Skeletal tracking - forward passes

[DavidM]

29 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Or at least that what we think will be happening. In reality, the machines will be keeping the players in a simulated reality where they think they are playing Rugby League while all the time they are actually being harvested for their bioelectric power.

This may be happening right now in a parallel universe , just the other side of a vortex which opened up due to a tear in the space time continuum ... just outside Batley 

[Padge]

1 hour ago, Wholly Trinity said:

Hence why it's an acceleration in a forward direction as it leaves the passers hands. Wind or bounce is irrelevant at this split second. 

Wind is not irrelevant, the Laws of the game say it is relevant.If when the pass is made the balls momentum relative to the players momentum increases because of a gust of wind then it is not a forward pass.

All factors have to accounted for.

 

[Padge]

There is an easy fix to the technology problem. 

Everybody accepts the refs decision is final and gets on with it.

 

[Big Picture]

6 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Just shows the difference in the 2 competitions.  The NRL have money to play with, SL have a lot less.  imo the attitude is different as well but thats another thread.

The short, flat pass changed things.  At speed and traffic, very difficult to judge.   We dont need perfect though.

That's why a second on-field official on the offensive side of play is needed.  Make that the official (maybe call him an umpire to differentiate his role) the only judge of forward passes and knock-forwards.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

45 minutes ago, Padge said:

Wind is not irrelevant, the Laws of the game say it is relevant.If when the pass is made the balls momentum relative to the players momentum increases because of a gust of wind then it is not a forward pass.

All factors have to accounted for.

 

You've misunderstood. What he's saying is that at the moment the ball is passed, if the speed increases upon release (within that very short moment) it's obviously forward. In that short moment, the wind won't have affected it going forward as the player would be in the way of the wind you'd assume (so quick a moment that the wind would not have really taken hold of the ball yet).

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

I really don't see the issue people have with using technology to get the right result. It's completely different to the players - human error is what makes competition. Referees are not meant to make errors, so the closer we can get to ensure that there aren't any, the fairer the result.

Of course, entertainment is the number one factor, so if it takes away from that by being too long, then that's an issue. But personally I like the tension of watching the replay back when it's a close call.

[DavidM]

8 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

 

I really don't see the issue people have with using technology to get the right result

 

But we’re not always getting the right result , there’s still human error . 

[Padge]

52 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

You've misunderstood. What he's saying is that at the moment the ball is passed, if the speed increases upon release (within that very short moment) it's obviously forward. In that short moment, the wind won't have affected it going forward as the player would be in the way of the wind you'd assume (so quick a moment that the wind would not have really taken hold of the ball yet).

 

When a player releases the ball it is out to the side of him so that doesn't stand up.

[Wholly Trinity]

1 hour ago, Padge said:

Wind is not irrelevant, the Laws of the game say it is relevant.If when the pass is made the balls momentum relative to the players momentum increases because of a gust of wind then it is not a forward pass.

All factors have to accounted for.

 

At the instant (milliseconds) it leaves the passers hands? 

I know some games are played at Batley, but that's one hell of a wind. 

[Padge]

1 minute ago, Wholly Trinity said:

At the instant (milliseconds) it leaves the passers hands? 

I know some games are played at Batley, but that's one hell of a wind. 

Wind often comes in sudden strong gusts which have an effect on the balls travel, that is why for more than 100 years its effect has been taken into account in the laws of the game.

Let the ref decide and stop all this nonsense of trying to fix something that is only whinged about by some people who will never be satisfied because they don't understand the laws. Idiots will still compare the balls travel to the lines on the pitch and slag off the technology so why bother.

[Wholly Trinity]

2 minutes ago, Padge said:

Wind often comes in sudden strong gusts which have an effect on the balls travel, that is why for more than 100 years its effect has been taken into account in the laws of the game.

Let the ref decide and stop all this nonsense of trying to fix something that is only whinged about by some people who will never be satisfied because they don't understand the laws. Idiots will still compare the balls travel to the lines on the pitch and slag off the technology so why bother.

Once the passer has released the ball it's motion is then irrelevant. For a forward pass, any acceleration would have to be imparted by the passer before the point of letting go. This acceleration could easily be detected electronically. The wind could only act after the ball is released and as such is irrelevant in this case. 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

7 minutes ago, Padge said:

Wind often comes in sudden strong gusts which have an effect on the balls travel, that is why for more than 100 years its effect has been taken into account in the laws of the game.

Let the ref decide and stop all this nonsense of trying to fix something that is only whinged about by some people who will never be satisfied because they don't understand the laws. Idiots will still compare the balls travel to the lines on the pitch and slag off the technology so why bother.

Let's stop trying to look for ways to improve because some people will still moan... is that what you're saying?

To say "some people" moan about decisions makes it sound like you've never been to a game (which I know isn't true). It's a disingenuous argument.

Like I say, I don't see an issue in looking for improvements if it helps get the right result.

[Padge]

1 minute ago, Wholly Trinity said:

Once the passer has released the ball it's motion is then irrelevant. For a forward pass, any acceleration would have to be imparted by the passer before the point of letting go. This acceleration could easily be detected electronically. The wind could only act after the ball is released and as such is irrelevant in this case. 

Wrong

[Trojan]

2 hours ago, Padge said:

There is an easy fix to the technology problem. 

Everybody accepts the refs decision is final and gets on with it.

 

Surely one of the points of the game is the talking points decisions like this cause.  e.g. people are still arguing about the penalty try awarded to Leeds at Wembley in 1968 - 52 years ago.

I was told that in the noughties Bradford rehearsed moves based on a forward passes.  

There was a time IIRC when Aussie refs were penalising the forward pass with a penalty for offside.

If there was no controversy there'd be no game really.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

1 minute ago, Wholly Trinity said:

Once the passer has released the ball it's motion is then irrelevant. For a forward pass, any acceleration would have to be imparted by the passer before the point of letting go. This acceleration could easily be detected electronically. The wind could only act after the ball is released and as such is irrelevant in this case. 

Exactly.

This is the way to go.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

1 minute ago, Padge said:

Wrong

Thank you Donald Trump.

[Wholly Trinity]

1 minute ago, Padge said:

Wrong

How?

 

[Padge]

3 minutes ago, Wholly Trinity said:

Once the passer has released the ball it's motion is then irrelevant. For a forward pass, any acceleration would have to be imparted by the passer before the point of letting go. This acceleration could easily be detected electronically. The wind could only act after the ball is released and as such is irrelevant in this case. 

Does this non-existent technology take into account the spin put on the ball?

[Padge]

Just now, Wholly Trinity said:

How?

 

I've told you more than once.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

1 minute ago, Trojan said:

Surely one of the points of the game is the talking points decisions like this cause.  e.g. people are still arguing about the penalty try awarded to Leeds at Wembley in 1968 - 52 years ago.

I was told that in the noughties Bradford rehearsed moves based on a forward passes.  

There was a time IIRC when Aussie refs were penalising the forward pass with a penalty for offside.

If there was no controversy there'd be no game really.

Nonsense.

Controversy should be caused by players, not officials. The best games I remember are the ones were I've not thought about the referee once because he's had a good game and the entertainment is just left to the players.

[Padge]

3 minutes ago, Trojan said:

Surely one of the points of the game is the talking points decisions like this cause.  e.g. people are still arguing about the penalty try awarded to Leeds at Wembley in 1968 - 52 years ago.

I was told that in the noughties Bradford rehearsed moves based on a forward passes.  

There was a time IIRC when Aussie refs were penalising the forward pass with a penalty for offside.

If there was no controversy there'd be no game really.

A deliberate forward pass is still a penalty, that would be if you know the player is in front of you and you pass it to him then it is a penalty.

 

[Wholly Trinity]

2 minutes ago, Padge said:

I've told you more than once.

Are you saying the wind can act on the ball before the passer lets go?

[Wellsy4HullFC]

1 minute ago, Padge said:

Does this non-existent technology take into account the spin put on the ball?

How do you think the spin of the ball would affect this non-existent technology?

[Wholly Trinity]

3 minutes ago, Padge said:

A deliberate forward pass is still a penalty, that would be if you know the player is in front of you and you pass it to him then it is a penalty.

 

That would be offside not a forward pass,

[Trojan]

3 minutes ago, Padge said:

A deliberate forward pass is still a penalty, that would be if you know the player is in front of you and you pass it to him then it is a penalty.

 

How does the ref know what you know? Anyway at the time IIRC they were punishing every forward pass with a penalty.  Perhaps they'd had an instruction to clamp down on it.  Who knows?