Hudgell wants SL/RFL to reunite

[Tommygilf]

Since when was there a restriction on clubs recruiting from outside their own city? Since when was there a restriction on anyone doing that in any business???

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Meow, look at me, I live down south.

Thats petty, would have thought it was beneath you Harry

[Roy Haggerty]

Neil Hudgell would be well-advised to learn that it’s possible to have a thought without immediately broadcasting it. 

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Since when was there a restriction on clubs recruiting from outside their own city? 

Are you new here?

You must have missed the endless debates about whether, for example, Bradford Bulls should be allowed to have any fans in towns that may or may not themselves have an active rugby league team which went down to which bits of which streets could really count as Bradford.

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

Thats petty, would have thought it was beneath you Harry

It's the internet, we're all pretty.

Oh, wait ...

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

Are you new here?

You must have missed the endless debates about whether, for example, Bradford Bulls should be allowed to have any fans in towns that may or may not themselves have an active rugby league team which went down to which bits of which streets could really count as Bradford.

Its ridiculous isn't it

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, Tommygilf said:

Since when was there a restriction on clubs recruiting from outside their own city? Since when was there a restriction on anyone doing that in any business???

None at all Tommy,  but please look at the context of the conversation, not only in this thread does Scotchy not recognise the value of the Community game generally and those volunteers who work so hard with the kids and without them we would not have much of a game at all, but everything pre going to an academy is just piffle as rar as he us concerned.

[Harry Stottle]

4 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

Thats petty, would have thought it was beneath you Harry

Look to posts down from yours, Ginger is not the only one who can deal in sarcasm.

[Harry Stottle]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Dont try and conflate Leigh RLFC with the community game. 

Give people more credit than that.

What are you talking about?

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

None at all Tommy,  but please look at the context of the conversation, not only in this thread does Scotchy not recognise the value of the Community game generally and those volunteers who work so hard with the kids and without them we would not have much of a game at all, but everything pre going to an academy is just piffle as rar as he us concerned.

There is a difference between the community game and the Championship and L1 clubs though Harry. Just as there is a difference between the Super League clubs and those community clubs. No single RFL/SL club can lay claim to any amateur club, unless we want to go down the line of formal divisions, in which naturally SL/Acadamied clubs would be the teams given jurisdiction.

The suggestion seemed to be that SL clubs who didn't have entirely Council area produced teams (something which gets tediously pointless to discern when multiple teams are in one district) are somehow lacking? Thats just not in line with reality of how talent recruitment works though RL does happen to be one of the more short sighted of industries in this regard. 

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Dont try and conflate Leigh RLFC with the community game. 

Give people more credit than that.

I will give you no credit at all, where the community game is concerned. 

[Gooleboy]

3 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

Yes they do. 

Featherstone lions arent dependent on fev rovers for their existence.

If fev Rovers go pop, leeds can still trot down to fev and pick up young players. 

Your knowledge of all Clubs at any level of RL is amazing!

[Smudger06]

38 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Your knowledge of all Clubs at any level of RL is amazing!

He thinks the youth of Featherstone are going to be inspired to play RL @ Fev Lions through all the age grades by Leeds Rhinos. Not their hometown Club on their doorstep, with its proud history which is cheaper and more accessible and which plenty of players from their high school signed with and played for. I don't know, these SL Clubs can hardly look after their own back yards never mind trotting about looking after clubs and inspiring youth regionally. Not gonna happen. Not in the way or with the results people on this thread think it's gonna happen. 

[Smudger06]

3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

That is the fact that eats at people like Harry who want to lay claim to the game. 

Once you understand Leigh are no more 'the community game' than leeds, all claims to ownership of the game sound ludicrous

Leigh are the beacon and the talisman for that particular community. Take away Leigh RLFC and inevitably you eventually take away another heartland community. The vast majority of their youth will be lost to MUFC, MCFC or even Sale Sharks. They are not gonna simply switch to Wigan. Ever. In any decent or worthwile numbers anyway. 

[Smudger06]

No because theres an historic rivalry. Ingrained in said community. 

[Smudger06]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

We arent talking about fans but players.

But you defeat your own point. If leigh rlfc didnt exist youngsters, I.e those who didnt have any affiliation, would switch to Wigan, as they would MUFC, MCFC or Sale

Where do you think the players come from? They are 1st fans, sons of fans, brothers of fans. 

[Smudger06]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

and yet play for Wigan. 

Your argument here would have us believe that if Leigh RLFC didnt exist. Players, who are first 1st fans, sons of fans, and brothers of fans who play for Wigan, would refuse to watch them and instead go and watch Sale.

Erm, no, who you support and who you work for are 2 very different things, in all sports. 

[Smudger06]

24 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

So what you are arguing here is that should Leigh RLFC not exist for some reason. Kids in Leigh would refuse to play for any of the Leigh amateur sides and as such never play for Wigan and as such, just by their sheer existence and no further contribution Leigh RLFC can lay claim to the development of players who start at amateur sides and come through SL sides academies. 

Im sorry mate but that is ludicrous. 

No, I'm not arguing that.

What you fail to release is the interwoven and interlinked nature of the sport. 

I can't speak for Leigh but if not for Featherstone Rovers, Featherstone High School would have switched to Union. With Fev Rovers gone and Fev High School playing Union. Local interest in the sport would be maintained at nowhere near the required level, participation numbers would plummet and Fev Lions would get to the stage where they couldn't field sides. They'd eventually call it a day. 

Don't tell me SL Clubs would take over the baton. They have an hard enough job on in their own backyards. They haven't the resources or the inclination to take an active and useful interest in community clubs further afield. Until SL Clubs can be trusted to grow youth participation numbers and community Club strength on their own patch, don't suggest for one minute they are going to be rolling into Fev on a daily basis offering tickets, organising curtain raisers, their players coaching the U12s in their spare time, coming to watch amateur games and a myriad of other useful and time consuming local activities. 

[Smudger06]

19 minutes ago, Smudger06 said:

No, I'm not arguing that.

What you fail to release is the interwoven and interlinked nature of the sport. 

I can't speak for Leigh but if not for Featherstone Rovers, Featherstone High School would have switched to Union. With Fev Rovers gone and Fev High School playing Union. Local interest in the sport would be maintained at nowhere near the required level, participation numbers would plummet and Fev Lions would get to the stage where they couldn't field sides. They'd eventually call it a day. 

Don't tell me SL Clubs would take over the baton. They have an hard enough job on in their own backyards. They haven't the resources or the inclination to take an active and useful interest in community clubs further afield. Until SL Clubs can be trusted to grow youth participation numbers and community Club strength on their own patch, don't suggest for one minute they are going to be rolling into Fev on a daily basis offering tickets, organising curtain raisers, their players coaching the U12s in their spare time, coming to watch amateur games and a myriad of other useful and time consuming local activities. 

Furthermore Clubs like Fev & Leigh do develop players, constantly and on an ongoing basis. 

[Smudger06]

4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The idea that we need a professional club every couple of miles of the amateur game will collapse is just nonsense, as is the idea the SL clubs should only do community engagement within a couple of miles radius. 

I dont know why its become accepted wisdom that SL clubs do nothing and lower league clubs are doing loads of community engagement because it simply isnt true. Leeds spend millions on the foundation and getting kids playing. 

100k kids per year, 700k in total will have played RL because of the Sky Try programme. There are 15k people total in Featherstone.

 

 

Never said SL Clubs do nothing, all Clubs have a part to play, the more the merrier. It's unfortunate history that our Pro & Semi Pro Clubs are treading on each other's toes. There's nothing we can do about that. 

[Smudger06]

7 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

The idea that we need a professional club every couple of miles of the amateur game will collapse is just nonsense, as is the idea the SL clubs should only do community engagement within a couple of miles radius. 

I dont know why its become accepted wisdom that SL clubs do nothing and lower league clubs are doing loads of community engagement because it simply isnt true. Leeds spend millions on the foundation and getting kids playing. 

100k kids per year, 700k in total will have played RL because of the Sky Try programme. There are 15k people total in Featherstone.

 

 

You know many in Pontefract & other towns are Fev Followers. Unfortunately There's probably more RL Fans spending good money on RL in that 15k than there are in London. 

[Smudger06]

6 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

But this doesn't make sense, if pontefract can be fev, why can Fev be Cas or Wakefield.

We dont need a club in pontefract to sustain the game there.

Because that's the way it is. Traditionally & historically. However you only have to look at Pontefract in the last 25 years. Case in point. 

25 years ago it was probably 45% Fev Followers, 15% Cas followers & 40% none RL. Now it's more like 30% Fev Followers, 20% Cas Folllowers and 50% none RL. 

Fev itself 25 years ago was 100% Fev Followers. Now it's 65% Fev, 5% Cas, 5% Wakey, 5% Leeds and 20% none RL. 

A quarter century significant net loss to the Sport of RL in both cases. 

[Gooleboy]

13 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I'm not arguing to get rid of any clubs (it was Harry's argument that the game would be fine if it went back to amateur level)

My argument is simply that we cant attribute the amateur production to the fact that some clubs exist in the vicinity of amateur strong holds. It's simply not the case. 

The games focus can not be to protect a small number of semi pro clubs because of a tenuous link to amateur participation. I've said before the game would be far better diverting some of the money fev or Leigh spend on players and giving it instead to fev lions et al 

Or give some of Leeds money to Stanningley or Hunslet Parkside instead of spending it on some of the dross brought in from overseas.

[Smudger06]

3 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Or give some of Leeds money to Stanningley or Hunslet Parkside instead of spending it on some of the dross brought in from overseas.

At least our overseas imports make a step up to SL or even prove themselves good enough to be in the NRL (scouting & player development at work?) As opposed to retirement or obscurity. 

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, Smudger06 said:

He thinks the youth of Featherstone are going to be inspired to play RL @ Fev Lions through all the age grades by Leeds Rhinos. Not their hometown Club on their doorstep, with its proud history which is cheaper and more accessible and which plenty of players from their high school signed with and played for. I don't know, these SL Clubs can hardly look after their own back yards never mind trotting about looking after clubs and inspiring youth regionally. Not gonna happen. Not in the way or with the results people on this thread think it's gonna happen. 

Its not cheaper and more accessible, Super League teams are on TV every week and have a much larger presence on Social media. They're more popular and spoken about more, their kits are by far and away the most common at junior rugby grounds.

That clubs in the Championship have survived without oxygen is admirable.