A Question from a RU Fan.

[timhammonds]

I have. In fact I've packed down in the scrum at both games, granted in the contested scrum RL days. The argument for RL is that with contested scrums there'd be no wide running back rowers, because they'd be too knackered by the end of the game and more room for the half backs to work in. David Hobbs and the Fev pack combined to score Fev's winning try in the '83 final after a 75 minutes of contested scrums. Having said that the Hull pack were out on their feet. The problem with the contested scrum (again as can be seen in the '83 final) is that they had to be constantly set and re-set, with every other one resulting in a penalty. I don't know which I prefer. The open play in the contested scrum era seems just as fast as it is today. But the game was slower because of all the stoppages at scrums. The scrummage laws at RL haven't changed. There's nothing to stop a side putting out an old fashioned scrummaging six and trying to win by outscrummaging a lighter six. Who knows it could be the start of a whole new era for RL? Or would it force the RFL to update the rules, given what a dangerous place a contested scrum can be?

[timhammonds]

Did you see the Halifax/Sheffield game on thursday?

I think it was Halifax who had head and feed but lost the scrum.

In the recent showing of the 1978 Challenge Cup final the ball was fed into the scrum from about 6 feet away!

[dallymessenger]

RL contested scrums were not pointless, and I would estimate that at least 20% went against the head on average.

RU scrums are more stable that is why they hardly ever win against the feed. However they are there to tire forwards out

they were a mess.

as i said on another thread you had penalties for

1. incorrect feed, not straight

2. props not bound correctly

3. screwing the scrum round

4. etc etc etc

im glad we got rid of them. like we got rid of the lineout, a contested scrum was the same.

[Kenilworth Tiger]

they were a mess.

as i said on another thread you had penalties for

1. incorrect feed, not straight

2. props not bound correctly

3. screwing the scrum round

4. etc etc etc

im glad we got rid of them. like we got rid of the lineout, a contested scrum was the same.

Spot on Dally

[Cofi]

1. No point, it's a relic of the method of re-starting play, that by rights shoud simply be a tap ball. It remains because people do not like change, even those who favour it won't go too far.

2. RL Forwards, Paleeasina, Crabtree, Griffin, Fielden, Morley.

RL Backs, Riley, Burrow, Eastmond, Brough, Myler.

They clearly are NOT the same.

I've thought about suggesting this but was too scared to do so! The scrum, as has been mentioned already, does get the forwards out of the way for at least one play. Is an uncontested scrum the only formation that's able to do that or can another formation be devised behind the tap ball if the rules were changed?

[paley]

Why should a team which knocks on or does anything else which gives the feed to the other team receive an advantage? Union with its lineouts and scrums give an advantage to a team with a dominant scrum or lineout - that is clearly a nonsense.

[sgorpioncaerdyddrob]

Why should a team which knocks on or does anything else which gives the feed to the other team receive an advantage? Union with its lineouts and scrums give an advantage to a team with a dominant scrum or lineout - that is clearly a nonsense.

Whenever I used to play Union I would just look away at the pretty girls lining the touchline and hope I might have cuaght one's eye but playing on the right wing with a team of neigh on all right footed players meant I never got much of a chance to show my skills, especially following the inevitable break down and reset of the scrum, even the CROUCH HOLD ENGAGE set that they have brought in now as done little to improve the binding and the physical contest these fans of that element refer to. resulting in numerous resets and cheap penalties To me it was all about the flair, quick tapp, grubber and the show and go. On moving up North al beit staying in God's country I soon discovered Rugby League maintained most of these charms without the endless druggery of the ROLLING RUCK , it stopped being a 'scrum' in the purest sense years ago. But as a winger I would say that.

Oh by the way ,do you know a couple of taffy's paul and claire who follow the bees round your neck of the woods? they follow them everywhere!!

[dkw]

Why should a team which knocks on or does anything else which gives the feed to the other team receive an advantage? Union with its lineouts and scrums give an advantage to a team with a dominant scrum or lineout - that is clearly a nonsense.

Thats something ive never understood about Union, a team could dominate possession due to being dominant from Lineouts and Scrums. They could make mistake after mistake in open play yet still be pretty safe in the knowledge they had a good chance of getting it back. Granted it wont happen at the higher levels but im sure at lower levels some clubs scrums and lineouts could be much better than their oppo`s.

[Wolford6]

Thats something ive never understood about Union, a team could dominate possession due to being dominant from Lineouts and Scrums. They could make mistake after mistake in open play yet still be pretty safe in the knowledge they had a good chance of getting it back. Granted it wont happen at the higher levels but im sure at lower levels some clubs scrums and lineouts could be much better than their oppo`s.

[Harry Enfield Kevin Mode] Life's just not fair!!! [Harry Enfield Kevin Mode]

[Gosman]

Why should a team which knocks on or does anything else which gives the feed to the other team receive an advantage? Union with its lineouts and scrums give an advantage to a team with a dominant scrum or lineout - that is clearly a nonsense.

This is getting dangerously close to being a cross code forum discussion, if it hasn't already gone over that line that is.

What teams do you know of that have deliberately knocked on to get a scrum?

What does the line out have to do with anything in regard to a team making mistakes?

I could equally alter that last sentence to read "Union with its rucks and mauls give an advantage to a team with a good maulers and players who can get to the rucks first ." and it would be just as stating the bleeding obvious.

Edited September 21, 2010 by Gosman

[koli]

In retrospect I think the main problem was simply attitude.The players were always looking for ways to cheat-twisting,lying across the tunnel,feeding etc and the crowds basically accepted that that was to be expected from professional players and wouldn't allow the ref to effectively police the rules.While an RL scrum is inherently less stable than an RU scrum a much better attempt could have been made to enforce proper body position n feed.

[timhammonds]

In retrospect I think the main problem was simply attitude.The players were always looking for ways to cheat-twisting,lying across the tunnel,feeding etc and the crowds basically accepted that that was to be expected from professional players and wouldn't allow the ref to effectively police the rules.While an RL scrum is inherently less stable than an RU scrum a much better attempt could have been made to enforce proper body position n feed.

Exactly right, why retain the scrum if we are not going to do it properly?

The RFL like to introduce new facets to our game each year, here is my suggestion for the next one; Play scrums properley, bind down correctly (safety issue) and no feeding.

This would force teams to develop this weapon in the armoury or constantly scede possesion and would stop RU folk sneering at our game as this small play done so badly is one of the two(along with 6 tackles) examples that they constantly use to champion their code over ours.

[Cofi]

Exactly right, why retain the scrum if we are not going to do it properly?

The RFL like to introduce new facets to our game each year, here is my suggestion for the next one; Play scrums properley, bind down correctly (safety issue) and no feeding.

This would force teams to develop this weapon in the armoury or constantly scede possesion and would stop RU folk sneering at our game as this small play done so badly is one of the two(along with 6 tackles) examples that they constantly use to champion their code over ours.

Or we could get rid of it completely and be truly radical and different!

[Northern Sol]

Why do I pick up so much negativity towards RU by RL fans? There's no need for it there's room in the world for both codes!

It is more of an internet thing. Certainly if you go to watch RL matches (even in the heartlands), the occasional spectator will be wearing an England RU top and nobody blinks an eyelid.

[dallymessenger]

I understand that but lets move on!!! God knows us Welsh could be really cheesed off with the northern clubs for coming down and taking our best players but that was a different era times move on yes?

perhaps when the french union cough up the money they owe

[TheObserver]

welshexile, there was a thread about this last month called scrum. Posters bobrock and I argued that a contested scrum would add an extra dimension to the game and to RL forwards.