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There's a lot of good stuff discussed on this thread, and a lot of guff too. Wading through it all would take too long, but here's some thoughts... 1. If L1 is no good for player development, why does:- a. dual reg exist? b. not every SL/Champ club run academies/reserve teams? 2. Surely the RFL can get "a" tv deal to show L1 games regularly, as it appears sky don't have tv rights to the division? Even if it's low £ value, any extra coverage is good, yes?? 3. Whilst it's ok for full-time pro clubs to play on thur/fri/sat/sun, it's not very viable for part-time players to do this on top of full-time jobs, sat/sun are really the only viable days. 4. the community work done by hemel, skolars, etc. is outside the heartlands, and shouldn't be dismissed lightly for the future of the sport. there's probably a lot more to add, but if a measly 2.5% of tv money split between almost 37% of the pro teams in the country is such an issue to SL, which division is actually the best value-for-money to the sport as a whole??

I think Bristol are lined up for next season, I do not see the benefit in a Manchester team when you have Salford, Oldham, Rochdale, Swindon and Leigh on their doorstep?? When I win the Euromillions tomorrow, I am taking my chequebook to Bootham Crescent and unleashing York's potential

I do hope he's charging a full whack for this. I'd hate to think that he hasn't been properly rewarded for his contribution to Rugby League.

I don't agree with everything kiyan posts (or anybody else here to be fair) but I think he is getting a bit of a raw deal on this thread. I'd rather have a discussion with kiyan than one or two others on this thread.

Report: Knights’ display makes a mockery of SL hopes for deregulation.

Exactly. SL is increasingly the problem. It started out well but as time passes is looking more vulnerable. It’s ability to generate revenue is less convincing as each year passes. The solution? Pull up the draw bridge and retreat into it’s castle. SL clubs think they are the most important and indispensable part of UK SL. In reality SL needs the rest of UK RL more than it needs SL. If SL fell over, it would knock the game, but the clubs would pick themselves up and still deliver for their communities. If the rest of UK RL disappeared, how long would SL survive? SL gets more out of RL in the UK than SL returns to it. Virtually all the development of new players comes from the systems in place below SL. A small amount of money flows the other way and SL seem to think it’s wasted. How short sighted. I actually enjoy following the Championship and League 1 just as much as SL and if I lived in the UK, would probably go to watch Championship rather than SL. If the media could be convinced that what's on offer below SL is good to watch, then there’s potential to be exploited.

Everyone isn't here to serve super league!.. Everything you've just wrote is exactly why the championship & league one clubs need to be released from the stranglehold that is super league! We are not allowed to generate our own media income!

I’m really struggling with your opinion Scotchy. L1 is an important part of UK RL. It isn’t perfect but what is in RL? Teams from North America & Europe are seeing it as an important opportunity to improve themselves. UK sides appreciate the opportunity it affords them as well. The fact that SL get so much money and most can’t even be bothered developing talent could be described as a waste, a waste of opportunity. I'd rather see a million put into L1 than given to SL clubs, who will simply spend it on imports from Australia.

So I did it!! The weather was absolutely brutal - there was just no respite at all and simply couldn't take on enough water. Seeing Shadow at mile 25 was incredible - the power of the internet!! I was totally blown away by the support from mile 1 to the end, there really is no event like it in the world. The heat slowed me down by about 30 mins so slightly frustrated but not disappointed- in fact I'm over the bloody moon!

Id prefer 7 to win it 😅😅

Luke Gale signed for Doncaster at 18 yrs of age - after being at Leeds. Good job there was a League 1 side for him to hone his skills at.....and some fella named Ellery Hanley coaching at the club,at the time.

I fear you're putting cart before the horse. The Brand is worn because the underlying product has serious issues. Transform the product first, then change the brand to cement it, as Superleague itself did back in 95-96. Perhaps NA teams will be the gamechanger. But I wouldn't put all my eggs in that basket yet.

In the early years of SL we had Bradford, Worky and Oldham. Now L1 clubs. The expression is 'there but for the grace of God go I'.

Shurrup, ya lefty!

We bring in Same Sex Marriage legislation, but do we get called the Lib Dem Happiness Bringers, no We bring in a £2.5Billion banking levy but are walled the Lib Dem Banker beashers, no We stopped "fire at will" employment legislation but are we called the Lib Dem job protectors, no. We get caught with 1 Goat.....

Exactly, this is the crucial bit. When the role and structure of the championship/L1 is even questioned, people seem to act like it's the death of the entire game being proposed. It's nonsense. It's the hundreds of amateur heartland clubs out there that provide the vast bulk of domestic players into SL, yet everyone seems to want to die in a ditch to keep giving Hemel 75k a year. If you gave Siddal or Fev Lions 75k a year for 10 years you'd be guaranteed a far higher flow of players, because the money would only enhance the physical/human/community infrastructure they already have, rather than building from scratch. And before people go off on one, I'm NOT saying Hemel should lose their money, just that we don't seem to really know what we want from L1 (is it a presence in expansion areas, community programs, both, something else) let alone whether a 3rd so-called professional tier is the best way to do it.

Why is this even a topic on a Workington Town forum?

If S/L want to use D/R in league 1(which I hate) then they should let team's keep the 75k a year or even increase it. Or run there own reserve comp, and let league 1 try an get a media deal.

At the risk of sounding like Parky... I agree that at the moment there are only 4 or 5 super clubs, I agree that clubs like Toronto being added will help this situation BUT we do need to be very careful how we do it. For example, replacing Wakey, Salford, Hull KR and Widnes with Toronto, New York, Boston and Hamilton is not without it's problems. What happens to those 4 current SL clubs? Presumably they drop to the Championship and in the current model would likely turn semi-pro. What happens to their player development? What happens to players like Batchelor, Jowitt, Evalds, Lawler, Marsh, Johnstone, Walker, Chapelhow? Or more to the point what happens to the next generation of these players? I understand that some player development occurs in the Championship but a lot less than in SL. I want to see the equivalent of those players from NA, I can't wait to see a New Yorker waltzing through the Wigan defence and streaking down the wing. This will take time though. We need to be careful not to abandon our current clubs in the pursuit of the "Super" clubs elsewhere, especially if it means that we half our player production line. By no means am I a heartland flat capper (Glossop is definitely NOT traditional RL area) but I don't want to see this great game suffer, possibly irreversibly, especially if we commit to American expansion that then doesn't work. Expansion needs to happen, but needs to be properly thought through.

to say the league is not developing sustainable clubs I think is disingenuous when you look at clubs like York and Newcastle who are slowly building themselves up to being good solid clubs with development and an ability to sustain themselves. Then there is Bradford who can build in league one and spend a bit of time to get other parts of the house in order to come back stronger, which is different to building a club but rebuilding one. I also dont see the argument of them being stand alone. I cannot see many 3rd or 4th tier league who can justify the money that is "given to them". Even if you look at football their league 2 (i would guess and it is impossible to actually know) is getting more money from the overarching "football league" sponsorship package than they could justify getting as a "stand alone" comp... league 1 is part of a larger "whole" and it is that whole that is being paid for. I am sure Sky would pay the same even if league 1 didnt exist but that isnt really the point league 1 isnt supposed to be stand alone and that isnt the aim of it (and certainly shouldnt be). The NA clubs do do good for league 1 Toronto added a fair bit of interest to the league last year a continual barrage of new and interesting names (red star belgrade for example) give the league some coverage it would not normally get, some clubs even thought ahead and used that to make it an occasion and get more people through the gates. I'm not saying this is the way forward by any stretch and there has to be limits and not all clubs can cope with the extra pressures put on them but I dont see the argument of them adding nothing even with a short stint in league one, even if it is just a bit of extra interest in a league that struggles to get some.

Trouble with SL is that there are only about 4 or 5 super clubs. The rest are hangers on who rely on the salary cap to be competitive.

So..what are the better solutions to be explored, Sotchy1? What is better for League 1 than being a semi-professional 3rd tier league spread widely across England and Wales that brings together new areas and traditional areas? Perhaps, we should turn it into a giant collage? It's a bit rich saying League 1 is subsidised. 14 clubs getting £75k each adds up to around £1 million a year or roughly 2.5% of the £40 million a year TV contract. It's simply not true to say that League 1 has no value, especially when you see some of the games this season and the interest they are getting. League 1 over the last couple of years have seen average crowds surge when crowds in Super League have plateaued. Finally, your pragmatic look at League 1 seems to be a rehash of meaningless phrases... "...It isn't really working."..but I can see...teams are turning up each week to play games, the winners get the right amount of points, some clubs are doing well, some aren't, the league tables look to be published regularly and are quite interesting, in what way is that not working. "its not growing in to a viable competition in its own right" - just about the most tired cliche in Rugby League at the moment. There seems to be scores of players turning up every week and trying to win followed by thousands of supporters..that seems like a competition to me. Last years winners got promoted which seems to be viable competition in my eyes.

"You", "You" - wash your mouth out with soap and water that man!!

Why would Manchester be a problem for a team in Swindon?

Inspired by Futtocks' Cheesy B Movie thread, and by my acquisition of a Cineworld Unlimited card, I thought I'd do a bit of a film review thread of stuff I've seen recently that I'd recommend (or not) to others. Feel free to add your own! In no particular order... Funny Cow - Maxine Peake plays a good part as an aspiring female comic in the 70s, but if you're looking for a laugh, give it a wide berth. It is definitely not a comedy or an uplifting night out. And the jokes she does tell, in the brief 'on stage' sequence are excruciatingly of their time that'll make you glad times have moved on since then. Ready Player One - Spielberg does video games. It's visually spectacular, but it wasn't really my cup of tea, as I'm not and never have been a gamer so I'll have missed probably a thousand in-jokes and references. It reminded me a bit of Willy Wonka at the end (and that's a compliment). A Quiet Place - Loved this one. I'm not usually a fan of horror films, but this is more suspenseful than gory, and it's interesting to see a film with hardly any dialogue that is so gripping. I went to see it in a busy cinema on a Saturday night and people hardly dare scoff their popcorn during the really quiet bits. Ghost Stories - Another spooky offering, I enjoyed this more than I thought I would tbh. Three seemingly separate stories linked by a twist at the end, hard to say anything more without offering any spoilers, but if you like old Amicus or Hammer horrors, or Inside No. 9 on TV, you should really go to see this. The Guernsey Literary & Potato Peel Pie Society - Don't be put off by the clunky title which doesn't really do it any favours. It's a decent little wartime mystery with a good cast, but not too many surprises. It could've done with being a bit pacier, it's about 20 minutes too long. I made the mistake of going to an early morning screening that, unbeknown to me, was subtitled for the hard of hearing. As the opening scene features shouty German soldiers, it took me a good five minutes to realise they were subtitling the English characters as well, which was a bit distracting over two hours. Scott and Sid - I saw this in a rare cinema screening in Bradford, as I don't think it's had a major release, but it is well worth catching on DVD or download. It's the (mostly) true story about a couple of downtrodden Bradford schoolmates who overcome the woes in their home lives to forge a successful business partnership and eventually go on to, er, make this film, which is basically what it's about. The two young actors who play the leads are very good, though its odd they chose to film the Bradford scenes in York, as it doesn't look grim enough (I'm a Bradfordian, I'm allowed to say that, no one else is though!! ) Black Panther - I used to watch a lot of superhero movies, then got a bit stalled with them so have missed a sizeable chunk of the 'Marvel Cinematic Universe' as it's called these days, to the extent I likely won't have a clue what's going on in the new Avengers movie when it comes out in June (that's Avengers: Infinity War, not 'The New Avengers' movie, though I'd definitely pay to see the return of Purdey, Gambit and Steed, if they ever decided to make that one). The unavoidable hype surrounding Black Panther got me back into the cinema to see what the fuss was about, and it was, well, it was ok. I liked the concept of the hidden African nation of Wakanda, and the James Bond-ish elements with all the gadgets, but there were bits where I felt I was being hit over the head with a stick bearing the words 'this is a REALLY important cinematic landmark' when really, it's just another superhero film. The Greatest Showman - I thought I'd hate this, but it was hugely enjoyable. Possibly deserves a place in the cheesy B movie thread, as it is no great cinematic shakes and corny as hell, but hell, they get half a lifetime's exposition out of the way in the space of a single song, and all the songs are really catchy. I predict this'll pop up on TV on Boxing Day for the rest of recorded time. Unsane - This is really claustrophobic, filmed entirely on iPhones apparently, and starring Claire Foy (aka HM Queen on Netflix) who accidentally gets committed to a disreputable psychiatric hospital while also being terrorised by a former partner. You'll feel like you've been through the wringer after watching it. I'm not sure 'enjoyable' would be an appropriate description for the subject matter, but it's definitely gripping. That's it for now, I might add a few more later if I can be bothered!

A Leeds Rhinos academy product who would be most likely out of the game by now if there had been no League 1 for him to drop down into and re-establish himself

I think the point is that in considering the “return” on L1, thought needs to be given to its wider benefits as well as costs. These have been summed up very well by a number of contributors (and thanks scotchy1 for your posts they’ve generated interesting discussion and made me think ‘what’s the point of L1?’) L1 is itself is generating a lot of interest, blimey we’ve even got our own podcast! When I started watching Skolars 6-7 years ago it did feel the league was a bit of a back water but it certainly doesn’t now! I might even venture to say it’s the most interesting league and there’s some great rugby being played.

Just to clarify, im not proposing we do this immediately but should a change in structure happen, especially if that led to a much increased geographic spread, it would be a convenient time to do it.

I thought that was the general rugby league forum, I was under the impression that this was for Workington Town related topics?

@bearman. Black phones can only connect to the dark web. I think.😜

51 tackles is the highest we've had since I started doing the stats on Oldham beating Langtree's 49 against Whitehaven at home to stay up. Most metres interestingly came in the same game from Scott Turner with 294m. Most ever carries was Crowley with 35 at York away in the semi final in I think 2014.

MODERATOR:Just a reminder to all fans that visit us on the Workington town forum,This forum IS not solely for town fans.This forum is open to all rugby league fans who have an opinion, or something to contribute regarding their club.Thankyou for all your posts..

The Lib Dems spent five years in coalition with the Tories. That doesn't make them very left wing at all. Centrist = not left wing.

Like's like me saying Anna Soubry is a frothy mouthed right wing whack job. Ludicrous!! For reference, I point you to the LibDems actions whilst in government.

i dont get this image we have that the junior and amateur game will act as a catalyst for the creation of a professional side, when it seems quite obvious the opposite is true and the professional game is far more a catalyst for the creation of junior and amateur sides.

Big difference in the case of Liverpool.Leeds has a deep rugby tradition pre dating the existence of LUFC .The Liverpool sporting public never embraced rugby to any significant degree despite having a team there for 50 years or so .The RU club,one of the oldest going had to merge with St Helens RUFC.For a Liverpool RL team to flourish you'd need an effort along the lines of Melbourne Storm ie 10s of millions over decades to fund an attractive winning team and thats before you think about the cultural side of things.Its about 12 miles from the centre of St Helens and Widnes to Liverpool City centre but the cultural chasm is huge.Rugby in general and RL in particular is irredeemably "Woolyback".

Hi Parky. Trying a new, softer approach I see under a different name. Worth a try. What some want to do is reduce or retain the same number of SL clubs, which would mean as new teams arrive such as Toronto, others would have to be relegated. I'd like to see current teams be retained if good enough and increase the league size. The reason is if teams from N America come, they should bring in money, negating the issue of less funds shared among more teams.

Totally agree. As ever the problem with Super League or the Championship criticising the lower divisions is that fundamentally little actually separates them. People in glass houses and all that. I read a great comment either on here or somewhere else saying 'give Doncaster a million pounds and they'd be a Super League club' and that is exactly the issue here. Aside from the current financial big 5 plus Catalans, what difference is there between York, Featherstone and Salford, or Newcastle, Halifax and Wakefield for example, other than Salford and Wakefield get the much larger amount of central funding? It epitomises the lack of vision and leadership in our sport at the moment beyond short term interests. If I were a bottom half of Super League (financially) club and had the choice between a league structure with the opportunity for progression and relegation versus a 20 team closed shop I know what I'd be voting for; purely on the basis there is no guarantee that all of those clubs will get in to that select 20. League 1 is a necessary, valuable part of the Rugby League and must continue to be so.

No, not yet, New York in the shape of England RL enthusiast Tim Wilby applied in October, to follow David Argylle Australian RL enthusiast. Post his RFL duties Mr. Wood is just checking the books at NY, Boston and Hamilton with Mr. Perez before the announcement that these clubs will enter League 2 the new league being created to accommodate the new start ups in the form of four leagues of 10. Is this Manchester New Hampshire? If it's England then surely Bury Broncos who have built a sizeable Junior set up should be admitted to the professional ranks. Bring back Trafford Borough as well, on condition they set up Juniors. According to TFIL they all have a weaker case without "Juniors". However as there is no junior game over there it is unfair to ask them to have any grass roots set up at all. That will of course take years so each of the clubs can run with 28 English and Antipodean players and no North American players at all just like TWP do now. To allow them to be competitive I assume the current £1.9 Million salary cap plus Marquee signings allowance and unlimited transfer fees (who needs juniors) will be kept in place, that way the path to Superleague will be smooth, if we can get them started for next season who knows, Superleague 1 in a few years can be New York, Boston, Hamilton, Toronto, Manchester New Hampshire, Wigan, Leeds, Saints, Hull and Wire. Then Mr. Perez can finally sign that promised Billion Dollar TV deal for a half and half transatlantic league. What becomes of Cas, Wakey, Widnes, HKR, Huddersfield and their juniors. I dunno, but well worth sacrificing for the future of Rugby League.

Quote: "Finally I heard about Roy Haggarty dieing yesterday. I will always remember the second round challenge cup against saints at sheddings. 1987 I think and Roy took out our stand off Bridge, an aussie, we lost the match. I spoke to Murphy, Alex, the saints coach and I said to him what a dirty sod Haggarty was. He said that he carried out the instruction and that they won". Brett Clarke and John Fieldhouse on the St Helens squad that day. Lovely (but sad) to see a big crowd packing the old place.

Fair play to the Jameaters..good win yesterday and i hope they get a good money spinner in the draw.But look at the post's on this forum.Haven 1238 Town 70,842 ..wow that is a massive difference .Town is the best supported forum of all the division one clubs so unless you jameaters are going through a decent run (as you are now) your all very quiet.Good or bad Town fans will post their opinion..Enough said :-)

I'm struggling to see exactly what Super League does in the 'value for money' stakes. On the playing of the sport side - since it's inception we still trail some way behind Australia - be it 'elite' international games,or club games. On the playing numbers side of things - some clubs don't run reserve sides;some clubs don't run academies. Attendances appear to have a glass ceiling. When players reach a certain age they are discarded. Seems to me things are getting worse as times progress when it comes to the top league.Even the international sides require players who ply their trade overseas. If Super League clubs do have young players being paid less than the minimum wage it would seem the whole game requires root and branch review.....but we know that.

Outrageous discrimination, what about non totalrl readers?

Yes- having just seen the very limited footage on deekaboot Rochdale just didn't seem to be interested. Good to see Callum in sparkling form prior to his return to the right shirt!

Hi All, Just here to say a big THANK YOU/ DIOCH YN FAWR for the hospitality shown to our travelling fans yesterday. We ignored the rogue poster encouraging us to go to the Railway Club and spent our hard earned in your bar. As always a good rapport with your fans who were very complimentary about how well Crusaders played yesterday. Oh....An I think we all agree about the referee... truely terrible. See you all at our place - don't forget we've moved - to Queensway Stadium, Queensway, Wrexham LL13 8UH - a warm welcome and a well stocked bar awaits!

Thanks, I really enjoyed the game, terrific atmosphere in the main stand. The more I see of James Ford the more impressed I am. After the final hooter, with many in my vicinity baying for the referee's blood, I watched him walk to the match officials leaving the pitch, to shake their hands and thank them. I am not naive enough to realise harsher words may have been exchanged away from prying eyes, but, I for one, appreciated this dignified gesture, when some coaches I can think of would have indulged in crowd pleasing remonstrating. I will definitely be coming to Bootham Crescent more regularly, I think York play some wonderful rugby. I have only 2 minor gripes about my day, Brigantes, closed for refurbishment, and I was 5 tickets away from winning the £175 half time draw. I like the £5 off vouchers for the next game, I hope enough people were sufficiently impressed with yesterday's performance to take advantage of the initiative. Thanks again for everybody's friendliness, on this forum and at the game, in particular Jon Flatman, looking forward to my next visit.

I dont think I've ever heard a soccer,RU or Cricket fan declare " Thats it , Im never watching a game again because of a/b/c ". It seems to be a very RL thing

still the greatest game for me and i watch all levels and very rarely come away with any doubts, i say good riddance to all the moaners we can do without you. i look forward to the future of our great game which is only bright.

A wonderful performance from York today. I hope for your sake you can keep hold of Mr Ford. Young coaches with his obvious ability are thin on the ground and I think it's only a matter of time before a bigger club comes knocking on his door.