Anyone who has school age kids will love this guy

[Robin Evans]

It depends if you consider those rules reported by the government department to be unfair. I guess the chap on the IoW did hence his succesful challenge....

[Northern Eel]

It depends if you consider those rules reported by the government department to be unfair. I guess the chap on the IoW did hence his succesful challenge....

I am pretty sure that some similar challenges will be dismissed by other judges in time to come. He's a lucky man I think.

[Saintslass]

It depends if you consider those rules reported by the government department to be unfair. I guess the chap on the IoW did hence his succesful challenge....

The success of his challenge didn't rest on a question of unfairness; it was that the law was too vague. 

[Northern Eel]

Well cost for many = availability/ opportunity so semantics aside their discretion also seems not to acknowledge opportunity? And in this small selection of contributors,  see comment 58 by Kier, there seems evidence of a zero tolerance approach that goes against all reasonable judgement.

Yes, and in this instance there is another subtle issue that you miss. There is not an automatic link between an unauthorised holiday and a fine. You know that, don't you?

Heads have no discretion over the authorisation, but can choose not to request that the LA issue a fixed penalty notice.

[Robin Evans]

The success of his challenge didn't rest on a question of unfairness; it was that the law was too vague.

I don't think that's how the chap on the IoW saw it.

[C H Calthrop]

Yes, and in this instance there is another subtle issue that you miss. There is not an automatic link between an unauthorised holiday and a fine. You know that, don't you?

Heads have no discretion over the authorisation, but can choose not to request that the LA issue a fixed penalty notice.

I'm missing nothing here. Whatever discretion, whatever subtlety, whatever punitive action  may or may not occur the schools are being equipped to look after their own interests, not the childrens, their own. Now you can see that can't you? 

[Northern Eel]

I'm missing nothing here. Whatever discretion, whatever subtlety, whatever punitive action may or may not occur the schools are being equipped to look after their own interests, not the childrens, their own. Now you can see that can't you?

I can see what you are suggesting, yes, but I don't agree. (And I'm waiting for your response as to what you would and wouldn't authorise and the rationale behind this, seen as though it all appears so cut and dry for you - but be careful, black and white can't have discretion, subtlety or semantics)

In looking after the interests of the children, I could decide not to issue a fixed penalty notice, but that would not stop the absence being unauthorised. The school register is a legal document. How many legal documents do you fabricate in your job? The families would get their special holiday irrespective and I've not broken the law in the process.

[C H Calthrop]

I don't have to be careful it is a very simple issue if the child and parents are doing something of importance and value when weighed against however many hours of lost "education" then they go with best wishes. No fabrication is required. 

[Northern Eel]

I don't have to be careful it is a very simple issue if the child and parents are doing something of importance and value when weighed against however many hours of lost "education" then they go with best wishes. No fabrication is required.

If only it was so simple in reality. So, you'd authorise all holiday requests during term time, including multiple requests from the same family, whilst allowing them to determine (without question) the educational advantages for themselves? Grand idea. Can't see how that will be abused.

I can see that my view from the inside is different from yours. That's fine.

I'm off to bed now. Long week ahead, as I've decided it's beneficial to me to nip off for a cheap term-time holiday that will make me exponentially happier on my return. I will catch up when I get back, but I'll have to ask everyone to prioritise me until I've caught up, to the detriment of those who would have benefitted from their time. Ah well, I will have a smile on my face. The conditions I accepted when selecting my school don't allow that, but stuff it, I'm a modern man. There'll be reams of Penalty Notices to shred once I've seen the light and nobody will even know I've been gone. If I don't get my own way, I will just go self-employed. I'd probably be better at doing something I've never trained to do. How did I not work this out for myself? Cheers.

[gingerjon]

I don't think that's how the chap on the IoW saw it.

Then he didn't read the judgement.

[Robin Evans]

Maybe not John.... but his verbiage indicated he thought the school's position was unfair and argued he knew what was best for his kids.... successfully it appears....

[gingerjon]

Maybe not John.... but his verbiage indicated he thought the school's position was unfair and argued he knew what was best for his kids.... successfully it appears....

 

That's not what he argued - or at least that's not what his side argued in court.  His side's argument was that there was no definition of reasonable attendance and that, additionally, IoW council had claimed the absence made his daughter's time away from school excessive but failed to include the detail to back up that case (an earlier holiday taken with the ex-wife).  So his legal argument was to do with inadequate wording of the law and procedural failure from the council.  Oddly, he didn't 'win' because he could show that the holiday was of greater educational merit than education.

[Bleep1673]

The NHS has a absence score, for staff, called the "Bradford Chart", if we applied something similar to child absence, parents might be happier?

[C H Calthrop]

If only it was so simple in reality. So, you'd authorise all holiday requests during term time, including multiple requests from the same family, whilst allowing them to determine (without question) the educational advantages for themselves? Grand idea. Can't see how that will be abused.

I can see that my view from the inside is different from yours. That's fine.

I'm off to bed now. Long week ahead, as I've decided it's beneficial to me to nip off for a cheap term-time holiday that will make me exponentially happier on my return. I will catch up when I get back, but I'll have to ask everyone to prioritise me until I've caught up, to the detriment of those who would have benefitted from their time. Ah well, I will have a smile on my face. The conditions I accepted when selecting my school don't allow that, but stuff it, I'm a modern man. There'll be reams of Penalty Notices to shred once I've seen the light and nobody will even know I've been gone. If I don't get my own way, I will just go self-employed. I'd probably be better at doing something I've never trained to do. How did I not work this out for myself? Cheers.

Would I, is that what I'd do. Good grief what an over reaction. Its no wonder this issue is problematic with that sort of fantasy tempest of woe brooding under every working families request to get on with their life rather than adhere rigidly to a schools Victorian requirements. 

[Northern Eel]

Would I, is that what I'd do. Good grief what an over reaction. Its no wonder this issue is problematic with that sort of fantasy tempest of woe brooding under every working families request to get on with their life rather than adhere rigidly to a schools Victorian requirements.

Oh dear. I'd say your inability to decipher sarcasm is perhaps hindering your response. You haven't actually answered any of the questions I've posed, so it's difficult to understand what on earth you are trying to promote. You do have a view on what you would and wouldn't authorise, don't you? We're waiting... I'm sure the rationale will be clear and measured.

Your lack of any answers to the direct questions I have posed can only lead the rest of us, currently, to suspect that your opinion is fantastical, not mine. But feel free to answer the questions I have posed, which are, unfortunately, the reality, rather than the supposition.

Careful not to be overly dramatic, as that wouldn't be good, would it?

[Northern Eel]

Oh, and I'm a proud member of an incredibly dedicated working class family. I take no pleasure in the dictats of the DfE and central government on this issue, but I take great pride in upholding the law of the land.

If you feel that such positive life values are worthless, then I pity you. I go above and beyond to find ways of NOT fining families for unauthorised absences.

[C H Calthrop]

Oh dear. I'd say your inability to decipher sarcasm is perhaps hindering your response. You haven't actually answered any of the questions I've posed, so it's difficult to understand what on earth you are trying to promote. You do have a view on what you would and wouldn't authorise, don't you? We're waiting... I'm sure the rationale will be clear and measured.

Your lack of any answers to the direct questions I have posed can only lead the rest of us, currently, to suspect that your opinion is fantastical, not mine. But feel free to answer the questions I have posed, which are, unfortunately, the reality, rather than the supposition.

Careful not to be overly dramatic, as that wouldn't be good, would it?

Sardonic not sarcastic. And I answered the direct question in  post 83. And I don't consider aggrandising however many days of a childs education over a beneficial life experience a positive life value especially when under current practice there are ways to reduce any confrontation. And I'm not particularly bothered about your experiences there are plenty of accounts of what appears a no tolerance approach is in place, must save on paperwork. And don't waste your pity, a family first approach in no less a positive value.

[Northern Eel]

Sardonic not sarcastic. And I answered the direct question in  post 83. And I don't consider aggrandising however many days of a childs education over a beneficial life experience a positive life value especially when under current practice there are ways to reduce any confrontation. And I'm not particularly bothered about your experiences there are plenty of accounts of what appears a no tolerance approach is in place, must save on paperwork. And don't waste your pity, a family first approach in no less a positive value.

I don't need to say anything else. You've done it for me.