how to improve home nations

[stevevalerugby]

Maybe we need something like the 6 nations RU tournament so that there are  guaranteed games every season.  Yes England would probably win it most seasons to start with but if there is a tournament that players in Wales, France, Scotland and Ireland can see it may be a turning point for players wanting to play Rugby League instead of Union.  There are great players in Wales and i'm sure if there was a recognised international tournament being played regularly i'm sure they would want to aspire to represent their country.  Maybe a tournament that terrestrial TV could show to increase followers.

[Tommygilf]

17 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

Well then that is a huge issue as they will never vote for games to go ahead that effects their club calendar, are they? I can't even imagine how bad the international game would look like in union if the PRL and the LNR looked after internationals in the NH.

It doesn't have to be a huge issue. Indeed the RFL have been rather good in getting clubs onside about mid season games and England commitments. Where they have been poor is unlike the NRL seizing the opportunities their neighbours provide for internationals and nurturing them, the RFL have done comparatively little. 

[Keith989]

8 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

It doesn't have to be a huge issue. Indeed the RFL have been rather good in getting clubs onside about mid season games and England commitments. Where they have been poor is unlike the NRL seizing the opportunities their neighbours provide for internationals and nurturing them, the RFL have done comparatively little. 

I'm sorry but there is absolutely no good that can come from a domestic governing body running the international game. That is quite clear even now from the lack of internationals that we are currently getting. It's easy for them to get English domestic players on board with playing the few internationals England gets, but what about every other nation? What about getting more test windows? They absolutely have to be separate bodies.

[Tommygilf]

3 minutes ago, Keith989 said:

I'm sorry but there is absolutely no good that can come from a domestic governing body running the international game. That is quite clear even now from the lack of internationals that we are currently getting. It's easy for them to get English domestic players on board with playing the few internationals England gets, but what about every other nation? What about getting more test windows? They absolutely have to be separate bodies.

Are you being deliberately obtuse for a reason?

I've never argued its a particularly good system, but it is the system we have and so be it. The RFL aren't against international games, they just seem tunnel visioned to Australia, New Zealand and whoever is left on pacific test Weekend.

[fighting irish]

I confess, I'm not really excited by a 5 or 6 Nations tournament as in RaRa, especially with England being so dominant.

A competition like that lacks the necessary uncertainty about the results, which makes games intriguing.

For as long as England v Wales is an uncompetitive mismatch I'd like to see an association involving Wales with similar strength teams from Home Nations, Europe and the Americas, until we can match England and then invite them in.

Without the enormous commitment and the financial risk, of a 5 or 6 nation league structure, perhaps they could play a 'squash ladder' with say 7 or 8 teams in it, where everyone plays the team above and below them plus one challenge match.

If you beat the team above you, you take their place in the ladder the next season. Players and fans alike are crying out for some regular (competitive) fixtures.

I think that's something you can sell and use to encourage young players to be a part of.

[yipyee]

On 10/06/2020 at 00:58, wiganermike said:

American Football was televised in the UK during the 80s on Channel 4, a man called William "Refrigerator" Perry was one of the big names as was Dan Marino. Many tv shows from America that are shown over here contain and have contained references to American Football in some cases regularly. Films like Mean Machine, Wildcats, Any Given Sunday have also brought it to the attention of audiences outside the US. NFL Europe further introduced people to the sport during the 90s even though that league faltered it still led to more people picking up an interest in the sport. The NFL through a concerted effort have launched and expanded a series of games in London annually, they are excellent at promoting their sport. Even as a kid during the late 80s I remember that I could collect small cardboard NFL shirts that would fit on a key ring that were free with some kind of sweets (can't remember what they came free with but I do remember them). I don't care two hoots about American Football, I find it boring personally but without trying there are a collection of methods by which I from childhood was made aware of the sport and which to this day I can recall without trying and also a method more recently by which the NFL have sought to and succeeded in capitalising on those earlier efforts. American Football has no international teams as other sports do but through such efforts it has sufficiently entered the cultural sporting psyche over here that people will go to those games in London, will set up/play for their own local teams and are sufficiently interested that they will follow the results of a team on the other side of the Atlantic and consider it their team.

So is this the way to go then for expansion for a sport with little to no international game?

Have on the road games and build it up in an area with investment into the junior game?

[yipyee]

10 hours ago, fighting irish said:

I confess, I'm not really excited by a 5 or 6 Nations tournament as in RaRa, especially with England being so dominant.

A competition like that lacks the necessary uncertainty about the results, which makes games intriguing.

For as long as England v Wales is an uncompetitive mismatch I'd like to see an association involving Wales with similar strength teams from Home Nations, Europe and the Americas, until we can match England and then invite them in.

Without the enormous commitment and the financial risk, of a 5 or 6 nation league structure, perhaps they could play a 'squash ladder' with say 7 or 8 teams in it, where everyone plays the team above and below them plus one challenge match.

If you beat the team above you, you take their place in the ladder the next season. Players and fans alike are crying out for some regular (competitive) fixtures.

I think that's something you can sell and use to encourage young players to be a part of.

How does a team become competative if tvey are not competing?

There was the 4 nations with the winners of the NH/SH comps involved.

Scotland did very well if I remember correctly..

But then the progress was halted as the rug was pulled from underneath so we could look at condensing the international calender with a pointless and rubbish lions tour

[wiganermike]

1 hour ago, yipyee said:

So is this the way to go then for expansion for a sport with little to no international game?

Have on the road games and build it up in an area with investment into the junior game?

I never suggested that. You asked for an explanation as to the growth in popularity of American Football in the UK in reply to a different post I made. I just replied by giving you the ways in which it gained interest and entered the cultural sporting psyche of enough people in the UK for it to achieve the level of popularity it today enjoys despite the absence of an international aspect or any pro clubs in the UK (to my knowledge, as I said I personally have no care for that sport). The on  the road games in London came after close to 30 years of previous efforts to promote the sport in the UK (as well as coincidental promotion through tv show references and films). For that sport those efforts worked but it like football here is a financial behemoth able to swamp host cities and media with promotional material to an extent that not all sports are able.

[stevevalerugby]

2 hours ago, yipyee said:

How does a team become competative if tvey are not competing?

There was the 4 nations with the winners of the NH/SH comps involved.

Scotland did very well if I remember correctly..

But then the progress was halted as the rug was pulled from underneath so we could look at condensing the international calender with a pointless and rubbish lions tour

Yes but how many Scots where in the side aside from Heritage players. Surely the point of having an international side with players from Scotland is they inspire kids to want to emulate them same goes for Wales and Ireland. Wales 2018 European Championship team had 16 or 17 players that had come through the Wales age group’s.

 

[Keith989]

2 hours ago, yipyee said:

How does a team become competative if tvey are not competing?

There was the 4 nations with the winners of the NH/SH comps involved.

Scotland did very well if I remember correctly..

But then the progress was halted as the rug was pulled from underneath so we could look at condensing the international calender with a pointless and rubbish lions tour

Looking at The performamce of GB on that tour, I'm not sure why people think it would just be a complete run over for England. Yes England would win the tournament but the matches could be at least competitive if all the heritage players lined out. Anything is better than nothing.

[Tommygilf]

24 minutes ago, stevevalerugby said:

Yes but how many Scots where in the side aside from Heritage players. Surely the point of having an international side with players from Scotland is they inspire kids to want to emulate them same goes for Wales and Ireland. Wales 2018 European Championship team had 16 or 17 players that had come through the Wales age group’s.

 

Scotland and Wales need heritage players in Football and Rugby union, its not unreasonable to expect the same in Rugby league

[wiganermike]

5 minutes ago, stevevalerugby said:

Yes but how many Scots where in the side aside from Heritage players. Surely the point of having an international side with players from Scotland is they inspire kids to want to emulate them same goes for Wales and Ireland. Wales 2018 European Championship team had 16 or 117 players that had come through the Wales age group’s.

 

It's true that the ambition should be to get to a position where the teams will be filled by Scots/Irish/Welsh born kids that have grown up playing the sport and wanting to emulate the international players they saw in their nation's shirt. However with the best will in the world we cannot put out a team competitive enough now so as to inspire that interest and admiration without for the time being including heritage players to improve the overall quality of the teams. Without the likes of Lachlan Coote, Kane Linnett and Lewis Tierney who played for the Scots in that tournament they would not have been able to produce those impressive performances. They drew with NZ and gave England a real scare (I was at that double header at Coventry). The aim needs to be to gaining a competitive team now by assembling as strong a group as possible by using heritage players whilst over time phasing in native born players of sufficient quality as they emerge (and it will necessarily be quite a long time in the case of Scotland and Ireland, perhaps less so in Wales' case due to the existence of Welsh semi pro clubs and pro/semi pro players already). Scotland currently have only Matty Russell and David Scott playing pro/semi pro who were born in Scotland, Ireland have I think only the young lad at Huddersfield whose name I am unsure of (Ronan MIchael?). You could not have those players accompanied by 15/16 amateurs in a squad and have any hope of them competing as they can currently so we need to slot in heritage players for now at least.

[stevevalerugby]

2 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

I am absolutely certain that more kids would be inspired to pick up a ball by seeing a team of heritage players playing in huge events than a team of none heritage players playing in front of hundreds. 

If that was the case there should be thousands of kids playing Rugby League in Wales, Scotland and Ireland 

 

[AB90]

39 minutes ago, stevevalerugby said:

If that was the case there should be thousands of kids playing Rugby League in Wales, Scotland and Ireland 

 

Agreed. Success breeds success. These teams need to be able to compete in order to appeal to the public and get kids playing. Heritage players in my opinion are actually very vital to our international game. 

How boring and dull would the up coming 2021 world cup be without heritage players.

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, stevevalerugby said:

If that was the case there should be thousands of kids playing Rugby League in Wales, Scotland and Ireland 

 

No it wouldn't, because up to press they largely haven't.

[yipyee]

5 hours ago, stevevalerugby said:

Yes but how many Scots where in the side aside from Heritage players. Surely the point of having an international side with players from Scotland is they inspire kids to want to emulate them same goes for Wales and Ireland. Wales 2018 European Championship team had 16 or 17 players that had come through the Wales age group’s.

 

My point was that we had a mechanism for the top tier2 club to compete at tier 1.

We now don't have this and instead think GB lions is better to develop players from the home nations which it hasn't

Wales got beat off Scotland and I think France were winning at HT in their game with Scotland before this tournament and everyone thought that Scotland would get stuffed which they didnt 

I also remember France being up against England at HT.

The 4 nations was actually developing other opposition.

The GB lions is a joke and damaging to development