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Lowdesert

Skeletal tracking - forward passes

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Apparently there’s a ‘new’ technology that enables vision called ‘eyes’. They work by detecting light, and have cells in something called the ‘retina’ that allow the perception of depth. Maybe that could work?

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15 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Apparently there’s a ‘new’ technology that enables vision called ‘eyes’. They work by detecting light, and have cells in something called the ‘retina’ that allow the perception of depth. Maybe that could work?

Based on my experience as a referee, probably not.

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19 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

Apparently there’s a ‘new’ technology that enables vision called ‘eyes’. They work by detecting light, and have cells in something called the ‘retina’ that allow the perception of depth. Maybe that could work?

You had my in the first half, I believe is the expression 😂👍

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Could they not just put a tracker in the bank to measure it's speed in the forward direction? If it's speed increases when passed, it's gone forward in relation to the player's speed then.

Would be a lot cheaper than measuring every part of every player!

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18 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Could they not just put a tracker in the bank to measure it's speed in the forward direction? If it's speed increases when passed, it's gone forward in relation to the player's speed then.

Would be a lot cheaper than measuring every part of every player!

Just shows the difference in the 2 competitions.  The NRL have money to play with, SL have a lot less.  imo the attitude is different as well but thats another thread.

The short, flat pass changed things.  At speed and traffic, very difficult to judge.   We dont need perfect though.

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In a decade this will probably be simple, accurate and affordable technology. Our game will never be the same again.

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1 minute ago, Copa said:

In a decade this will probably be simple, accurate and affordable technology. Our game will never be the same again.

If it’s anything like VAR, please NO

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28 minutes ago, Copa said:

In a decade this will probably be simple, accurate and affordable technology. Our game will never be the same again.

I said this last decade to be fair and it hasn't arrived yet!

I compared it to Hawkeye but on a less technical scale.

That article makes it sound way too complicated. Referees use the hands to help judge whether it's gone forward in relation to the player. I don't AI would be able to do that (yet) because there are just so many variables (i.e. which way is the player facing?)

The rule is about the ball traveling forwards in relation to the player's forward motion. Just measure both of those and if there's an increase then it's forward.

It should just be a case of "how do we measure those 2 things with enough accuracy that it can be used in officiating?"

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Absolute rubbish . The never ending search for the perfect game goes on , with technology officiating the game checking everything so nothing is ever wrong ... BS , I’d go completely the other way . The whole nature of the game has been changed , and on field officials have lost all will and confidence in decision making . And we strive for more and more when we should get less and less external involvement . Once you openly say it’s not fool proof and you’ll get errors then what’s the point , that’s the same as refs and touchies . Get shot , put the money in development pathways , get in goal touchies and get officials officiating and a game isn’t dissected to hell and doesn’t last longer than Ben Hur . Funny in the 9s they call and get the vast majority right . Tech hasn’t eradicated human error , never will as it’s still a bloke at the end of it , and it hasn’t eradicated endless debate and controversy and never will

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1 hour ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Could they not just put a tracker in the bank to measure it's speed in the forward direction? If it's speed increases when passed, it's gone forward in relation to the player's speed then.

Would be a lot cheaper than measuring every part of every player!

You would have to also measure wind speed at the precise time of the momentum of the ball accelerating past the speed of the passer.. 

Ball is blown or bounces forward If the ball is passed correctly but bounces forward or is blown forward by the wind, there is no infringement and play should continue.

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2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Apparently there’s a ‘new’ technology that enables vision called ‘eyes’. They work by detecting light, and have cells in something called the ‘retina’ that allow the perception of depth. Maybe that could work?

Based on trials with fans, the efficiency of this "eyes" technology also seems to vary, based on which team is passing the ball. So still a few bugs to work out there, I feel.

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3 hours ago, Man of Kent said:

Apparently there’s a ‘new’ technology that enables vision called ‘eyes’. They work by detecting light, and have cells in something called the ‘retina’ that allow the perception of depth. Maybe that could work?

Eyes technology is defunct if you never believe what your eyes are seeing .  So you let someone else decide , ultimately with their eyes , so he can 100% get it right for you . And thus the moaning you’d get from refs making decisions and getting them wrong is totally extinct and everyone is happy 

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Why don't we just watch CGI of the players scoring perfect tries and referees never making a mistake... these human beings just get in the way of the entertainment. 

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3 hours ago, Lowdesert said:

Currently being looked at.  Do we really need this.

I hope the reviewers of this new system arent the same people writing out this link.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-28/nrl-looking-skeletal-tracking-upgrade-for-contorversial-bunker/12497812?section=sport

 

Hopefully this does not happen

Already too many stoppages 

There was at least 2 try groundings checked in the NRL last weekend that were shocking.... They ball was so clearly put down properly that I couldn't believe they went to the Bunker

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3 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Why don't we just watch CGI of the players scoring perfect tries and referees never making a mistake... these human beings just get in the way of the entertainment. 

Its a joke isn't it..... One thing I love about rugby is that no one is walking around with a bl oodynphone in their hand

.... I am typing this from my phone of course 🤔

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21 minutes ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

Hopefully this does not happen

Already too many stoppages 

There was at least 2 try groundings checked in the NRL last weekend that were shocking.... They ball was so clearly put down properly that I couldn't believe they went to the Bunker

I like when they’re standing there watching everything ... then they consult the touchies and say ‘ yep i saw that , yep I’ve  a try to ‘ ,  then in detail tell the VR what they’ve seen and end with ‘ confirm that ‘ . It wasn’t really meant to be used like that but that’s what technology does , it permeates deeper n deeper in and becomes a comfort blanket 

Edited by DavidM
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3 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Could they not just put a tracker in the bank to measure it's speed in the forward direction? If it's speed increases when passed, it's gone forward in relation to the player's speed then.

Would be a lot cheaper than measuring every part of every player!

I believe a German company perfected mounting a sensor in a ball for the alternative bid to VAR.

You'd only need to accurately measure the position of the ball relative to the try lines in real time. A sensor mounted in each crossbar would be sufficient using simple pythagorus to pinpoint the location. This would allow you to calculate the speed and then the acceleration of the ball at any moment in this direction.

This could then be matched to video of the pass to detect any forward acceleration at moment of release.

It could be used on limited captain's appeal on the build up to trys . A bit like the snickometer in cricket.  

But overall, I'd just prefer a tiny change in wording of the law to state that the ball must be passed in a backward direction, making flat passes forward and moving the cut-off point of decisions from flat/forwards to backwards/flat. 

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The officals make errors and so do player's just accept it and get on with the game. It's only due to the blanket coverage the game gets in the NRL and the plethora of pundits trying to justify their exsistance that that has brought about 'The Bunker' and another lair of people to make errors.

As for forward passes change the law to say the ball must be passed backwards, that will rule out 2/3 of the contentious issues.

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3 hours ago, Copa said:

In a decade this will probably be simple, accurate and affordable technology. Our game will never be the same again.

It will, it's just the present ruling allows the forward pass to be  exploited moreso in presnt day playing methods, it was not as prevelent before the 'flat' pass or 'line ball' came into vogue, if technology catches up to identify more misdemeanours the coaches will change their methods. 

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2 hours ago, Padge said:

You would have to also measure wind speed at the precise time of the momentum of the ball accelerating past the speed of the passer.. 

Ball is blown or bounces forward If the ball is passed correctly but bounces forward or is blown forward by the wind, there is no infringement and play should continue.

 

37 minutes ago, Wholly Trinity said:

I believe a German company perfected mounting a sensor in a ball for the alternative bid to VAR.

You'd only need to accurately measure the position of the ball relative to the try lines in real time. A sensor mounted in each crossbar would be sufficient using simple pythagorus to pinpoint the location. This would allow you to calculate the speed and then the acceleration of the ball at any moment in this direction.

This could then be matched to video of the pass to detect any forward acceleration at moment of release.

It could be used on limited captain's appeal on the build up to trys . A bit like the snickometer in cricket.  

But overall, I'd just prefer a tiny change in wording of the law to state that the ball must be passed in a backward direction, making flat passes forward and moving the cut-off point of decisions from flat/forwards to backwards/flat. 

See the quote above which in turn quotes the Laws of the game regarding the fact the effect of  the wind has to be taken account.


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Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007

Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.

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In 20 years we may have 50 cameras around the field connected to a computer that enforces a certain number of laws. A 6 again style buzzer will call a penalty.

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14 minutes ago, Copa said:

In 20 years we may have 50 cameras around the field connected to a computer that enforces a certain number of laws. A 6 again style buzzer will call a penalty.

Or at least that what we think will be happening. In reality, the machines will be keeping the players in a simulated reality where they think they are playing Rugby League while all the time they are actually being harvested for their bioelectric power.

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We’ve already lost the ability to prevent over officiating from ruining the game so it’s a no from me.

over officiating has already taken much of the fluidity of the game away and with it some of the entertainment value we had 20+ years ago.

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46 minutes ago, Padge said:

 

See the quote above which in turn quotes the Laws of the game regarding the fact the effect of  the wind has to be taken account.

Hence why it's an acceleration in a forward direction as it leaves the passers hands. Wind or bounce is irrelevant at this split second. 

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