcastle & Hoyle leaving Leeds is a good thing.
Don’t think either of them improved Leeds while they were there

Looking forward to see who will play centres in the early games with Beevers out till mid season