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On 28/04/2021 at 18:41, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

League One looks like it could be in trouble. Let’s turn the negative into a positive. Spitting the League into a League One North and League One South would significantly reduce travel costs for clubs at that level, while also allowing us to bring in new expansion clubs into League One South, at a level their more likely able to compete at.

Name the teams you'd have in a League One South.

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I have been watching L1 for nearly a decade and I love it. I love the range of clubs from all over the country and aboard I get to see. I love how authentic it is. I have seen some great games of

It's attitudes like this that very much annoy me. Who are you decide a clubs worth based on stuff you know nothing about. Why is the solution to cut clubs from the game? Is cutting £60-70k funding goi

Mr Shaw Wright hitting the nail on the head here. League 1 clubs and particularly expansion clubs are always the target of these magical cost cutting exercises 

13 minutes ago, bowes said:

Name the teams you'd have in a League One South.

Maybe the Southern Conference could be used. Have around 8 teams in a League 1 South using existing semi pro clubs and any Southern Conference teams that would like to step up. Then keep East and West leagues below that. 

If League 1 is going to die then at least there would be somewhere for the clubs to play.

It doesn't even have to be semi pro but maybe funding could be given for travel etc

 

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24 minutes ago, bowes said:

Name the teams you'd have in a League One South.

London Skolars, a new London side, Hemel, South Wales Scorpions, West Wales Raiders, Gloucestershire all golds, Bristol Sonics, Nottingham Outlaws, Coventry Bears, and any other new sides that  want to apply and step up.

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3 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

London Skolars, a new London side, Hemel, South Wales Scorpions, West Wales Raiders, Gloucestershire all golds, Bristol Sonics, Nottingham Outlaws, Coventry Bears, and any other new sides that  want to apply and step up.

South Wales Scorpions were taken over by West Wales Raiders so I don't think the Scorpions still exist. After their experience of League 1 would Hemel want to step up again or are they happier where they are now?

I know a few people keep suggesting a North/South split to cut travel should League 1 cease to operate as it does presently but I think an East and West split would be better if there were to be a regional set up below the Championship. That way the more southerly clubs would be able to regularly play clubs from the northern heartland and would be able to more readily see how they were developing as clubs rather than creating an instantly much stronger North division that was supposedly on par with a weaker South division. In an East and West split the top teams in each would be of a pretty even standard to those in the other division with the same applying when comparing the weaker teams in one division to those weaker teams in the other division.

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4 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

London Skolars, a new London side, Hemel, South Wales Scorpions, West Wales Raiders, Gloucestershire all golds, Bristol Sonics, Nottingham Outlaws, Coventry Bears, and any other new sides that  want to apply and step up.

Typical.   Just plonk teams in places where you'd like to have one and hope the fans rock up.

It's a tried and tested method.  Unfortunately, the tests haven't been all that successful.

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"We'll sell you a seat .... but you'll only need the edge of it!"

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4 hours ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

London Skolars, a new London side, Hemel, South Wales Scorpions, West Wales Raiders, Gloucestershire all golds, Bristol Sonics, Nottingham Outlaws, Coventry Bears, and any other new sides that  want to apply and step up.

Can't see any of the current London clubs wanting to step up and not sure how you'd get enough players for a new club to come in. As for Bristol Sonics and Gloucestershire all golds - have you just pulled the same list of out from when you first suggested this?

How many promotion spots would you give for North and South into the Championship?

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Fascinating fact: Llanelli is further away from New River than Doncaster, Hunslet, Keighley, Oldham and Rochdale.

Yet some people think this is the basis for an easy travelling unfunded amateur league

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56 minutes ago, Jeff Stein said:

Fascinating fact: Llanelli is further away from New River than Doncaster, Hunslet, Keighley, Oldham and Rochdale.

Yet some people think this is the basis for an easy travelling unfunded amateur league

Llanelli to Widnes is about 150 miles on largely empty A roads. Widnes to Hull KR is 123 miles on a motorway that is often at a standstill. Widnes, Warrington, St. Helens are all a shorter drive from Llanelli than Colwyn Bay for the Wales derby.

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16 hours ago, PhilCarrington said:

Can't see any of the current London clubs wanting to step up and not sure how you'd get enough players for a new club to come in. As for Bristol Sonics and Gloucestershire all golds - have you just pulled the same list of out from when you first suggested this?

How many promotion spots would you give for North and South into the Championship?

I’d go for a combined League One North and League One South play off. As things stand at the moment the promotion places would go to the League One North sides as they’re stronger, in time that country change.

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52 minutes ago, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

I’d go for a combined League One North and League One South play off. As things stand at the moment the promotion places would go to the League One North sides as they’re stronger, in time that country change.

How are you expecting the weaker L1S teams to get stronger in comparison to their L1N counterparts, when they don't get to play those stronger teams?

In addition, your League One South team list has just three teams who are currently in L1 and a load of amateur teams. How are you expecting these amateur teams to make the jump to semi professionalism?

Currently, many of the southern teams get their highest attendances against some of the traditional clubs. How are you expecting clubs like London Skolars and Coventry, who are already operating on tight budgets, to manage with the loss of revenue? London vs West Wales is hardly a local rivalry. Or Bristol vs Nottingham.

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Does anyone on here have any idea of what it would cost to get Active League as it’s own stand alone channel on satellite TV?

if there was some way of linking that in with the Aussie game as well as showing filler games from some of the other nations, then surely it would be an easier sell than the current phone/tablet app format?

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On 02/05/2021 at 11:11, Sir Kevin Sinfield said:

London Skolars, a new London side, Hemel, South Wales Scorpions, West Wales Raiders, Gloucestershire all golds, Bristol Sonics, Nottingham Outlaws, Coventry Bears, and any other new sides that  want to apply and step up.

Bristol Sonics and South Wales Scorpions have both folded.

Nottingham would probably be reluctant to switch to a league that's probably not too different in standard from their current league but with more travelling.

I don't know how Hemel or Gloucestershire All Golds would feel about joining, and it may be possible to get extra Welsh or London teams to join but it doesn't really look like a League 1 South. Maybe NCL South but even not all clubs would meet off field criteria and it would be a demotion for the semi-pro clubs.

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On 29/04/2021 at 22:35, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

This for me is obviously a lot more sustainable, and isn't costing 75k of TV funding. I'm not sure why some people seem to think this is less worthy than running a semi pro team in League 1. This is sustainable development that helps to expand the footprint of the game. They're performing a far more useful function than the semi pro Hemel that played in League 1.

Where did you get that figure from and can you supply me a link? Insider information from their last L1 season lets me know how much they actually got.

My wife complains I selfishly stop her fulfilling her true ambition -

she really wants to be a rich widow

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1 minute ago, BJW said:

Where did you get that figure from and can you supply me a link? Insider information from their last L1 season lets me know how much they actually got.

Yep another myth about L1, the figure is around £50-60k, or approx the average Superleague salary. But of course as we all know cutting this funding from L1 clubs will save Rugby League. 

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4 hours ago, bowes said:

Bristol Sonics and South Wales Scorpions have both folded.

Nottingham would probably be reluctant to switch to a league that's probably not too different in standard from their current league but with more travelling.

I don't know how Hemel or Gloucestershire All Golds would feel about joining, and it may be possible to get extra Welsh or London teams to join but it doesn't really look like a League 1 South. Maybe NCL South but even not all clubs would meet off field criteria and it would be a demotion for the semi-pro clubs.

This league one South idea has been talked about so many times but no one has yet to convince me it will benefit the game, aside from supposedly saving a small amount of central funding. There is also the small issue of flaws in these proposals, some of which you have highlighted above 

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2 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

This league one South idea has been talked about so many times but no one has yet to convince me it will benefit the game, aside from supposedly saving a small amount of central funding. There is also the small issue of flaws in these proposals, some of which you have highlighted above 

Hopefully one day they'll be able to create a southern version of the NCL, but I don't think we're there yet. League 1 South seems a step too far.

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I don’t see a L1 north/south split as viable. Not enough clubs down here and southern clubs won’t improve. We need to build amateur clubs down here and link them with semi pro teams more but we need a expanded L1. 

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21 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

Yep another myth about L1, the figure is around £50-60k, or approx the average Superleague salary. But of course as we all know cutting this funding from L1 clubs will save Rugby League. 

Around being the operative word. Been told plenty of figures for certain clubs, from how much central funding to what the coach was on.

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My wife complains I selfishly stop her fulfilling her true ambition -

she really wants to be a rich widow

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21 hours ago, OriginalMrC said:

Yep another myth about L1, the figure is around £50-60k, or approx the average Superleague salary. But of course as we all know cutting this funding from L1 clubs will save Rugby League. 

The figure varies from club to club. As I'm sure you are aware but perhaps others aren't, clubs can get extra funding based on things like how many people state them as their supported club when registering for the OurLeague app, their social media presence (number of followers, shared and retweeted content etc). L1 funding isn't an equal share of a set sum its incentive based to a certain extent.

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I have been watching L1 for nearly a decade and I love it.

I love the range of clubs from all over the country and aboard I get to see. I love how authentic it is. I have seen some great games of rugby league (and sometimes some not so great). I love the passion of the fans, the players and owners - all of whom love the game (why else, currently, would you get involved at this level?) I like that it's affordable and accessible. The beer's pretty good too and I love how the clubs reach out into their communities. I have met some cracking people at matches.

I am sure the same could be said for the Championship.

The issue is not the product. For goodness sake L1 is part of a sport that has national coverage and (maybe not as much as we like) national profile. We have a World Cup this year. Given the costs at this level, L1 does not require much investment but it does need some and surely its not beyond the wit of the game to work out a strategy that supports it and allows it to start to fulfil its potential. 

 

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The development of the link between Amateur and Semi Pro clubs is one of the most Important topics discussed on this forum and has been the most badly managed by the sport in the last forty years that I know of. So much time and money has been wasted, we lose so many new clubs after a couple of years, due to one or more of the reasons other posters have identified.  

We cannot continue to expect non full time Players and Club staff to travel hundreds of miles to play regular fixtures, given the constraints of modern life. 

League 1 sadly probably cannot continue in its current format unless properly funded (£75K per club currently for a National competition just seems unsustainable). Would like to see the travel time reduced for regular fixtures for these clubs if that means a number of smaller leagues with some inter league fixtures then that might help. 

 

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2 hours ago, EssexRL said:

I have been watching L1 for nearly a decade and I love it.

I love the range of clubs from all over the country and aboard I get to see. I love how authentic it is. I have seen some great games of rugby league (and sometimes some not so great). I love the passion of the fans, the players and owners - all of whom love the game (why else, currently, would you get involved at this level?) I like that it's affordable and accessible. The beer's pretty good too and I love how the clubs reach out into their communities. I have met some cracking people at matches.

I am sure the same could be said for the Championship.

The issue is not the product. For goodness sake L1 is part of a sport that has national coverage and (maybe not as much as we like) national profile. We have a World Cup this year. Given the costs at this level, L1 does not require much investment but it does need some and surely its not beyond the wit of the game to work out a strategy that supports it and allows it to start to fulfil its potential. 

 

Agree with you 100% on this, it's a great league for so many reasons. It's actually the only league which has a national footprint and there has always been so many interesting teams involved. L1 should be more valued by some people in the game. If L1 was cut adrift and a number of teams were lost from the game in years to come I have no doubt it would be seen as a massive mistake. 

As you say for the amount invested it is well worth holding onto. 

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29 minutes ago, City RL said:

 

League 1 sadly probably cannot continue in its current format unless properly funded (£75K per club currently for a National competition just seems unsustainable). Would like to see the travel time reduced for regular fixtures for these clubs if that means a number of smaller leagues with some inter league fixtures then that might help. 

 

I agree it needs to change but totally disagree that we need to reduce things. Quite the opposite. We need to be bold. We need to plan for growth and development not retreat. 
 

The teams (and fans) cope with travel. The regional issue is access to players which means some teams are disadvantaged. Building the game, including amateur level, is the answer to that. 

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On 29/04/2021 at 17:34, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

Not at all - you're putting words in my mouth there. For me, it all comes back to the issue of a long term plan. If the RFL are identifying areas for development, then these areas need to be properly resourced, with strategies for player growth and development. If they aren't, then I think it's unfair and unrealistic for the RFL to essentially drop clubs in at the deep end to see if they can sink or swim, just so that they can claim they're developing the sport in new areas.

If the RFL thinks that Coventry/London/Llanelli (delete as appropriate) is strategically the right area to grow the game, then plan and resource it properly. But on the flip side, if the RFL is just going to treat these new areas exactly the same as heartlands teams, then they shouldn't be surprised if those new teams struggle to compete due to the lack of infrastructure (i.e. community clubs, player pool, etc) compared to the heartlands. I want to avoid situations like we saw with All Golds, Oxford and Hemel, where hundreds of thousands of pounds was spent over several seasons with ultimately nothing to show for it.

Also, I don't think that League 1 is the be all and end all in terms of the pyramid (plus I don't really agree with the term 'pyramid', as currently the 'pro' game is only a very shallow pyramid that doesn't include the vast majority of clubs from where the majority of players are actually produced). I think there should be a complete overhaul of the structure of the game from grassroots to elite level, in order to provide suitable playing levels and opportunities for progression. If League 1 had funding cut and Coventry were no longer able to compete at that level, what is to stop them playing at Southern Conference level and focusing their resources on developing juniors? I previously gave the example of Cramlington Rockets - a club in a development area who have obviously been extremely proactive in growing and developing their junior section. Is a club like Cramlington not just as, if not more valuable to the 'pyramid' as a League 1 club?

I would be interested to hear your thoughts.

Coventry surely has potential and ambition to become the focal point and the hub of a small network of Clubs which would be similar to Cramlington rockets, I think that's the difference and the hope really......

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On 29/04/2021 at 17:38, RugbyLeagueGeek said:

What are the roots? Are they Championship and League 1, or are the roots further down starting with U7s at a community club? Or are they all roots that are part of the same structure? I honestly don't think the RFL knows what the purpose is of the various levels of competition they have, and how they all fit together as part of a bigger picture. I would include schools and universities in this as well. What is the player pathway from junior to international, and how does somebody get there? Is it the same in London as it is in Leeds?

The main pathway would be from the North West Counties Junior RL age grade comps to U16 level and then to Saints, Wigan & Warrington Academies, 1st teams and then England or across the pennines from the Yorkshire Junior RL comps to Leeds, Huddersfield, Hull, HKR, Cas and Wakey academies, 1st teams then England......obviously pennines switching and other routes are available......

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