The Money Chain

[RayCee]

I'd like to express how I see the current UK RL situation and would welcome input if I haven't got this right.

My ideal: That UK RL is like an iceberg, SL being the bit on the top you see and all the divisions below, all the volunteers, the parents that take their children along to matches. That the RFL is responsible for running the whole game and apportions money generated by the sale of TV rights, sponsorship etc. It is the captain in charge of the ship UK RL.

Reality: That Sky only shows SL matches and that gives SL clubs belief that it is therefore their money. The game needs them far more than they need the game. The RFL is essentially their puppet to control and the rest of the sport outside of SL should be grateful for any crumbs that fall off their masters table. 

In effect, SL controls the purse strings. They call the shots or otherwise they will go it alone. What that means is the game below SL isn't well funded and in the main struggles financially. If a TV deal was struck that doubled the revenue, virtually all of it would remain with the SL clubs and most of that increase in funds would due course be gobbled up by player wages. Below SL, not much would change financially otherwise.

 

[Rupert Prince]

2 minutes ago, RayCee said:

I'd like to express how I see the current UK RL situation and would welcome input if I haven't got this right.

My ideal: That UK RL is like an iceberg, SL being the bit on the top you see and all the divisions below, all the volunteers, the parents that take their children along to matches. That the RFL is responsible for running the whole game and apportions money generated by the sale of TV rights, sponsorship etc. It is the captain in charge of the ship UK RL.

Reality: That Sky only shows SL matches and that gives SL clubs belief that it is therefore their money. The game needs them far more than they need the game. The RFL is essentially their puppet to control and the rest of the sport outside of SL should be grateful for any crumbs that fall off their masters table. 

In effect, SL controls the purse strings. They call the shots or otherwise they will go it alone. What that means is the game below SL isn't well funded and in the main struggles financially. If a TV deal was struck that doubled the revenue, virtually all of it would remain with the SL clubs and most of that increase in funds would due course be gobbled up by player wages. Below SL, not much would change financially otherwise.

 

No reason to see that the double money would all go to SL clubs. With more money we could grow more SL clubs and produce more players.

The top leagues in any sport get the money from the TV companies. 

[Oliver Clothesoff]

Super League don’t control anything, in reality. Sky are the puppeteers, Super League is the puppet. The lower leagues and the amateur game aren’t important or relevant in Sky’s eyes. 

[Southerner80]

1 hour ago, RayCee said:

I'd like to express how I see the current UK RL situation and would welcome input if I haven't got this right.

My ideal: That UK RL is like an iceberg, SL being the bit on the top you see and all the divisions below, all the volunteers, the parents that take their children along to matches. That the RFL is responsible for running the whole game and apportions money generated by the sale of TV rights, sponsorship etc. It is the captain in charge of the ship UK RL.

Reality: That Sky only shows SL matches and that gives SL clubs belief that it is therefore their money. The game needs them far more than they need the game. The RFL is essentially their puppet to control and the rest of the sport outside of SL should be grateful for any crumbs that fall off their masters table. 

In effect, SL controls the purse strings. They call the shots or otherwise they will go it alone. What that means is the game below SL isn't well funded and in the main struggles financially. If a TV deal was struck that doubled the revenue, virtually all of it would remain with the SL clubs and most of that increase in funds would due course be gobbled up by player wages. Below SL, not much would change financially otherwise.

 

I agree with the last paragraph. Soccer shows us an increased TV deal tends to mean huge wadge increases and not much for the lower divisions..... 

I also agree with Oliver that Sky effectively control RL in the UK and are responsible for the fully pro game we enjoy today. I hope they are willing to spend enough to keep it at a sustainable level going forward. 

 

[Padge]

SL does own the vast majority of the Sky money, that is who Sky are paying to show, the rest is lucky fluff.

[Smudger06]

This is the thing, Super League don't share, give away or donate any form of their money, the Championship is also owned by Sky who are effectively paying to lock it away from other broadcasters to maintain Rugby League exclusivity, with the exception of Summer Bash, it's about £3m p.a, also Sky pay specifically for it's challenge Cup Games to the RFL.

Therefore, a lot of Super League fans think it's their money, & They are very generous handing out crumbs, and they should hand out even less and keep more....., if they could, they would, when in fact they don't give out a penny for.the rest of the sport from TV revenue, they do however pay RFL for certain services provided. 

[yipyee]

58 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

This is the thing, Super League don't share, give away or donate any form of their money, the Championship is also owned by Sky who are effectively paying to lock it away from other broadcasters to maintain Rugby League exclusivity, with the exception of Summer Bash, it's about £3m p.a, also Sky pay specifically for it's challenge Cup Games to the RFL.

Therefore, a lot of Super League fans think it's their money, & They are very generous handing out crumbs, and they should hand out even less and keep more....., if they could, they would, when in fact they don't give out a penny for.the rest of the sport from TV revenue, they do however pay RFL for certain services provided. 

They pay for league1 as well!

[RayCee]

7 hours ago, RayCee said:

If a TV deal was struck that doubled the revenue, virtually all of it would remain with the SL clubs and most of that increase in funds would due course be gobbled up by player wages. 

 

7 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

No reason to see that the double money would all go to SL clubs.

That's why I didn't say all.

7 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

The top leagues in any sport get the money from the TV companies. 

Who were you answering with this comment? That wasn't the point raised, but rather who gets it and what they do with it. 

It was incorrect anyway because while sport derives much of its money from media, it also does get much from gate takings and sponsorship deals.

In the main, owning a sports team isn't a profitable venture, but a rich man's indulgence.The reason is that in any pro sport, the players take a large percentage of the money generated. There's no reason to think RL is any different. By SL getting the money, that is where it will mainly go. That is, paying more to UK players to keep them here and not going off to the NRL, plus enticing NRL players over.

[Smudger06]

9 hours ago, yipyee said:

They pay for league1 as well!

Not sure about that, i don't think they do, that's why it's streamed by Proper Sport and Betfred 

[Smudger06]

To be fair, the Championship as gone up massively in value since the last TV deals were signed, what with the glory of promotion and the despair of relegation, Sky knew there was every chance a freeview TV Channel would buy a game of the round for 2.5m to 3m per season back then.....if the value of the Championship rises clearly a knock on effect occurs and the value of the top tier rises. This could not happen if the top tier ring fenced themselves and alienated the Super League from the makings of a potentially good overall sporting structure as we saw last time licencing was used. 

Obviously clubs care about away fans buying matchday tickets, programmes and food/drink, for the better off clubs that's profit that can be invested back into areas of the clubs, for the weaker clubs that's the difference between  breaking even and ownerships subsidising the clubs operating costs. Not to mention the more away fans the better the atmosphere for all attending and the better it looks on TV. 

[Smudger06]

There's little value in League 1 unfortunately BUT, it plays it's part in the knock on effect of increasing the value of the Championship (in the same way the Championship lifts the value of Super Lesgue) it creates competition at the bottom end of the Championship and it freshens it up with newly promoted teams. It gives teams in trouble a place to go and is a place for new clubs to start life. So here's a difference, from SL Clubs and fans thinking.....rather than say there's not enough money, deny L1 clubs money, hoard money, no, they should get more money, recognising the value they provide to Championship Clubs. 

[Rupert Prince]

1 hour ago, Smudger06 said:

There's little value in League 1 unfortunately BUT, it plays it's part in the knock on effect of increasing the value of the Championship (in the same way the Championship lifts the value of Super Lesgue) it creates competition at the bottom end of the Championship and it freshens it up with newly promoted teams. It gives teams in trouble a place to go and is a place for new clubs to start life. So here's a difference, from SL Clubs and fans thinking.....rather than say there's not enough money, deny L1 clubs money, hoard money, no, they should get more money, recognising the value they provide to Championship Clubs. 

Look at two money making English speaking leagues just for starters...

NRL, AFL...  They do not have relegation or lower league to promote from.   And that's before we go to North America.  NFL, NBA, NHL.   But that make millions, mega millions.

There is no link to adding TV value to relegation and promotion.

[yipyee]

5 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

Not sure about that, i don't think they do, that's why it's streamed by Proper Sport and Betfred 

Nope they bought champ and league1 rights and don't show them.

[Smudger06]

No because the SL Qualifiers was exactly that (separate) competition, not the Championship which continued as the Championship Shield, so they weren't thrown in out of charity or for convenience. Yes it's a pretty obvious fact that the SL TV Deal belongs to Super League. 

The money doesn't flow from Super League to fund the entire game though does it? All the information is available on Companies House for RFL (Governing Body) Ltd and Super League (Europe) Ltd as well as all the Clubs. 

[JoneslessBishop]

The RFL could significantly swell their coffers via improved TV contracts for internationals (more games needed) and the Challenge Cup. and better sponsorship deals. However, given the BBC are perceived to be the best home for these games, to ensure visibility to a wider audience, increases may have limited potential. No reason why ITV couldn’t be brought into the bidding, but they don’t need to give us the prominence the BBC do as the latter can be held politically accountable due to the  receipt of liscence fees

[Smudger06]

Yes I've looked plenty at the NRL & AFL. You lot have had your closed shop and it blaitantly did not work. I'm just stating a simple fact mate, it failed already, and it would fail again, get over it, and think of something else. 

[Smudger06]

3 minutes ago, JoneslessBishop said:

The RFL could significantly swell their coffers via improved TV contracts for internationals (more games needed) and the Challenge Cup. and better sponsorship deals. However, given the BBC are perceived to be the best home for these games, to ensure visibility to a wider audience, increases may have limited potential. No reason why ITV couldn’t be brought into the bidding, but they don’t need to give us the prominence the BBC do as the latter can be held politically accountable due to the  receipt of liscence fees

Not to mention Viacoms channel 5, whom could help us developing a suitable app modelled on watch NRL , + channel 4, plus others, you invite them all to auction, you wine and dine them, you do a sales pitch once you've worked out exactly what it is you want to sell....

[Smudger06]

Yes they do have lower leagues, which they could promote from, they are called the NSW Cup & Queensland Cup, but there's never been promotion or relegation for one, and for two ARLC does enough to keep them reasonably happy and included, through funding and through representation in the board room in the form of NSWRL & QRL. 

[Smudger06]

2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

But their rights werent sold separately and were intrinsically linked to the sale of SL rights and the wider championship rights. I.e no-one was going to buy the rights to the SL or Championship season only to see the last quarter of the season screened on a different channel.

All the information is there including a line in the SLe accounts about the large payment that goes to the RFL and Championship.

We know that the money comes from SL to the rest of the league we have just seen the negotiations about it take place in public, in real time, for the best part of a year.

Clearly you've not read the full accounts, no large payment goes to THE Championship or League 1. The SL Clubs get their 1.85m each x 12, there's about a million and half of prize money and parachute payments on top. The rest is eaten up by operating costs such as all match officials, hiring st James park, hiring old Trafford etc etc. 

[RayCee]

The point of the post is if RL in the UK could secure a much better deal with media rights, how will the windfall be divided? I see it mainly going to SL clubs, who will then get an increase in salary cap and that's where it will largely end up. I think most would hope it would also be used to develop the game as a whole. 

 

[yipyee]

26 minutes ago, RayCee said:

The point of the post is if RL in the UK could secure a much better deal with media rights, how will the windfall be divided? I see it mainly going to SL clubs, who will then get an increase in salary cap and that's where it will largely end up. I think most would hope it would also be used to develop the game as a whole. 

 

It should be divided into 16 equal parts

12 for SL clubs 2 for championship (to include parachute payment) 1 for league1 and 1 part for RFL.

England should be guaranteed 3 home games a year all profits go to expansion junior RL.

[RayCee]

3 minutes ago, yipyee said:

It should be divided into 16 equal parts

12 for SL clubs 2 for championship (to include parachute payment) 1 for league1 and 1 part for RFL.

England should be guaranteed 3 home games a year all profits go to expansion junior RL.

That has merit. That way, regardless of the media deal, all get something from it and the game below SL doesn't wither.

[Smudger06]

3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Clearly you haven't.

"SLE also makes significant payments to other Rugby League organisations, namely The Championship and Rugby Football League for for the provision of executives and resources"  Page 1 SL(europe) Accounts 2016

 

You know full well I've read it, no need to pull the wool.....

Back in 2016, But I read the 2018 version as well......

Provision of executives and resources, im sorry, that fits my narrative not yours, I've said more than once on this very thread that SLE pays for certain services provided....

Hardly the money that funds the entire game flowing from Super League (your words) 

Flows of money and love should and do go both ways. That's what our sports all about, for the benefit of all whom want to play and want to watch, whatever the level. 

[Smudger06]

You know where the money comes from, it can be split broadly into 3 main sources, commercial revenue, matchday revenue and media rights revenue......The amounts SLE distributes to the ordinary shareholders don't match because it costs money to run a sporting competition. 

[Smudger06]

If you want to know the answer to your question, read the RFL documents it's obliged to file with Companies House, I can assure you I have. You'd be shocked to find out it's turnover is about 21 million compared to SLE 29 million, so tell me again about the bottom feeders eating the generous crumbs SL throws them, a fair whack of that money directly benefits SL Clubs as well as all the efforts at the grass roots community game.......