Proposed Letter to CH requesting a meeting - see Rugby Oldham thread for background.

[roughyedspud]

I was on the pitch that day against Salford when everyone was singing "Stick Your Merger Up Your ****"

It was me that made that sign that said " stick a salford merger up your a***"

Ive got photos of it somewhere lol

[roughyedspud]

I was on the pitch that day against Salford when everyone was singing "Stick Your Merger Up Your ****"

It was me that made that sign that said " stick a salford merger up your a***"

Ive got photos of it somewhere lol

[roughyedspud]

 

thats me on the left in the oldham jearsey pointing towards the sheddings end....oh to be 15 again.

[ShawResident]

_{Scary to think how far we have fallen since that day roughyedspud. I remember the lone guy going sitting on the halfway line and slowly more and more people joining him united in support of their club. "UNITY" now theres a concept that seems to have long since been lost in the last few years. I attended A Team matches that had exceeded 1000 fans on a Friday night so I cant believe that the support for an Oldham Club is not out there, it just needs to be brought back to being a club. I for one am already looking forward to buying my first season ticket in years and bringing my lad to see my club in the same way my dad did with me all those years ago just a pity it wont be in the penny rush. I have no axe to grind with Chris Hamiliton I am sure in the begining he had the clubs best intrests at heart when he set out in 1997 but the harsh truth is that the wheels have come off and we are hurtling into oblivion. I really hope Chris can be persuaded to see the light and put the club first and that RO and the fans can get the club back on course. Good luck to those stalwarts that have kept the faith and are pursuing this line.}

[roughyedspud]

That lone guy was braddy...who went on to be the worlds best mascot,he was "the" oldham bear....made a career out of it lol

What we need to do is make oldham fall in love with Rugby League again.

100 years ago we drew 24,000 v huddersfield

in 1995 we drew 9,000 v huddersfield in the 1/4s of the challenge cup....v huddersfield again..

3 week ago we drew 250......thats how far we have fallen....we're down to 1%

[HARRYRUBY]

In my opinion 4 people is too small a number. CH is in the driving seat.

 

By categorising 4 type of supporters at a meeting CH or any one could make assumptions as to what the questions might be and prepare the answers accordingly.

 

If you want to get the full facts regarding any aspect of the club the agenda must be set by the fans and ask him questions from the floor with answers that are not prepared prior to a meeting.

 

However to get any sort of meeting with CH is a start and I wish you all success with it.

[andykenny]

The concerns have been put to Hamilton. Tubey has done that as well as it could be done.Hamilton needs to address these concerns one way or another. That's the only agenda needed.

After this the attendees will report as to how he addresses said concerns and then I think we will all get the gist of the situation.He might wish to prepare answers which is fine .Its not about tripping the man up we just want to know what the plan is, if he has one.

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

Harry, Public meetings have not worked in the past.

We have set the agenda. We have outlined the matters for discussion and set a timeline for discussions to take place.

If he read the forum over recent months he'd know ALL the questions anyway.

The meeting proposal is part of a 'bigger' process.

Just ranting at CH will not open the club's mind, it will close it.

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

Harry, Public meetings have not worked in the past.

We have set the agenda. We have outlined the matters for discussion and set a timeline for discussions to take place.

If he read the forum over recent months he'd know ALL the questions anyway.

The meeting proposal is part of a 'bigger' process.

Just ranting at CH will not open the club's mind, it will close it.

[OutsiderLookingIn]

I'll be brave and stick my head above the parapet (although too late to have any input on the letter, which is fine) and say Im sort of in camp 4. I am a great supporter of CH, and believe he truly has the best interests of the club at heart, but has to work with what he has at the current time.

 

If you could send me a darft of the letter that would be great, and much appreciated.

[HARRYRUBY]

Harry, Public meetings have not worked in the past.

We have set the agenda. We have outlined the matters for discussion and set a timeline for discussions to take place.

If he read the forum over recent months he'd know ALL the questions anyway.

The meeting proposal is part of a 'bigger' process.

Just ranting at CH will not open the club's mind, it will close it.

 

Public meetings have not worked in the past. When was the last public meeting that CH had regarding Oldham Rugby.

 

You have suggested an agenda not set it.

 

He owns the club lock stock and barrel and he will determine what information he gives or how he answers questions.

 

Answering to a small number of people he can control it to a large number in a properly chaired meeting he would not be able to do that.

 

He has never given information to any of the previous directors all of whom had a financial interest in the club so I cannot see a small number of supporters having any more success.

 

I am not having a rant at CH just stating facts based on his tenure as a director ( and at times the only one ) of the club).

 

What we need to know is who the club owes money to.

 

What part of them constitute directors loans and are they any due to previous directors.

 

Are there any outstanding HMRC debts ( as he is an accountant he should ring fence these. )

 

Why don't you ask all the fans to email you with a question they would like information on and prepare your discussions accordingly.

 

That way you address every ones concerns

 

As I say I wish you the best of luck and hope you do get the information you and the fans are asking for.

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

Harry why dont you ask all the fans to email you and you can spend days going through everything.

You have had years to do the stuff you are now asking me to do. I'm more than happy with the approach I have made and I have already considered all the points you've made.

If you want to do something over and above what I have done, please go ahead, but making further demands will either close his mind or it will divide those who want change, which is probably what CH wants. So my advice is, don't attempt to hijack or change our approach, at least until we see what results it bears.

If we require escalation after this meeting, we'll do it. But you don't declare war at first contact.

I assure you we intend to ask every question you have listed and many more besides. Either he'll answer them or he won't, the number of people present won't change that. And there are so many questions/issues that we won't get through them all at one meeting anyway.

And why do you assume he will control or dominate those who will attend the meeting?

[fiftiesremembered]

Excellent post.As you say, one thing at a time.Chris has responded so go ahead  as you have laid out - and all good wishes.

[andykenny]

Public meetings have not worked in the past. When was the last public meeting that CH had regarding Oldham Rugby.

You have suggested an agenda not set it.

He owns the club lock stock and barrel and he will determine what information he gives or how he answers questions.

Answering to a small number of people he can control it to a large number in a properly chaired meeting he would not be able to do that.

He has never given information to any of the previous directors all of whom had a financial interest in the club so I cannot see a small number of supporters having any more success.

I am not having a rant at CH just stating facts based on his tenure as a director ( and at times the only one ) of the club).

What we need to know is who the club owes money to.

What part of them constitute directors loans and are they any due to previous directors.

Are there any outstanding HMRC debts ( as he is an accountant he should ring fence these. )

Why don't you ask all the fans to email you with a question they would like information on and prepare your discussions accordingly.

That way you address every ones concerns

As I say I wish you the best of luck and hope you do get the information you and the fans are asking for.

Harry there is not a right lot we can do about Hamiltons debts.Tubey has made enough points for us all to work out the situation. Lets assume that Hamilton will not want to discuss the debts anyway.The information to be gleaned is as to whether a supporters body can work with him.The idea that any contibution from the supporters body goes directly into paying debts is a non starter in my eyes.Said contributions should be for facilities only.

My view is that the idea of the supporters body working with Hamilton is a very remote possibility. His debts do not come into it .This meeting is something we have to go through.Hamilton if we are honest will be guarded as would I in his position.However the key question which is probably can Hamilton work with a supporters body will be answered, it's inevitable.

[Ex-scrumhalf]

I'll be brave and stick my head above the parapet (although too late to have any input on the letter, which is fine) and say Im sort of in camp 4. I am a great supporter of CH, and believe he truly has the best interests of the club at heart, but has to work with what he has at the current time.

 

If you could send me a darft of the letter that would be great, and much appreciated.

I kind of agree Outsider but I, on the other hand am not a CH supporter. However it seems to be true that without him, and others of course, we may not have had a team to follow but you cannot keep on saying that forever and I fully believe that he has done as much as he can and should now bow out gracefully.

I agree that you can only work with what you've got but CH doesn't work with what he has, or could have, does he? He has fans that he will not engage with, it is alleged that he has alienated sponsors and has allegedly turned away people who may have been prepared to work with him and even put money into the club. Rugby Oldham being one example. All things he could work with that are there in front of him but he won't. The attendances have fallen to a level that cannot sustain the club but I believe that if CH would only get involved with the fans many more would come back. I believe that 1000 is achievable but the club has to be put on a much more professional level.

He could, and should, have utilised all of these assets but for whatever reason he won't. It doesn't cost an arm and a leg to produce a quality website and keep it up to date. Ours is very poor. Surely if he only asked for someone with IT skills to help out for nothing there are enough people, possibly even retired people, with those skills who would help willingly. It doesn't cost anything to have an online shop or a proper outlet at the club to sell shirts. hats, scarves etc.and have them available on time All ways of engaging with the fans and bringing in revenue. He completely fails to give any information to the fans, even when direct questions are asked on this forum he ignores it, and don't tell me he doesn't read it. If he doesn't he is even worse than I thought. It would take nothing for him to reply to some of these posts and it would take nothing to organise a public meeting every couple of months where fans could go down to the clubhouse and ask him questions. He could make statements about certain aspects of the club and it could be a meeting where fans could also ask Scott Naylor question about  team issues etc, but none of this is ever going to happen under CH and it's things like this that keep people interested. It's like the Leigh Sports Village job that he is supposed to have taken on. We don't know if it's true because all we have are posters telling us that it has happened, but if it has why not tell the fans and explain why. We would all feel much better about it if he would explain the reasoning and tell us that he does not intend that it should detract from his role at Oldham. He must surely know that the fans are upset and worried about this development but he buries his head in the sand and ignores it. Why can't he keep the fans informed about all these things and what's happening with Whitebank? People would feel much happier if they were fully informed.

I think the letter and meeting with CH is an excellent move forward but I already have some doubts because he has said that some aspects must remain confidential, so we are not going to be given any information regarding the club's finances are we?

However I think he has here a golden opportunity to save face and either agree to back away or allow a supporters trust to work alongside him. With that in mind I seriously hope that Rugby Oldham would be part of that.

Here's hoping that the meeting will take place soon and that something really good will come out of it, but with CHs past record I'm not holding my breath, but I can dream can't I?

[SINGE]

 

Public meetings have not worked in the past. When was the last public meeting that CH had regarding Oldham Rugby.

You have suggested an agenda not set it.

He owns the club lock stock and barrel and he will determine what information he gives or how he answers questions.

Answering to a small number of people he can control it to a large number in a properly chaired meeting he would not be able to do that.

He has never given information to any of the previous directors all of whom had a financial interest in the club so I cannot see a small number of supporters having any more success.

I am not having a rant at CH just stating facts based on his tenure as a director ( and at times the only one ) of the club).

What we need to know is who the club owes money to.

What part of them constitute directors loans and are they any due to previous directors.

Are there any outstanding HMRC debts ( as he is an accountant he should ring fence these. )

Why don't you ask all the fans to email you with a question they would like information on and prepare your discussions accordingly.

That way you address every ones concerns

As I say I wish you the best of luck and hope you do get the information you and the fans are asking for.

THe problem is Harry, you will never get CH within a country mile of a big meeting, properly chaired or not.

The fact is he has opened the door to a small group. This really is a monumentous step by CH and the opportunity must not be lost. The only way he, or most people truth be told, would agree is by taking small steps and moving steadily forward until agreement can be reached.

We ( even CH) share the same desired outcome, so if it takes a little longer to get there so be it.

He's not going to spill the beans at the first meeting, that will be about building trust.

He's going to give snippets, possibly even somethings that are false, to see what leaks out, to see how much trust he can place in the Fantastic Four.

You cannot failed to be pleased that he has repsonded so positively and so quickly. This way might just work best for everyone.

[eclecticsheep]

Hes made the offer and we are going to take it up and report back on here, lets have the meeting first and in a way keep our powder dry and trust that HOTB has put the right questions in the right manner to enable us to reach a conclusion from what is said on the day

[OutsiderLookingIn]

To be fair to CH, ORLFC is CH's business/livelihood....for instance...if someone came up to you, that you didnt know from Adam (or Eve!) and demanded to know how much you earned, what you spent your wages on, what you spent your income on, what time you started, what time you finished, how long did you take for personal breaks in the loo, how long was your dinner hour, how much your profit and loss was, if you were making ends meet, did you need a 2nd job in order to pay your mortgage, and if so, why, and where was it, and which one had the most priority and paid the most/least, you would either

a) tell them to sling their nosy arsed hook, 

B )lamp them one

or c) tell them it was none of their business!

 

Yes I KNOW that its a town team, and that you pay your money to come to matches and want value for money, but its the same in any business, you pay your money for goods/services, and if its not up to scratch you dont use them again.....but you certainly arent ENTITLED to know the ins and outs of a ducks behind, just because you feel aggrieved that the ground isnt up to scratch.

 

I agree that it is frustrating that CH cant/wont engage with people, but apart from pigheadedness and a dislike of people (or whatever reasons people cite that he wont talk to people) there could be other reasons such as male pride (and dont tell me all you guys out there, have never ever had a misplaced dollop of male pride!!), embarrassment, or even just the fact that he is a private person, who likes to conduct himself in such a way as to play all of his cards close to his chest.....not everyone is in your face/larger than life or an over sharer....even the big CH himself.

 

if he does read this forum, the poor guy either needs a skin like a rhino, and the hide of the devil and the brass neck of a ....brass necked thing, or he needs weeks of therapy, or sobbing in a darkened room.....either way....he is a man....with feelings, just like you all, and whatever you all say, it would, I am sure, grind on the majority of you, to read  constant negativity about yourself on a daily basis, with no-one giving you (or CH) the faintest bit of positivity.

 

I think the meeting is a great idea, and I for one am very pleased that he didnt ignore you, nor ask his office manager to give you the brush off, and not even bother to answer you himself. Its a very positive step forward, that he has agreed to consider a meeting, and one that you should feel proud and hopeful for at the very least initiating.

 

I hope that the meeting is a positive one, and that you get answers to some of your questions.....remembering that you yourselves would be loathe to chat to strangers about the ins and outs of your wallet, and whether you had to eat smart price soup for a week so you could pay your coaches wages.

 

I think having representatives from each category for fan/forum user is a good idea, and keeping it small is also good....as going mob handed with flaming pitchforks, would only serve to prove to CH that he was right to shun public meetings.

 

You are all adults, and from the eloquent way each of you post on here with passion and concern, one would assume, gentlemen too.....so hopefully you can have a calm, positive meeting whereby everyone comes away feeling happy/happier and not like they have been stamped on, chewed up and spit out and ignored.

 

remember you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

 

As I said, I would appreciate a copy of the draft letter, so I know that points representing my category are, or will be included in the meeting, as you are, after all the voice of many, including mine.

 

thanks for reading

 

*gets down off soapbox*

[HARRYRUBY]

Harry why dont you ask all the fans to email you and you can spend days going through everything.

You have had years to do the stuff you are now asking me to do. I'm more than happy with the approach I have made and I have already considered all the points you've made.

If you want to do something over and above what I have done, please go ahead, but making further demands will either close his mind or it will divide those who want change, which is probably what CH wants. So my advice is, don't attempt to hijack or change our approach, at least until we see what results it bears.

If we require escalation after this meeting, we'll do it. But you don't declare war at first contact.

I assure you we intend to ask every question you have listed and many more besides. Either he'll answer them or he won't, the number of people present won't change that. And there are so many questions/issues that we won't get through them all at one meeting anyway.

And why do you assume he will control or dominate those who will attend the meeting?

 

The email suggestion was an idea to get questions to ask that you or the other four people may not have thought about.

 

What you mean by saying that I have had years to do the stuff we are asking you to do  means  I don't know. Can you explain.

 

I am quite happy that someone is doing something to try and arrange a meeting with CH and I don't expect you will get all the information you want at the first meeting as that may take many meetings if he CH agrees to hold them.

 

On your last point why do I assume he will try to control or dominate those who attend the meeting is because someone in his position will hold all the aces and so will dominate the high ground.

 

I am not suggesting you  declare war the first instance or at any time. 

 

As I said from the outset I wish you all the best and I hope you get the answers to all your questions.

[SINGE]

Hes made the offer and we are going to take it up and report back on here, lets have the meeting first and in a way keep our powder dry and trust that HOTB has put the right questions in the right manner to enable us to reach a conclusion from what is said on the day

Fingers, everything crossed.

[TOSH1960]

I'm in a similar place as Outsiderlookingin. I'm a supporter of Chris because he has done his best to keep Pro Rugby in Oldham and i truly believe that without him, we wouldn't have a pro team. I also agree he could relate to fans and media better. But if people want to just sideline him after all he has done for the club. I will walk away after being a supporter for all of my 54 years. Yes i attended in my mums womb! Literally. The club is more important than individuals but this guy has put the rest of his life on hold!

[andykenny]

Hamilton will dominate nothing because there is nothing to dominate.He acknowledged months ago that he needs help .Here comes his chance.How can it be possible to dominate with debt and what anyone with a business sense would call a very risky investment. What is the alternative?

[andykenny]

Hamilton will dominate nothing because there is nothing to dominate.He acknowledged months ago that he needs help .Here comes his chance.How can it be possible to dominate with debt and what anyone with a business sense would call a very risky investment. What is the alternative?

[HomeOfTheTubularBandage]

I personally think it's very dangerous to say Hamilton must go. I think it's equally dangerous to say Hamilton must stay.

CH has undoubtedly gained huge experience, insight and contacts in the last 18 years. And no one believes he started this venture with anything other than the best intentions. It also seems he has a strong relationship with the coaching staff. Plus, if he is the club's major creditor as well as being owner/director, then it is difficult to oust him completely, without a big payoff - which no one is going to give him.

But it's also true, whether CH's supporters admit it or not, that there are hundreds of Oldham Rugby fans who will not engage with the club while he remains in charge AND several important stakeholders/potential funders who simply will not do business with him anymore. So his presence as the figurehead if the club massively limits the development of the club.

For people to believe there has been a major change, they have to see it. And this club needs major transformational change. My view is that CH will have to be prepared to make a significant change to his role if THIS club is to be saved.

In terms of finances. No one wants to know what CH spends on this and that. His personal finances are his own affair.

But the club should post annual financial reports that show what the club's debts are, who they are owed to and what the repayment structure is. What the club's revenue is, what the revenue sources are. What the operating costs/budget are and what the budget areas are. It should show the club's capital holdings and cash assets plus their appreciation/depreciation. And as part of operating costs it should show salaries of senior staff and directors. And finally the total AND annual surplus or deficit (profit and loss) - revenue & capital gains against expenditure and debt.

A Supporters Trust I am sure, would report these, as it has a constitutional and legal duty to its members to do so.

[eclecticsheep]

And if he actually did that ( to move the club forward to lets say "a five year Plan"...good idea by the way), We would also have a responsibility NOT to Harangue/I told you so/denigrate the man as a result ...If he had the courage to spread all the cards, warts and all on the table we diplomatically work on the grounds for rebuilding...and drop our swords!