Boxing

[Maximus Decimus]

We saw the press conference this week of Wilder-Fury 2 and the whole thing was a little underwhelming especially from Fury's side. Dare I say it, I think he lost the press conference. 

In the days after the first fight, it seemed likely that any rematch would favour Fury more as he'd not long come back. However, although being slight favourite, I would say most boxing pundits favour Wilder in the rematch. There doesn't seem to be the same confidence coming from Fury this time.

I've not heard much made of how the knockdown could've affected Fury. We all heard about how traumatised AJ might be, but Fury might also be bothered by getting in with a man he knows can hurt him like that. Wilder on the other hand knows he can hurt him like that and that Fury was fortunate to continue.

Wilder is a frustrating example of mismanagement. He's 34 so only has a couple of years left but still has a poor record. If he retires after beating Fury, he won't go down as a great once the dust settles because of the reality of his resume. However, it has become clear over the last couple of years that his power more than makes up for his lack of ringcraft. I feel like they've come to this conclusion too late.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love nothing more than Fury to KO him in 2 rounds but I highly doubt it and suspect were the big 3 to all fight each other, he'd be most likely to come out on top.

 

[DavidM]

I’m  slightly surprised Fury is a shade of odds on ,  because you just get the feeling he can be out boxing Wilder all night long but get his top set taken out any second and that will be that . I honestly can’t wait as it’s such a fascinating match up .. the archetypal boxer versus the archetypal out n out banger . Who will prevail ? Hopefully Tyson , you wouldn’t be surprised ... but on the other hand one punch and twelve rounds to land it ... Tyson holds all the technical cards , Wilder the power cards. Tyson gets to the end - he wins 

Edited January 18, 2020 by DavidM

[Maximus Decimus]

On 18/01/2020 at 18:49, DavidM said:

I’m  slightly surprised Fury is a shade of odds on ,  because you just get the feeling he can be out boxing Wilder all night long but get his top set taken out any second and that will be that . I honestly can’t wait as it’s such a fascinating match up .. the archetypal boxer versus the archetypal out n out banger . Who will prevail ? Hopefully Tyson , you wouldn’t be surprised ... but on the other hand one punch and twelve rounds to land it ... Tyson holds all the technical cards , Wilder the power cards. Tyson gets to the end - he wins 

One week out from the fight, I'd say Wilder has the momentum. Odds have moved from Fury being favourite to it being dead even.

I'm a bit baffled (and concerned) by Fury's approach. I thought a part of his success was how he got under Wilder's skin in the build up but if anything Wilder has been winning and seems much more confident. I've recently read his autobiography and he's not as cocksure as he makes out. I wonder if the knockdowns are having an effect on him. 

I was listening to Freddie Roach who was pointing out that there are a few things Fury does every time that are very timeable. Wilder's team will have inevitably looked at these; I think in the first fight Wilder thought he'd get an easy knock out, this time he'll be much better prepared. 

I'm putting the house on Wilder as you can tell! 

[DavidM]

6 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

One week out from the fight, I'd say Wilder has the momentum. Odds have moved from Fury being favourite to it being dead even.

I'm a bit baffled (and concerned) by Fury's approach. I thought a part of his success was how he got under Wilder's skin in the build up but if anything Wilder has been winning and seems much more confident. I've recently read his autobiography and he's not as cocksure as he makes out. I wonder if the knockdowns are having an effect on him. 

I was listening to Freddie Roach who was pointing out that there are a few things Fury does every time that are very timeable. Wilder's team will have inevitably looked at these; I think in the first fight Wilder thought he'd get an easy knock out, this time he'll be much better prepared. 

I'm putting the house on Wilder as you can tell! 

What do you think about tyson publicly saying he’s going for a knockout as he won’t win a decision ? I watched the ESPN round table with him and none of them ( Joe Goossen , Shawn Porter and Andre Ward ) could fathom it . Bluff , double bluff... I can’t believe it personally 

[Gerrumonside ref]

Fury to dominate the fight until Wilder finally lands with power.

Question is can Fury get up again off the canvas for a second time?

Be interesting to see if Fury’s abrupt change of trainer affects his camp.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Gerrumonside ref

[Maximus Decimus]

1 hour ago, DavidM said:

What do you think about tyson publicly saying he’s going for a knockout as he won’t win a decision ? I watched the ESPN round table with him and none of them ( Joe Goossen , Shawn Porter and Andre Ward ) could fathom it . Bluff , double bluff... I can’t believe it personally 

Yeh I think it's largely nonsense, especially the two round talk. I don't doubt that he believes he can knock him out and he obviously can, but I doubt very much that that will be the game plan or at least I hope it isn't. That said, Freddie Roach thought he should have gone in for the kill in the last fight.

[Maximus Decimus]

22 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Fury to dominate the fight until Wilder finally lands with power.

Question is can Fury get up again off the canvas for a second time?

Be interesting to see if Fury’s abrupt change of trainer affects his camp.

I'm interested in how things have changed since the last fight happened. In theory Fury should be a pretty big favourite: he went into the last fight almost raw after 3 years out of the ring and having lost 10 stone. It took WIlder 12 rounds to properly catch him, and a better prepared Fury with another 15 months of steady training should be even more able to outbox him.

However, over the last few months there has been a slow move towards Wilder and a reevaluation of the first fight. Rather than the narrative of a 60% Fury still being too much for an unskilled Wilder, there has been a move towards seeing it as Wilder who was the less prepared of the two and who will be better this time around. The reality of the fact that he did basically knock him out and the fact that he only has to catch him once has done something to change the mood.

Both of their previous fights have been part of it. Despite being outboxed, there was something more calm and assured about Wilder in his defeat of Ortiz. The reckless frustrated Wilder that Fury was able to take advantage of wasn't there. Fury in contrast was very catchable by Wallin. 

I'd love Fury to win, and I still think Wilder is playing with fire by waiting to knock all his opponents out but I think Wilder wins next week and it might be earlier than many people anticipate.

 

 

[Gerrumonside ref]

@Maximus Decimus

My view on Wilder down the years is that he’s content enough to lose rounds and even survive at times, as long as he believes he can eventually land his big shot.  I actually think in many ways he doesn’t get enough credit for his heart in that sense, as well as his obvious finishing prowess.

As for Fury, his best performances have been disciplined where he has taken a potentially dangerous opponent like Klitschko and solidly (if unspectacularly) outworked him and tied him up on the inside.

I actually believe fatigue and stamina will be the keys to this fight, particularly for Fury.  He will need to do enough to win the rounds using his superior boxing skills and control to build a healthy points lead.  If he doesn’t leave enough in the tank though for the second half of the fight then Wilder’s threat grows for me because of his great conditioning and ability to dial up his power even late in the contest.

Maybe there’ll be a surprise in terms of strategy for both men as you suggest.  

 

[Maximus Decimus]

9 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

@Maximus Decimus

My view on Wilder down the years is that he’s content enough to lose rounds and even survive at times, as long as he believes he can eventually land his big shot.  I actually think in many ways he doesn’t get enough credit for his heart in that sense, as well as his obvious finishing prowess.

As for Fury, his best performances have been disciplined where he has taken a potentially dangerous opponent like Klitschko and solidly (if unspectacularly) outworked him and tied him up on the inside.

I actually believe fatigue and stamina will be the keys to this fight, particularly for Fury.  He will need to do enough to win the rounds using his superior boxing skills and control to build a healthy points lead.  If he doesn’t leave enough in the tank though for the second half of the fight then Wilder’s threat grows for me because of his great conditioning and ability to dial up his power even late in the contest.

Maybe there’ll be a surprise in terms of strategy for both men as you suggest.  

 

There've been some great things put out by BT in the build up to the fight, and the general consensus is that Wilder is actually a much better boxer than he gets credit for. David Haye's analysis has been good as somebody who sparred with him many times.

I do think that his strategy of losing rounds until he knocks them out is a disaster waiting to happen though. Eventually, he's either going to have an off night and not be able to catch someone (Fury in the first night if he'd been more cautious) or he's going to get caught by a decent puncher like he did against Ortiz.

I'm not a big fan of Wilder on a personal level and he's now talking about himself as comparable to Muhammad Ali, I just hope he gets exposed before he can retire and claim he was the greatest. I can already see a subtle ignoring of the fact that his resume is still pretty poor. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

@Maximus Decimus

I don’t think there’s any danger of Wilder being declared the greatest of all time at the end of his career.  I believe his invoking of Ali is a PPV sales strategy aimed at an American public that have been lukewarm in their general reception of him through the years.

I do believe that BT are doing a good job of bringing us more in depth analysis of the two fighters than is generally seen in this country and in particular on Sky who like to build up fights differently.  I’d much prefer to see a technical breakdown/analysis than seeing boxers throw tables at each other or engage in wrestling style tactics.

Is Wilder a better boxer than the public perception?  Probably.  Although I believe he is starting from a low base in terms of reputation and his body of work has seen him consistently fail to control opponents in fights of any distance.  

Edit:  Sorry, keep ballsing up the quote function

Edited February 16, 2020 by Gerrumonside ref

[Maximus Decimus]

So both fighters have come in much heavier than the first fight. Tyson is nudging 20 stone which seems crazy, although as with the Ruiz fight there is speculation that he might be playing mind games.

It feels a bit like the Hatton-Pacquiao fight for me this one: he'd gone away, got a new trainer with new methods and ultimately got embarrassed. I'm also concerned by how calm Wilder seems, he was clearly tense last time and it showed in fight week. 

[DavidM]

32 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

So both fighters have come in much heavier than the first fight. Tyson is nudging 20 stone which seems crazy, although as with the Ruiz fight there is speculation that he might be playing mind games.

It feels a bit like the Hatton-Pacquiao fight for me this one: he'd gone away, got a new trainer with new methods and ultimately got embarrassed. I'm also concerned by how calm Wilder seems, he was clearly tense last time and it showed in fight week. 

Wilder is much heavier but I wouldn’t have known it on the scales , he looked pretty awesome . It does worry me when a fighter doesn’t take his T off , and I didn’t like that in tyson . I hope he knows what he’s doing and is in top shape , I thought that was surprisingly heavy tbh . His face looks good so I’ll give him the benefit . But 12 rounds of boxing could be tougher this time . I worry if his strategy is the exact opposite and he’s bulked to go toe to toe 

Edited February 22, 2020 by DavidM

[Maximus Decimus]

4 hours ago, DavidM said:

Wilder is much heavier but I wouldn’t have known it on the scales , he looked pretty awesome . It does worry me when a fighter doesn’t take his T off , and I didn’t like that in tyson . I hope he knows what he’s doing and is in top shape , I thought that was surprisingly heavy tbh . His face looks good so I’ll give him the benefit . But 12 rounds of boxing could be tougher this time . I worry if his strategy is the exact opposite and he’s bulked to go toe to toe 

Yeh Wilder looked good for it. Much of the analysis from Haye especially, has swayed me to thinking he'll win relatively easily. There is quite a lot Wilder can do to improve and I think the cut will be crucial.

It is that I suspect that has led to the change in approach of Fury. One of the problems of being undefeated is that you can think you're some sort of a genius who can do no wrong. Fury thinks he won in 2018 despite everyone saying he shouldn't take the fight and his own father thinking it was so crazy he didn't talk to him for 9 weeks.

With someone like Tyson, I wonder whether he really is going to try and KO him because he's thinking of doing the impossible again. The problem with that is that eventually you'll do something that was just a bad decision.

I suspect it might be tonight. I just hope he gives a good enough account of himself to justify a rematch and isn't sparked out in 1 round. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

What time are the ringwalks?

[DavidM]

Half four , quarter to five ish

[Gerrumonside ref]

2 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

Yeh Wilder looked good for it. Much of the analysis from Haye especially, has swayed me to thinking he'll win relatively easily. There is quite a lot Wilder can do to improve and I think the cut will be crucial.

It is that I suspect that has led to the change in approach of Fury. One of the problems of being undefeated is that you can think you're some sort of a genius who can do no wrong. Fury thinks he won in 2018 despite everyone saying he shouldn't take the fight and his own father thinking it was so crazy he didn't talk to him for 9 weeks.

With someone like Tyson, I wonder whether he really is going to try and KO him because he's thinking of doing the impossible again. The problem with that is that eventually you'll do something that was just a bad decision.

I suspect it might be tonight. I just hope he gives a good enough account of himself to justify a rematch and isn't sparked out in 1 round. 

I’m starting to change my mind on the likely way this fight will unfold now that I’ve seen the weigh in.

I’m coming around reluctantly to the idea that Fury is going to box the wrong kind of fight under his new trainer with not enough conditioning to change course.

I hope I’m wrong as I’d like to see a value for money PPV with a mix of boxing skill plus a little bit of a tear up.

Instead I fear a short fight (like Maximus has been suggesting all week) not going beyond the mid rounds with Fury being stopped by Wilder.

Stuck a tenner on Wilder rounds 1-3 at 9/1 to soften the blow.

 

[Gerrumonside ref]

Tyson Fury boxes a brilliant fight and wins the world title!

Wilder’s corner throw in the towel In the 7th with him taking a lot of punishment round after round.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Well, just reading through these comments and none of you got even close, other than suggesting the extra weight Fury had put on suggested he might go toe-to-toe.

Fury was on to from the very first bell, sprinting practically to take the centre of the ring. Wilder was all over the place from the get go, and after the ear injury it was never going to be his night.

Not sure if Wilder will want a rematch!

[Gerrumonside ref]

17 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Well, just reading through these comments and none of you got even close, other than suggesting the extra weight Fury had put on suggested he might go toe-to-toe.

Fury was on to from the very first bell, sprinting practically to take the centre of the ring. Wilder was all over the place from the get go, and after the ear injury it was never going to be his night.

Not sure if Wilder will want a rematch!

Yes, think very few believed Fury would win in the manner that he won.

Obviously the big question is Fury-Joshua and who would win that fight.

Personally I’m delighted that we’ve got the ultimate “Battle of Britain” and that all the belts are now in our possession at this level.

Edit: Just listening to Fury’s interview with BT and he’s talking about the contractural third fight with Wilder in the new Las Vegas Raiders American Football stadium.

Edited February 23, 2020 by Gerrumonside ref

[DavidM]

Wow , remind me never to doubt Tyson again . That was as near to physical assault in a ring as you’ll get , he completely battered him to pieces . Wilder looked like he could barely stand up after 4 rounds . Take away the punch and he had absolutely nothing , and just stood there taking it 

[Maximus Decimus]

3 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Well, just reading through these comments and none of you got even close, other than suggesting the extra weight Fury had put on suggested he might go toe-to-toe.

Fury was on to from the very first bell, sprinting practically to take the centre of the ring. Wilder was all over the place from the get go, and after the ear injury it was never going to be his night.

Not sure if Wilder will want a rematch!

As someone who described betting on a Wilder KO as 'buying money' I'm very happy to have been proven wrong last night.

He dominated from start to finish and exposed Wilder's flaws pretty badly. It's not just the win but the manner of the win that will cement Fury's standing for years to come. He didn't only dethrone another champion in his own back yard, he did it by reinventing himself in a manner that pretty much everyone thought was suicidal. 

[Bob8]

3 hours ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

Yes, think very few believed Fury would win in the manner that he won.

Obviously the big question is Fury-Joshua and who would win that fight.

Personally I’m delighted that we’ve got the ultimate “Battle of Britain” and that all the belts are now in our possession at this level.

Edit: Just listening to Fury’s interview with BT and he’s talking about the contractural third fight with Wilder in the new Las Vegas Raiders American Football stadium.

Congratulations to Frank Bruno and the Guardian who both called it pretty well. Bruno even said that Fury would box Wilders ears off.

I had assumed that Joshua would improve over the last few years, but that does not seem to be the case. There is Oleksandr Usyk, who can box, but is much smaller and older.

[Bob8]

3 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Wow , remind me never to doubt Tyson again . That was as near to physical assault in a ring as you’ll get , he completely battered him to pieces . Wilder looked like he could barely stand up after 4 rounds . Take away the punch and he had absolutely nothing , and just stood there taking it 

I think it is fair to doubt him again. His ability is never in question (I am proud to say I was tipping him back in 2015). His dedication is clearly in question, he is already talking about how to finish his career and that is never a great sign.

[Maximus Decimus]

5 minutes ago, DavidM said:

Wow , remind me never to doubt Tyson again . That was as near to physical assault in a ring as you’ll get , he completely battered him to pieces . Wilder looked like he could barely stand up after 4 rounds . Take away the punch and he had absolutely nothing , and just stood there taking it 

I actually felt a bit sorry for him at the end. You can lose and it not affect your reputation too much but he lost in a way that proved all his doubters right. 

[DavidM]

Ref was a bit picky at times , jumping in lecturing them and at times keeping fury off wilder