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Harry Stottle

Leeds and Toronto lose in Qualifiers Round 4

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1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

Yes. It does. The structure allows clubs to invest in growth so that they can spread the game and have a plan further than whether or not the local decking salesman can fund them next season or not. Under P+R that investment would never have happened. Clubs would be fighting over pennies to sign the NFL equivalant of Jackson  Hastings.

You aren't better because you attend out of some Corinthian purity where as others attend for the event. To a bank your quid is indistinguishable from theirs

 

So thats a no then , it doesnt affect them [ there would always be 24/32 or whatever number it is to play over here ]

And a NO , they dont really care which teams it is

Cheerleaders ? , well that was just me being silly

Bottom line is using other sports from other countries and their structure as arguments against whatever structure we have is a nonsense , and the people using it know it as well

 

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9 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Same question , does the structure of the NFL affect the decision of the fans to attend an NFL game at wembley ?

Do those fans care which teams are playing ?

Are most of them there to perv at the cheerleaders ?

Setting aside the cheerleaders...

I suggest an analogy for the NFLs UK spectators is 20/20 cricket. Spectators at this bish bash instant cricket don't actually know anything about proper cricket and have no history of attending it. Likewise no one knows anything about serious about NFL who attend Wembley. 

It all down to the crack. A convenient excuse/opportunity for a day out. There is no heritage.  It's possible that the success of Toronto feeds into this same notion. 

.

 

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5 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Setting aside the cheerleaders...

I suggest an analogy for the NFLs UK spectators is 20/20 cricket. Spectators at this bish bash instant cricket don't actually know anything about proper cricket and have no history of attending it. Likewise no one knows anything about serious about NFL who attend Wembley. 

It all down to the crack. A convenient excuse/opportunity for a day out. There is no heritage.  It's possible that the success of Toronto feeds into this same notion. 

So RL has such a strong foundation that it can tell potentially new fans that they aren't worthy because they don't know enough. They should be criticised for having a good time without studying a 100 years of the sport's history. And why has the sport stagnated again?

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Does every thread have to end up talking about structures??? Can a thread not broadly stick to the original intended discussion??? If you want to talk about structures why not go on the 'structures' thread, or start a new one if there isn't one!

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4 hours ago, ojx said:

So RL has such a strong foundation that it can tell potentially new fans that they aren't worthy because they don't know enough. They should be criticised for having a good time without studying a 100 years of the sport's history. And why has the sport stagnated again?

Are you a mind reader... If so you have failed.

Where in my comment do I mention RL or criticise it or it's spectators. 

I was suggesting that NFL spectators at Wembely did not know much about the nuances of american football, but they still go ... a 60 minute game that takes 3 hours ... and still enjoy the novelty, the experience, the day out. 

I am advised by various media outlets that Toronto offer a good experience to their new spectators. They are being successful at it. I hope they sustain it.

BTW... in the event that a London team is added to the NFL, or is transplanted, there will be just 8 regular home games for it's supporters to endure.  This despite there being 32 teams. A new meaning to the phrase 'Super Eights'.

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You can't compare british-based sport to N.American, all their major leagues are closed-shop, no P/R involved. NFL fans sell out Wembley because it's a rare opportunity for UK fans to see a game in the flesh...and yes, 99+% of those who go will understand the structure of the NFL and the nuances of the game, as they're fans (and some will be players, there's still domestic leagues over here - I was one in my younger days prior to injury).

 

But anyway, back to RL, in the UK (mainly)....

Simplest for SL would be to have 2 down, then winner of division below plus winner of 2-5 playoff promoted...err...like it's been between Championship and League 1...simple & understood. For GF playoffs - 1v4 and 2v3. Simple, understood by probably 99+% of UK sports fans., and therefore more likely to pull in casual/new converts, etc 

 

Oh, and if that means expanding SL and Ch to 14 teams each with the rest in League 1, fine - 26+1 fixtures inc Magic/Bash . If it means evening out the funding in the Championship, fine. As a sport we seem to be very good at over-complicating things, which will never pull in more fans, players, officials, etc..

Edited by FearNothing

cru....Cru.....CRUSADERS!!!!!!

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1 hour ago, FearNothing said:

You can't compare british-based sport to N.American, all their major leagues are closed-shop, no P/R involved. NFL fans sell out Wembley because it's a rare opportunity for UK fans to see a game in the flesh...and yes, 99+% of those who go will understand the structure of the NFL and the nuances of the game, as they're fans (and some will be players, there's still domestic leagues over here - I was one in my younger days prior to injury).

 

But anyway, back to RL, in the UK (mainly)....

Simplest for SL would be to have 2 down, then winner of division below plus winner of 2-5 playoff promoted...err...like it's been between Championship and League 1...simple & understood. For GF playoffs - 1v4 and 2v3. Simple, understood by probably 99+% of UK sports fans., and therefore more likely to pull in casual/new converts, etc 

 

Oh, and if that means expanding SL and Ch to 14 teams each with the rest in League 1, fine - 26+1 fixtures inc Magic/Bash . If it means evening out the funding in the Championship, fine. As a sport we seem to be very good at over-complicating things, which will never pull in more fans, players, officials, etc..

simplest thing would be to leave things as they are because we have all got our heads around it now

Edited by southstand loiner

ah a sunday night in front of the telly watching old rugby league games.

does life get any better .

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4 minutes ago, southstand loiner said:

simplest thing would be to leave thing as they are because we have all got our heads around it now

...but we're the "insiders" who know what's going on...not "outsiders" we're trying to tempt into the sport ;)


cru....Cru.....CRUSADERS!!!!!!

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41 minutes ago, FearNothing said:

...but we're the "insiders" who know what's going on...not "outsiders" we're trying to tempt into the sport ;)

true but if thick northerners  like me can understand it then just what type of new support are we chasing . I took a friend from work  to a game recently and explained the workings of the 8s and he had grasped it all within 5 minutes and that's a bloke who took 3 weeks to understand a simple stock file at work . 

Edited by southstand loiner

ah a sunday night in front of the telly watching old rugby league games.

does life get any better .

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On 9/5/2018 at 8:27 AM, Harry Stottle said:

How good would that be to really ratchet up the interest and fascination for the rounds that follow, even better should they meet in the MPG, before I get jumped on as being some kind of heritic or dissident may I say that I subscribe to Sky, and I do so to be entertained, should this game take place I would really want to watch it, I would not travel to Leeds and definatley not to Canada to view it, next best thing on the TV, delicious.

Great post Mr Stottle. 

There's about 10/15 strange folk on here that have forgotten that this is precisely what sport is about. 

It's not clinical, soulless strategy and dull business. It's all about action on screen, drama on the terraces, the joy of winning and the despair of defeat.

That's why we pay our money.

Last weekend was a classic example. In the run up to the game, my head was saying don't go, it's a waste of money, we've only got 15 then 14 men. At 2pm Sunday emotion took over, I paid my 15 quid and was rewarded with one of the top 10 Fev performances of my life.

 

Edited by David Shepherd

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On ‎9‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 8:27 AM, Harry Stottle said:

How good would that be to really ratchet up the interest and fascination for the rounds that follow, even better should they meet in the MPG, before I get jumped on as being some kind of heritic or dissident may I say that I subscribe to Sky, and I do so to be entertained, should this game take place I would really want to watch it, I would not travel to Leeds and definatley not to Canada to view it, next best thing on the TV, delicious.

does it need to be this round when both teams lose . ok Salford beat Toronto that's half the story but if next week Salford beat Leeds then its at the same situation with the prospect of a Leeds v Toronto game in the final round  to decide which team goes into the million pound game .A  game that would be as full of drama as the million pound game itself . a real will the million pound game be a game played in England or Canada situation going into the final week . now that's drama if only to see if sky would pay for someone to fly to Canada to talk to the players before or after the game if its held in Canada or would they stay in the little bunker in England .

as for them meeting in the million pound game who do you see finishing in third position as I assume you have Salford and hull kr penciled in at 1 and 2 ?

Edited by southstand loiner

ah a sunday night in front of the telly watching old rugby league games.

does life get any better .

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6 hours ago, David Shepherd said:

Great post Mr Stottle. 

There's about 10/15 strange folk on here that have forgotten that this is precisely what sport is about. 

It's not clinical, soulless strategy and dull business. It's all about action on screen, drama on the terraces, the joy of winning and the despair of defeat.

That's why we pay our money.

Last weekend was a classic example. In the run up to the game, my head was saying don't go, it's a waste of money, we've only got 15 then 14 men. At 2pm Sunday emotion took over, I paid my 15 quid and was rewarded with one of the top 10 Fev performances of my life.

 

The wealthiest football league in the world  20 clubs) fights to finish in the top 4 - 7 and then raise cheers to even new riches. They cope with a plain vanilla relegation of 3.

Is there any need to complicate matters.  Plain vanilla 1 up 1 down.

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How did this morph into NRL v RFL? Totally different concepts. A rich owner can move a club 3000 miles away from its supporters. Young college players picked to play for the weakest teams, etc, etc.  Get back to the point. P and R or not?

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12 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

The wealthiest football league in the world  20 clubs) fights to finish in the top 4 - 7 and then raise cheers to even new riches. They cope with a plain vanilla relegation of 3.

Is there any need to complicate matters.  Plain vanilla 1 up 1 down.

While I like the 8s as a concept, I do recognise it's downsides, especially around ticket sales at short notice.

1 up 1 down doesn't give enough movement for me. 2 up 2 down would be ideal, but I'd settle for a play-off between 11th in SL and 2nd in Champ. Thus keeping The MPG, one of the few times we trend on social media, such is the drama and entertainment generated.

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10 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

While I like the 8s as a concept, I do recognise it's downsides, especially around ticket sales at short notice.

1 up 1 down doesn't give enough movement for me. 2 up 2 down would be ideal, but I'd settle for a play-off between 11th in SL and 2nd in Champ. Thus keeping The MPG, one of the few times we trend on social media, such is the drama and entertainment generated.

Even 1 up 1 down is too much jeopardy for me... And I am not really talking about the individual clubs, it's the game itself. In a league of 12 then 2 down is suicide. 

However... If the bottom of the league has to face relegation, then I suggest it has a 'second chance' and there should be a playoff between the bottom and the top 3 of the Championship.  Arguably if the 12th can't beat 3rd at home it cannot complain... But please, don't call it a million pound game.

If we want to expand the game then zero relegation is essential. And to create some expansion then some sort of merger, or some other sort of arrangement, between clubs has to take place.

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1 hour ago, Rupert Prince said:

Even 1 up 1 down is too much jeopardy for me... And I am not really talking about the individual clubs, it's the game itself. In a league of 12 then 2 down is suicide. 

However... If the bottom of the league has to face relegation, then I suggest it has a 'second chance' and there should be a playoff between the bottom and the top 3 of the Championship.  Arguably if the 12th can't beat 3rd at home it cannot complain... But please, don't call it a million pound game.

If we want to expand the game then zero relegation is essential. And to create some expansion then some sort of merger, or some other sort of arrangement, between clubs has to take place.

Nope, no second chances, this is sport.  It's cut throat and competitive. If there are no consequences for below par performance, all you achieve is mediocrity.  This is not JeremyCorbynball. Have you forgotten how dull and boring the 6 years of no relegation were?

It's impossible to expand the game without relegation.  How do those up and coming teams build a following as they march up the leagues? If there's no relegation then by definition, there's no promotion for these up and coming teams.  Where is the incentive to improve?

Mergers have a track record of failure.  Shuddersfield Giant Eagles?  Gateshull Thuindersharks? If you try and merge clubs, all you will achieve is a mass alienation of fans.  The sport cannot afford less fans.

Shall we agree to disagree?

Edited by David Shepherd
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On 06 September 2018 at 7:50 AM, scotchy1 said:

Had they had our structure Jacksonville wouldnt have spent the time and money and definitely wouldnt have given up a home game every year to build a following over here. They would have been too worried about relegation. The whole sport would have been consumed by simply staying alive.

So yes, the structure would effect the games over here. They wouldnt be playing them at all.

I didnt ask wether it would have affected the game being played here , I asked if the people who attend these games CARE what structure they have in the NFL ? , I'd suggest not

So using the fact that 60 odd thousand are willing to cough up 60 quid each to watch it has no relevance to RL in this country

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23 hours ago, FearNothing said:

You can't compare british-based sport to N.American, all their major leagues are closed-shop, no P/R involved. NFL fans sell out Wembley because it's a rare opportunity for UK fans to see a game in the flesh...and yes, 99+% of those who go will understand the structure of the NFL and the nuances of the game, as they're fans (and some will be players, there's still domestic leagues over here - I was one in my younger days prior to injury).

 

Correct , 99% might understand the NFL structure , my question was does it affect them attending ? , the answer I am sure is NO , it doesnt

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2 hours ago, Rupert Prince said:

Even 1 up 1 down is too much jeopardy for me... And I am not really talking about the individual clubs, it's the game itself. In a league of 12 then 2 down is suicide.

However... If the bottom of the league has to face relegation, then I suggest it has a 'second chance' and there should be a playoff between the bottom and the top 3 of the Championship.  Arguably if the 12th can't beat 3rd at home it cannot complain... But please, don't call it a million pound game.

If we want to expand the game then zero relegation is essential. And to create some expansion then some sort of merger, or some other sort of arrangement, between clubs has to take place.

Sounds wonderful , but in best Dragons Den parlance

" I'm out "

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On 06 September 2018 at 12:05 AM, Rupert Prince said:

Setting aside the cheerleaders...

I suggest an analogy for the NFLs UK spectators is 20/20 cricket. Spectators at this bish bash instant cricket don't actually know anything about proper cricket and have no history of attending it. Likewise no one knows anything about serious about NFL who attend Wembley.

It all down to the crack. A convenient excuse/opportunity for a day out. There is no heritage.  It's possible that the success of Toronto feeds into this same notion.

.

 

' Proper cricket ' ? , what like Geoff boycott spending a couple of days at the crease to improve his personal stats ?

Cricket is a simple game , 1 bloke wazzes a ball at another trying to hit the 3 little sticks behind him , the other bloke tries to hit the ball with his funny shaped bat , that applies to all and every kind of cricket

' Proper cricket ' my a***

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4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Of course they do. Because they can only attend the fixture if its played.

If next year the NFL said we are introducing promotion and relegation and so wont be moving games to the UK, the 90k who pay about £90 a ticket would probably CARE which structure they had.

They wouldnt have a decision to make , so it is irrelivant

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10 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

' Proper cricket ' ? , what like Geoff boycott spending a couple of days at the crease to improve his personal stats ?

 

Poetry in motion.  I could watch Sir Geoffrey "gerrum in wuns" all day long.

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2 minutes ago, David Shepherd said:

Poetry in motion.  I could watch Sir Geoffrey "gerrum in wuns" all day long.

ALL day is what it took him to get ' wun ' sometimes , he'd be good at twenty20

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34 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

Correct , 99% might understand the NFL structure , my question was does it affect them attending ? , the answer I am sure is NO , it doesnt

You can't apply that thinking to the one-(or two-) off games at Wembley, you'd have to ask the domestic fans in USA if they would still go if the structure changed......


cru....Cru.....CRUSADERS!!!!!!

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