Euro XIIIs

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

I did, but they are completely different idioms, meaning completely different things.

You are obviously free to make your own conclusion but the fact is about 8 publishers rejected Harry Potter before it made JK Rowling a billionaire

Harry Potter had more substance to it than this.

If they want to be billionaires that would be an improvement on the current total lack of stated aims and strategy of this competition. I think its unlikely.

[del capo]

4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Do they? Is it even possible for them to do so?

Do they have any expertise in contract law, financing etc?

Yes  via the RFL if need be.

[del capo]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

The RFL has no jurisdiction, I'd also doubt they have the internal capability to do so.

 

That doesn't mean they can't be consulted and director Karen Moorhouse has one of the most incisive minds I have ever come across.

[gingerjon]

13 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

No it doesnt. 

We dont even know if L1 will exist in 2022

The RFL has fairly detailed criteria for its clubs and the mutual obligations and structure. The one for Tiers 1-3 runs to 596 pages.

https://www.rugby-league.com/flipbooks/2020-operational-rules-tiers-1-3/mobile/index.html#p=1

Tiers 4-6 is a bit shorter at 197 pages.

[langpark]

1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

The RFL has fairly detailed criteria for its clubs and the mutual obligations and structure. The one for Tiers 1-3 runs to 596 pages.

https://www.rugby-league.com/flipbooks/2020-operational-rules-tiers-1-3/mobile/index.html#p=1

Tiers 4-6 is a bit shorter at 197 pages.

Thanks for that. But I am sure scotchy has a clever answer ready, like "you don't know anything, none of us on this forum do". 

[del capo]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Maybe so, but look how long the RFL took to admit Toronto, Ottawa and still making up its mind on NYC.

It's hardly an agile organisation, and it's also one with it's own priorities. Who does Karen Moorhouses job while she focuses on this?

 It's called Due Diligence. I'm sure you will  not have signed off your multi million pound  company deals without that

RFL Board have been discussing Euro X111 as an agenda item this week......

[langpark]

5 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Maybe so, but look how long the RFL took to admit Toronto, Ottawa and still making up its mind on NYC.

Would you prefer they rush dodgy, unviable entities through the door?

Then you have the nerve to repeatedly use the phrase "due diligence" throughout this thread.

[Tommygilf]

10 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

We dont know there are no aims or strategy  they just havent been made available to you. A person who has no involvement.

You seem to be also forgetting the 1st comp is a year away, the league 2. 

We could assume that. 

Or we could use our brains and think these fellas have great ambitions but little strategy. Hence why @Hela Wigmen could get his imaginary team virtually in without any scrutiny. Or why there is no clear connection between any of the clubs (rep sides, top club sides, new amalgamations, amateur or professional). Or why the comp changed from 8 teams to 16 to a league to a cup then back to a league after 1 year. Or why the regional governing body, leading leagues (England, France and Serbia) and sub regional comps (Balkan Super League) seem to have been totally blindsided by this?

As it stands I could have set this up from my room in lockdown and have as much to show for it.

[gingerjon]

4 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Of course the RFL has its operational rules but it doesnt have the information being asked for here.

As I said, do we know if L1 will exist after 2021?

Do we know if there will be P+R next year?

The RFL published a plan from 2015 to 2021 then pretty much completely disregarded it. 

What's the SL/RFL expansion plan? Where does it see the game expanding to on 2022? Will the structure be the same in 2022? The funding model? How many teams will there be? Where are the publicised criteria for admittance of teams? Where is the public due diligence? Etc etc etc

The statement was that Super League has criteria for clubs.

You replied: No it doesnt.

It does. The criteria runs to 596 pages covering obligations on the clubs and those on the governing and organising body.

[Tommygilf]

23 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I honestly doubt that the things you are asking for would gain buy in from many people. 

I doubt there are many consumers of the product they are selling who are remotely interested in that information 

They should be self evident and not require explanation. That this isn't the case here should be telling.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, gingerjon said:

The statement was that Super League has criteria for clubs.

You replied: No it doesnt.

It does. The criteria runs to 596 pages covering obligations on the clubs and those on the governing and organising body.

Don't facts and logic him he doesn't like that.

[del capo]

Lovely lively debate but as a lawyer myself I think a can recognise a hopeless argument when I see one.

Time to back off Scotchy……... 

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

You haven't provided a single negative fact on this thread. Only the absence of information. 

That's considered by most to be called legitimate questioning in the absence of obvious reasoning. 

What negative facts would you be expecting? I've stated how the clubs seem incompatible, the competition is not obvious in its purpose, and that it has sidestepped national governing bodies and the regional body for no apparent reason?

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

Hela Wigman got an application form. Gohere  https://www.contractsfinder.service.gov.uk/Search

And you can get information and applications and PINs, EOIs and all sorts of pre market engagement for government contracts worth hundreds of millions of pounds.

After those pre market engagements those details will also change. Why they did will not be published as a matter of course. 

No he didn't he rang them up and said he ran a team in X city and was interested.

Regardless, I could still have come up with this from my bedroom with all it has to show for it.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It is hopeless because none of us have any control over it.

Whether it happens or not has nothing to do with any of us. The negativity is utterly pointless.

If you read almost everyone on this threads main original posts, the theme has not been negativity but healthy skepticism. This isn't from the usual "anti anything outside the M62 brigade" either. Many of the people have been avid supporters of Toronto or other expansion efforts and several including myself expressed sympathy for the problems bureaucracy can present in the RLEF.

That you're up for an argument over dismissing what are legitimate and reasonable concerns says more about you than anyone on here or the competition.

[langpark]

10 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

None. I'm not in charge of judging it.  Neither is anyone else.

In answer to your question the reasoning is obvious. Why would they submit themselves to the control of multiple governing bodies?

Submit? More like having a civil relationship with them and possibly benefit from their knowledge, experience and resources. Referees at the very least.

Oh that's right, white knight and friends (a highly respected, reputable organisation that has been successfully running RL competitions for decades in case you are unaware) has all this covered. 

Really, how so?

How dare you even ask such a question!

[del capo]

 So a privately funded ( not for profit ? ) organisation has set up a breakaway RL activity.

Welcome to the world of Rugby League ( Isn't that how we started in the first place some may say.... ) Can we never though learn from the wounds we self inflict ?

[Tommygilf]

8 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

It is anything but healthy scepticism.

Some of the things you have expected have been preposterous

You've lost the plot here mate, step back and have a look at whats been said.

[Tommygilf]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

I have. 

If you think that you have enough information to make any sort of informed conclusion, or you think that the organisers are under any obligation to give you that information, or benefit from doing so. That your failing, not theirs.

Oh ok. I would go back and look at your comments on the 1895 cup or the reintroduction of promotion and relegation to highlight your supreme hypocrisy but I don't need to because its clear as day

[Tommygilf]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

What is 'breakaway'. Not being under the auspices of an existing Governing body is neither a good or bad thing 

Tell that to the people trying to get us sport accord recognition for the past 20 years.

[del capo]

1 minute ago, scotchy1 said:

What is 'breakaway'. Not being under the auspices of an existing Governing body is neither a good or bad thing 

Are you serious ?

Break up a trade deal or Nato or the UN and go your own way . It's called anarchy. Declare Pimlico a republic. Glad  I don't deal with your company .....

 

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

What is 'breakaway'. Not being under the auspices of an existing Governing body is neither a good or bad thing 

 

[Tommygilf]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

You can, but you will look silly.

My issue with the 1895 cup is it was a stupid idea. My issue with P+R is based on the evidence of it actually happening.

Neither were based on a lack of information or being annoyed that information wasnt given to me

Of course I'll be the one looking silly

[Tommygilf]

2 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

Sport accord is not a sports governing body.

It is the people who accredit sports that make gaining government recognition and crucially funding massively easier. Look up how "World Rugby League" set us back as a sport in gaining that recognition because they decided to "not be under the auspices of the governing body".

[Tommygilf]

Just now, scotchy1 said:

No, some governments use it to define sports for government funding. 

Euro 13s arent doing that, nor are they positioning themselves as an alternative global governing body of the sport.

You're boring now

[del capo]

6 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

I honestly don't know how we got from it not being necessary for Euro 13 sides to operate under the existing NGBs to the break up of the UN

So you really believe that you can replicate decades of development  ( referees , coaching accreditation , health and safety , doping , discrimination issues ,discipline  - it goes on and on ) or are you just going to pinch  it off the shelf and get on with it because you want to do your own thing ?  Even privateers were ultimately responsible to Government departments in some shape or form...….