welshexile1963 Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Hi all, I am a South West Walian born and bred on Rugby Union, but over the past few years I have been watching Rugby League more and more on TV and enjoying it, I just want a few questions answered, 1. What is the point of the scrum? There's no actual physical competition involved anymore so why not scrap it? 2. The forwards in RL? They dont seem to do much different than the backs, how do you life long supporters differentiate between both? Anyway thanks in advance and I will continue to watch, come on you Crusaders! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackknife Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Hi all, I am a South West Walian born and bred on Rugby Union, but over the past few years I have been watching Rugby League more and more on TV and enjoying it, I just want a few questions answered, 1. What is the point of the scrum? There's no actual physical competition involved anymore so why not scrap it? 2. The forwards in RL? They dont seem to do much different than the backs, how do you life long supporters differentiate between both? Anyway thanks in advance and I will continue to watch, come on you Crusaders! the scrum gets the forwards out of the way n gives the backs a chance to work there magic in attack COME ON THE CORN CLASSY CAS 4EVA Go Go Go York City Knights! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East Coast Tiger Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 The rugby league scrum is no different from the union scrum. The side that feeds it wins it 99% of the time, except in RL we don't waste half an hour of every game packing and re-packing pointless scrums and spending hundreds of hours training just so a team can nullify the other side's equally pointless scrum push. As for backs being the same as forwards, it's just not true. The roles in RL are pretty clearly defined for the most part and the forwards and backs have their own roles. Guyra Super Spuds website Guyra Super Spuds Facebook Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my missus Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 just the same in union, the scrum sets the guy puts the ball in they get it back except in union it takes 5mins. Through the fish-eyed lens of tear stained eyes I can barely define the shape of this moment in time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barnyia Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 hello i read in the french paper that in the lower union competitions they will have just one chance at the scrum. any infringement its a penalty straight away and if the ball comes out and the scrum collapses its play on. barney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l'angelo mysterioso Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Hi all, I am a South West Walian born and bred on Rugby Union, but over the past few years I have been watching Rugby League more and more on TV and enjoying it, I just want a few questions answered, 1. What is the point of the scrum? There's no actual physical competition involved anymore so why not scrap it? 2. The forwards in RL? They dont seem to do much different than the backs, how do you life long supporters differentiate between both? Anyway thanks in advance and I will continue to watch, come on you Crusaders! 1 there aren't many scrums in a rugy league game they are a way of restarting the game whilst at the same time taking 12 players out of the game. 2 I supose you differentiate by observing the tactical stuation, or observing what a player is doing at any one time. Notionally for instance the hooker will go to acting half back, but not necessarily so by any means, props will drive the ball forward, but not necessarily so. these days wingers have a much more to do defensively with the greater number and wider variety of attacking kicks. Tactical situations in rugby league are much more fluid than in union. Don't worry about it mate, just enjoy it. and yes come on the drusaders WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015 Keeping it local Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vambo Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Hi all, I am a South West Walian born and bred on Rugby Union, but over the past few years I have been watching Rugby League more and more on TV and enjoying it, I just want a few questions answered, 1. What is the point of the scrum? There's no actual physical competition involved anymore so why not scrap it? 2. The forwards in RL? They dont seem to do much different than the backs, how do you life long supporters differentiate between both? Anyway thanks in advance and I will continue to watch, come on you Crusaders! Welcome to the forum welshexile Your first question is one that many RL fans also ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumby Magic Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Glad it only took 18 months to come up with the question. Welcome! Question has been answered but keep coming on here and join our great big family plus, Hannibal, Mick and l'angelo mysterio! Like poor jokes? Thejoketeller@mullymessiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghead Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 The point of a scrum is to simply restart play, nothing else, Union made the scrum into a sacred institution, but are now slowly following League. League style scrums will change Union big style, no place left for the fat lads to hide anymore. just sort out how to restart after a tackle and your almost there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1976PMJwires Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 The point of a scrum is to simply restart play, nothing else, Union made the scrum into a sacred institution, but are now slowly following League. League style scrums will change Union big style, no place left for the fat lads to hide anymore. just sort out how to restart after a tackle and your almost there. Great post and spoken like a pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPosh Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Hi all, I am a South West Walian born and bred on Rugby Union, but over the past few years I have been watching Rugby League more and more on TV and enjoying it, I just want a few questions answered, 1. What is the point of the scrum? There's no actual physical competition involved anymore so why not scrap it? 2. The forwards in RL? They dont seem to do much different than the backs, how do you life long supporters differentiate between both? Anyway thanks in advance and I will continue to watch, come on you Crusaders! We used to have contested scrums, but it was felt that they wasted too much time and the specialists required were not always able to hold their own in open play. We could do without them as a form of restarting, but the attacking opportunities that having twelve forwards all in one place are good for the game. Compared to Union, there is less need for specialists for the set plays (short, fat lads and big, tall lads). Naturally, without these extremes, the players do look more similar, but the differences are there and are just as necessary - they are just more subtle. Having said that, stand Lewis Moody and Mike Tindall next to each other and tell me if there is much difference in size. How are you enjoying your introduction to tries? People called Romans they go the house Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Frightful Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 just the same in union, the scrum sets the guy puts the ball in they get it back except in union it takes 5mins. "When I saw the Pistols and The Clash I realised it didn't seem that difficult, they didn't seem like they could play very well either, so the thing was to form a band then work it out. We didn't even know who was going to play what - we passed around all the instruments until we found what we were comfortable with. I wasn't comfortable with any of them so I became the singer." Terry Hall on forming The Specials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Decimus Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 The rugby league scrum is no different from the union scrum. The side that feeds it wins it 99% of the time, except in RL we don't waste half an hour of every game packing and re-packing pointless scrums and spending hundreds of hours training just so a team can nullify the other side's equally pointless scrum push. I'm a bit of a Union novice but there is certainly more to the scrum than just winning the ball. I always thought it was similar to the way a forward pack gets on top in RL. If your forward pack are dominant then you stand a much better chance of winning. One of the ways they get dominant in Union is through the scrum. I remember seeing a match where England's scrum dominated Australia and effectively won the match because they couldn't compete. Hardly riveting but it's not necessarily the same thing. We need to sort out our scrum, if not just to stop people unfamiliar with the game going on about it all the time. I twittered during Challenge Cup final and there were 3 types of comments, those praising the game, those saying it was awful and those saying what is the point in the RL scrum. A Widnesian in Ireland blog What is the best system for Super League? An honest appraisal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob8 Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 I'm a bit of a Union novice but there is certainly more to the scrum than just winning the ball. I always thought it was similar to the way a forward pack gets on top in RL. If your forward pack are dominant then you stand a much better chance of winning. One of the ways they get dominant in Union is through the scrum. I remember seeing a match where England's scrum dominated Australia and effectively won the match because they couldn't compete. Hardly riveting but it's not necessarily the same thing. We need to sort out our scrum, if not just to stop people unfamiliar with the game going on about it all the time. I twittered during Challenge Cup final and there were 3 types of comments, those praising the game, those saying it was awful and those saying what is the point in the RL scrum. Indeed, a well disciplined pack can wear out the opposition, meaning who is winning the scrums at half time is often a better indicator of who will win the game than the score is. In a normal play in RL, the hooker will pass to the forwards, or the scrum half. - The forwards have a specific role here, in that they are best able to hit the ball up. However, whereas in union, the forming of the ruck and maul is important, in league these are not important. Therefore, combined with size and strength, there is an emphasis on speed and on handling ability. The forward might just hit it up, but know that the forward is a good passer of the ball means the defence have to concentrate on wrapping the ball up rather than just hitting in the man down as in rugby union. There is therefore more emphasis on speed and passing in the forwards as opposed to RU. -The scrum half will have two broad options, passing through the backs, typically to the stand off (5/8th). The stand off position can perhaps best be prepared to the inside centre in RU, as this is a creative player who should have some room to operate (as opposed to the fly half position to which it is often compared). I will refer here to Istyn Harris, who went from stand off in RL to fly half in RU, whereas I suspect he would have been better off at inside centre. -Alternatively, the scrum half might look to use the forwards as a unit, with their own plays and move (again there is a greater emphasis on this in RL. Typically, the scrum half might do this by passing to the loose forward (the no. 8 in RU). "You clearly have never met Bob8 then, he's like a veritable Bryan Ferry of RL." - Johnoco 19 Jul 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDave Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 (edited) Welshexile I'd recommend you go along to watch a amateur rugby league match in your local area next time there's one on although it may not be until next year now if they're RLC or non-Conference. I'd say there's a fairly noticable difference in the size difference between a Prop Forward and a winger. Manu Vatuvei is the only exception to the rule that I can think of. Edited September 18, 2010 by HappyDave "I've never seen a woman with hairy ears... And I've been to St Helens" - John Bishop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dallymessenger Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Hi all, I am a South West Walian born and bred on Rugby Union, but over the past few years I have been watching Rugby League more and more on TV and enjoying it, I just want a few questions answered, 1. What is the point of the scrum? There's no actual physical competition involved anymore so why not scrap it? 2. The forwards in RL? They dont seem to do much different than the backs, how do you life long supporters differentiate between both? Anyway thanks in advance and I will continue to watch, come on you Crusaders! forwards have different roles. props are more of the battering rams, taking the ball up initially and getting the defence on the back foot 2nd rowers are more expected to run wider and be able to offload. its true though many current forwards in RL played in the backs in juniors and then put on muscle even forwards are expected to have good offloading / passing skills in RL, its the nature of the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dallymessenger Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 to the union fan you need to watch the ruck / tackle, thats where the contest is. the tackle is a battle between defence and offence. the attack wants a quick play the ball the defence wants to slow it down by getting the tackled player on his back etc its the ruck speed which determines the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doghead Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Perhaps the worst aspect of a Union game is the fact that forwards dont stay on their feet, choosing 99% of the time to go to ground hoping for a quick recycle of the ball, then they do it again, progress up field if any is very slow. Watch league, granted two less players but top teams can and do make 40/50 yards most 6 tackles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShotgunGold Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 When I first watched RL the scrum was the only time when I went WTF. It's the worst bit about the game and something needs changing. Don't actually know how it needs to change, but it does!! I can't imagine how many people it puts off the game when they are watching for the first time. When I am explaining the game to a friend (which is pretty regular) I just keep quiet when a scrum happens!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkw Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 When I first watched RL the scrum was the only time when I went WTF. It's the worst bit about the game and something needs changing. Don't actually know how it needs to change, but it does!! I can't imagine how many people it puts off the game when they are watching for the first time. When I am explaining the game to a friend (which is pretty regular) I just keep quiet when a scrum happens!! Believe me when I tell you the scrum used to an absolute mess in RL, it was as bad if not worse than the scrum in union now. It was horrible to watch at times, taking minutes on end to get right then leading to a penalty as the ref finally lost patience. Its much better now than then and adds to the flow of the game as we now know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyXIII Posted September 18, 2010 Share Posted September 18, 2010 Perhaps the worst aspect of a Union game is the fact that forwards dont stay on their feet, choosing 99% of the time to go to ground hoping for a quick recycle of the ball, then they do it again, progress up field if any is very slow. Watch league, granted two less players but top teams can and do make 40/50 yards most 6 tackles. And make those 40/50 yards in about a minute! The game is just so much more fluid. If you think the scrums are pointless, you are coming from a union background. They are much better than they were and a whole lot better than union scrums, if only you can see them with fresh eyes! League scrums are just a quick(ish) way to restart the game. The only time the ref demands a reset scrum is if there aren't 6 players packed down. That happens once, then the scrum is fed, the ball is released and the game continues. Try timing a few league scrums and union scrums and compare them. League scrums are over faster. Not a problem. Rethymno Rugby League Appreciation Society Founder (and, so far, only) member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshexile1963 Posted September 19, 2010 Author Share Posted September 19, 2010 The rugby league scrum is no different from the union scrum. The side that feeds it wins it 99% of the time, except in RL we don't waste half an hour of every game packing and re-packing pointless scrums and spending hundreds of hours training just so a team can nullify the other side's equally pointless scrum push. As for backs being the same as forwards, it's just not true. The roles in RL are pretty clearly defined for the most part and the forwards and backs have their own roles. A few points here, firstly most if not all RU fans enjoy watching the physical battle between forwards at a scrum, but I do take your point, but you state "As for backs being the same as forwards, it's just not true. The roles in RL are pretty clearly defined for the most part and the forwards and backs have their own roles" please clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshexile1963 Posted September 19, 2010 Author Share Posted September 19, 2010 1 there aren't many scrums in a rugy league game they are a way of restarting the game whilst at the same time taking 12 players out of the game. 2 I supose you differentiate by observing the tactical stuation, or observing what a player is doing at any one time. Notionally for instance the hooker will go to acting half back, but not necessarily so by any means, props will drive the ball forward, but not necessarily so. these days wingers have a much more to do defensively with the greater number and wider variety of attacking kicks. Tactical situations in rugby league are much more fluid than in union. Don't worry about it mate, just enjoy it. and yes come on the drusaders Thanks that clarifies things a lot, and I do enjoy watching, I played Union for many years and would have loved having a go at League however my build is for a front row forward in Union and dont think i would have been any good in League. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshexile1963 Posted September 19, 2010 Author Share Posted September 19, 2010 The point of a scrum is to simply restart play, nothing else, Union made the scrum into a sacred institution, but are now slowly following League. League style scrums will change Union big style, no place left for the fat lads to hide anymore. just sort out how to restart after a tackle and your almost there. What about us fat lads!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshexile1963 Posted September 19, 2010 Author Share Posted September 19, 2010 Thanks for all the replies and most have been very useful and many very funny, I will always love RU but I am growing to love RL with each game, and at least we dont watch that stupid game played with a round ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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