Ireland, Scotland, Italy and Lebanon demotion

[Damien]

Seems like we lost this thread:

International Rugby League will assist Ireland, Italy, Lebanon and Scotland to grow the game domestically after the four nations, along with Russia, were reclassified as Affiliate Members.  

A meeting of full members on March 14 agreed on significant changes to the classification of nations whose governing bodies have been non-compliant with the terms of the IRL membership policy for up to five years.  

Russia’s Association of Rugby League Clubs was already suspended from international competition.  

Lebanon’s place at the 2026 World Cup is not affected by the decision as the Cedars had already qualified after reaching the quarter-final stage of RLWC2021, which was staged in England in 2022.  

However, Ireland, Italy and Scotland are ineligible to participate in qualifiers for the IRL Men’s Rugby League World Cup 2026, which will be staged in the Southern Hemisphere.  

https://www.intrl.sport/news/irl-membership-ireland-italy-lebanon-scotland-reclassified/

 

[Damien]

As I said previously, I think this is great news and should be a kick up the backside to these countries. Ireland and Scotland in particular need to seriously up their game when it comes to domestic development. Lebanon I have more sympathy for because of the siituation there.

[Farmduck]

Scotland should have been punted 10 years ago. One of the most basic requirements is having a regular comp of at least 4 adult teams. I don't know how often they've managed that. According to their site they didn't have a player of the year in 2020 or 2021 and they haven't announced the 2022 winner yet. Their 2023 season consisted of 9 games. Not 9 rounds, a total of 9 games.

[NRLandSL]

Great News, shame they didn’t kick Lebanon out of the World Cup though, Wales would be far more deserving of a spot.

[Sports Prophet]

Happy for this decision. I anticipate had the next World Cup remained as 16 teams, we wouldn't have seen these changes.

Onwards and upwards for all involved who wish to be involved.

[Barley Mow]

54 minutes ago, NRLandSL said:

Great News, shame they didn’t kick Lebanon out of the World Cup though, Wales would be far more deserving of a spot.

You think Wales are more obviously 'deserving' than France?

[corkonian77]

I am a country affected by this decision. That being Ireland. 

One thing i commend the board for doing is picking a good weekend to bury bad news.  It went unreported in Ireland and very commneted on it. 

On face value the criteria on face value seem laugablely easy.  Leitrim a county with a population of 30,000 would meet the criteria if its GAA clubs also played Rugby League. To get a true understanding of the problems of Rugby League expanding in Ireland you have to look back. 

Ireland pre the Celtic Tiger of the 1990s was a cold house to professional sport and federations had little interest in going professional. 

The interest in Rugby League took off with Rupert Murdochs Sky TV in the 90s and the ending of the ban in 1995. Rugby League in Ireland seemed to be in its strongest in 2000's . Both Ian Dowling and Brian Carney played Rugby League and both became dual code internationals. In the mid 90's the then Super League must have seemed alot more glamerous than the domestic Irish Rugby Union scene.

Since that period Rugby League in Ireland seems to have gone into stagnation and decline. In 2013 the RFL anounced that they would cut Rugby League Ireland funding. This decision has had devistating consequences and had led to the situation we are at now. 

Had Rugby Leaugue put big money in the 90s and 2000s in Ireland things may have worked out differently. The creation of the Celtic League in Rugby Union in 2001 seriously affected Rugby League chances of expansion in Ireland. While Rugby League Ireland had two international matches on TV a year on at best Rugby Union had 2 to 3 Provinical matches a weekend on Free TV.  The professionalisation of Irish Rugby Union has led to a explosion of interest in the game. It is ironic the country that least wanted professionalism benefited the most while Australia the one that most wanted it the most benefited the least. The  Provincal Rugby Union teams have caught the public imangination. 

There has been talk of a League 1 franchise been given to Ireland for over a decade. A few articles and forum posts but all talk no action. One thing for sure the sport wont expand in Ireland off a budget that would barely run a small GAA club in rural Ireland. That figure being around €50,000. 

I think this action is a power play by Australia and the NRL and is more about cutting votes than anything else.  I seriously doubt i will see Ireland at Rugby Leage World Cup again and much the pity it is as i have a lot of good memories watching the games.  I feel bad for the well meaning familes that put their heart and soul into Rugby League in Ireland and amoung emigrant communities. 

 

[Damien]

2 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

You think Wales are more obviously 'deserving' than France?

Both are deserving of being in a 10 team World Cup. The whole all 2021 quarter finalists qualifying automatically should have been changed to just semi-finalists once the World Cup was cut in numbers. 

Lebanon keeping their World Cup place is the unfair part of this. If they werent a Aussie based team then I doubt they would have.

[Barley Mow]

4 minutes ago, Damien said:

Both are deserving of being in a 10 team World Cup. The whole all 2021 quarter finalists qualifying automatically should have been changed to just semi-finalists once the World Cup was cut in numbers. 

Lebanon keeping their World Cup place is the unfair part of this. If they werent a Aussie based team then I doubt they would have.

I'm not sure what I think about reducing the number of qualifiers from the last world cup after the fact. Teams entered that world cup knowing that if they reached the quarter finals, they would qualify for the next one - it seems unfair to go back on that. That said, 8 out of 10 qualifying automatically is excessive (I wouldn't advocate more than the semi-finalists qualifying that way even for a 16 team world cup).

In terms of being 'deserving', I think that should be tested on the field - be that qualifying via the last world cup or through the qualifying competitions. I'm not sure what basis NRLandSL considers Wales to be deserving considering they didn't make the quarter finals of the last world cup and haven't played in the qualifiers yet.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Barley Mow said:

I'm not sure what I think about reducing the number of qualifiers from the last world cup after the fact. Teams entered that world cup knowing that if they reached the quarter finals, they would qualify for the next one - it seems unfair to go back on that. That said, 8 out of 10 qualifying automatically is excessive (I wouldn't advocate more than the semi-finalists qualifying that way even for a 16 team world cup).

In terms of being 'deserving', I think that should be tested on the field - be that qualifying via the last world cup or through the qualifying competitions. I'm not sure what basis NRLandSL considers Wales to be deserving considering they didn't make the quarter finals of the last world cup and haven't played in the qualifiers yet.

Teams went into the last World Cup thinking the next one was 16 teams. That reduction fundamentally changes everything. If we can change World Cup size then we certainly can change qualification too. Only 2 spots available for qualification is no where near enough in a 10 team World Cup.

[Damien]

On the full membership criteria it is actually pretty tame. It really shows how pathetic Ireland and Scotland have been when they can't meet this after 30 odd years.

I would actually like to see the IRL tighten this criteria up further and increase the domestic requirements when it comes to player numbers, teams and youth numbers. Used wisely it can really be used to incentivise nations to develop domestically and I hope the IRL continue with this approach that we are now seeing. 

Edited March 18 by Damien

[Barley Mow]

Just now, Damien said:

Teams went into the last World Cup thinking the next one was 16 teams. That reduction fundamentally changes everything. If we can change World Cup size then we certainly can change qualification too.

Although the plan was for a 16 team world cup in France, I don't think that was fixed as a certainty at that point. It was different with qualification because it had been definitively announced that the quarter finalists would qualify.

As I say, with a fairly drastic cut to 10 teams, I am conflicted on this point and recognise the merits of the case you're making.

Just now, Damien said:

Only 2 spots available for qualification is no where near enough in a 10 team World Cup.

I absolutely agree with that - hence my conflicted views.

[2blackrooks]

Can’t say I’m surprised or disappointed, from a Scottish point of view, hopefully this will give those in charge food for thought. 
On a junior level there is plenty of activity with a match against Serbia on the cards at u19s level with at least 5 local lads named in the squad. 
Interestingly I’m wondering how much the parachute payment is going to be, and this is going to help promote the game, I have asked the SRL for an update but as yet no answer.

Ive said this before, there is loads of interest in RL in Scotland to get a league up and running, but post central funding cancelling it’s gone down hill. 
We need a Scotland team with Scottish lads playing regular games 

[Whippet13]

Sad that there are 4 members out, but good news that potentially up to 7 new full members:

IRL Secretary -General Danny Kazandjian said other nations had applied to become full members.  “IRL currently has five good quality full member applications under evaluation and there are likely to be at least another two later this year,”

My guess at 4 of these are: Canada (adding youth RL this year I believe), Greece, Netherlands and USA. 

[corkonian77]

44 minutes ago, 2blackrooks said:

Can’t say I’m surprised or disappointed, from a Scottish point of view, hopefully this will give those in charge food for thought. 
On a junior level there is plenty of activity with a match against Serbia on the cards at u19s level with at least 5 local lads named in the squad. 
Interestingly I’m wondering how much the parachute payment is going to be, and this is going to help promote the game, I have asked the SRL for an update but as yet no answer.

Ive said this before, there is loads of interest in RL in Scotland to get a league up and running, but post central funding cancelling it’s gone down hill. 
We need a Scotland team with Scottish lads playing regular games 

€20,000 one guy said. That amount in Ireland like Scotland wouldn't go far. One part time worker would swallow that figure alone. 

All this at the cost of media attention and postive articles like below. 

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/2022/10/22/matt-williams-wolfhounds-are-a-team-worthy-of-irish-support/

[Gomersall]

1 hour ago, Whippet13 said:

Sad that there are 4 members out, but good news that potentially up to 7 new full members:

IRL Secretary -General Danny Kazandjian said other nations had applied to become full members.  “IRL currently has five good quality full member applications under evaluation and there are likely to be at least another two later this year,”

My guess at 4 of these are: Canada (adding youth RL this year I believe), Greece, Netherlands and USA. 

Do Greece have any youth teams? It’s news to me if they do.

[Damien]

40 minutes ago, corkonian77 said:

€20,000 one guy said. That amount in Ireland like Scotland wouldn't go far. One part time worker would swallow that figure alone. 

All this at the cost of media attention and postive articles like below. 

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/2022/10/22/matt-williams-wolfhounds-are-a-team-worthy-of-irish-support/

The biggest bugbear of mine is that Ireland wastes what little it has on trials and training in England and picking English players at u16s, u19s student and A team level.

I saw at first hand plenty of Irish lads in Tullamore and Dublin last year who wanted far more from Ireland Rugby League than they provided. They wanted more sessions and games even if it was amongst themselves. They didnt get them and many just gave up, disillusioned with a lack of sessions and the emphasis on English players. That is a complete failure by Ireland Rugby League and a dereliction of its core duty to develop the sport in Ireland.

Social media is littered with complaints from past players, coaches and volunteers (at least until they get deleted by Ireland Rugby League) about the Ireland Rugby League. I am so glad the IRL have called them out on this sham.

Edited March 18 by Damien

[corkonian77]

20 minutes ago, Damien said:

The biggest bugbear of mine is that Ireland wastes what little it has on trials and training in England and picking English players at u16s, u19s student and A team level.

I saw at first hand plenty of Irish lads in Tullamore and Dublin last year who wanted far more from Ireland Rugby League than they provided. They wanted more sessions and games even if it was amongst themselves. They didnt get them and many just gave up, disillusioned with a lack of sessions and the emphasis on English players. That is a complete failure by Ireland Rugby League and a dereliction of its core duty to develop the sport in Ireland.

Social media is littered with complaints from past players, coaches and volunteers (at least until they get deleted by Ireland Rugby League) about the Ireland Rugby League. I am so glad the IRL have called them out on this sham.

Focusing on English born Irish eligbile players at that level is a waste of time. Especially when they can declare for England at the drop of a hat. 

What you desribed would not happen in any other sport in Ireland.  I am sure that its great for England and Super League but doesnt do much for the sport in Ireland. 

The Rugby League Ireland website is constantly inactive. A website that has been barely updated since the Rugby League World Cup.  www.rli.ie. 

[Damien]

1 hour ago, corkonian77 said:

Focusing on English born Irish eligbile players at that level is a waste of time. Especially when they can declare for England at the drop of a hat. 

What you desribed would not happen in any other sport in Ireland.  I am sure that its great for England and Super League but doesnt do much for the sport in Ireland. 

The Rugby League Ireland website is constantly inactive. A website that has been barely updated since the Rugby League World Cup.  www.rli.ie. 

Ireland Rugby League absolutely shouldn't be taking the approach they do. This demotion proves that. It's the easy option and the pathetic thing is that Ireland laud results when their England E team do okay against an England D team. Its real administrators giving themselves a pat on the back for doing sweet FA stuff.

With the best will in the world the English players that Ireland are picking at these levels are largely the players that don't sign professional and don't get picked for England Community or Acadmeny teams. They come out with nonsense about pathways but bar a fluke these are not the lads who are going to be good enough at senior level anyway (when Ireland will just pick whatever professional heritage players anyway). If they are they will pick England.

The whole thing is a joke.

 

Edited March 18 by Damien

[Damien]

3 hours ago, Whippet13 said:

Sad that there are 4 members out, but good news that potentially up to 7 new full members:

IRL Secretary -General Danny Kazandjian said other nations had applied to become full members.  “IRL currently has five good quality full member applications under evaluation and there are likely to be at least another two later this year,”

My guess at 4 of these are: Canada (adding youth RL this year I believe), Greece, Netherlands and USA. 

Just on Canada as you mention it:

The Canada Rugby League Association (CRLA) and Iroquois Roots Rugby are pleased to announce today a new collaboration for youth that builds off of the success to date of this important Indigenous program.

As of today, Iroquois Roots Rugby’s age 4-12 youth program becomes a recognized club of the Canada Rugby League Association. Iroquois Roots runs a number of youth teams and camps, introducing the sport to children, and using sport to teach important lifelong values. Iroquois Roots has also established an outreach program to Indigenous reserves across Eastern Canada.

On today’s announcement, Melanie Squire, Co-founder of Iroquois Roots said “This partnership comes at an integral time for our Mini Rugby program, which continues to grow exponentially. The support of the CRLA will have a profound impact on our organization, and in turn, help us continue offering rugby in under-served areas in Canada.”

...

Iroquois Roots Youth registration takes place later this spring, with a full summer calendar planned. The CRLA will also be working with its domestic leagues, Rugby League BC (RLBC) and the Ontario RL (ORL) in launching four U-17 teams, which will compete in a national championship this fall.

https://europeanrugbyleague.com/articles/2392/canada-rugby-league-leapfrogs-developmen?fbclid=IwAR2zvgFyC_NqmfiJo6q6ph3rqmcNusNk5VKt5bkBSrbbd7DCZov5c4PsJTU

 

[corkonian77]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

Ireland Rugby League absolutely shouldn't be taking the approach they do. This demotion proves that. It's the easy option and the pathetic thing is that Ireland laud results when their England E team do okay against an England D team. Its real administrators giving themselves a pat on the back for doing sweet FA stuff.

With the best will in the world the English players that Ireland are picking at these levels are largely the players that don't sign professional and don't get picked for England Community or Acadmeny teams. They come out with nonsense about pathways but bar a fluke these are not the lads who are going to be good enough at senior level anyway (when Ireland will just pick whatever professional heritage players anyway). If they are they will pick England.

The whole thing is a joke.

 

I am completely at a loss. 

I was at the Ireland Under 20 Rugby Union hammer Scotland at home in front of 8,400 people. I state that because Ireland have dominated Rugby Union at that age grade in Europe for several years. 

With only 4 Provinical teams the system can not cope with the amount of talent coming through.  Up 75% of the these squads simply give up as they see no future if they don't get into the provincial union system.

My point being is that they are focusing on average lads in England  when talented Irish lads arent even contacted.

Edited March 18 by corkonian77

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, corkonian77 said:

I am completely at a loss. 

I was at the Ireland Under 20 Rugby Union hammer Scotland at home in front of 8,400 people. I state that because Ireland have dominated Rugby Union at that age grade in Europe for several years. 

With only 4 Provinical teams the system can not cope with the amount of talent coming through.  Up 75% of the these squads simply give up as they see no future if they don't get into the provincial union system.

My point being is that they are focusing on average lads in England  when talented Irish lads arent even contacted.

Yep, loads of talent across GAA and RU. As I said plenty of good players did attend the few sessions in Ireland. RL hasn't even scratched the surface of it.

[Sports Prophet]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

Yep, loads of talent across GAA and RU. As I said plenty of good players did attend the few sessions in Ireland. RL hasn't even scratched the surface of it.

I would hazard a guess an Irish RL combine for Euro u18s or u16s events would probably draw out a pretty talented squad of locals which with 4 weeks intense training, would be good enough to beat those English teams they traditionally pick.

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I would hazard a guess an Irish RL combine for Euro u18s or u16s events would probably draw out a pretty talented squad of locals which with 4 weeks intense training, would be good enough to beat those English teams they traditionally pick.

There were sessions in Ireland but too few and too sporadic. I think 4 weeks is a stretch to beat lads with RL smarts and experience. You also arent going to get a team of top notch talent for that anyway. Timing is also key.

The real issue is the governing body and its approach. That is the major barrier and obstacle. Decide to focus on youth development in Ireland, with Irish coaches and volunteers, and the rest can be worked out.

[NRLandSL]

15 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

You think Wales are more obviously 'deserving' than France?

No not what I meant at all, There’s still a European spot left which should be almost guaranteed taken by France.

Both France and Wales should be in the World Cup. There both far more deserving than any heritage nation.