Rugby League Internationals of England & GB in London in the last 50 years.

[marklaspalmas]

I put this table together.

27 October 1990 Great Britain 19  Australia 12 W Wembley Stadium, London 54,569 1990 Kangaroo tour of Great Britain and France 24 October 1992 Great Britain 6  Australia 10 L Wembley Stadium, London 73,631 1992 World Cup final 16 October 1993 Great Britain 17  New Zealand 0 W Wembley Stadium, London 36,131 1993 Kiwi tour of Great Britain and France 22 October 1994 Great Britain 8  Australia 4 W Wembley Stadium, London 57,034 1994 Kangaroo tour of Great Britain and France 7 October 1995  England 20  Australia 16 W Wembley Stadium, London 41,271 1995 World Cup 28 October 1995  England 8  Australia 16 L Wembley Stadium, London 66,540 1995 World Cup final 1 November 1997 Great Britain 14  Australia 38 L Wembley Stadium, London 41,135 1997 Super League Series 28 October 2000  England 2  Australia 22 L Twickenham Stadium, London 33,758 2000 World Cup 30 October 2005 Great Britain 26  New Zealand 42 L QPR FC, London 15,568 2005 Tri-Nations                   5 November 2011  England 20  Australia 36 L Wembley Stadium, London 42,344 2011 Four Nations 23 November 2013  England 18  New Zealand 20 L Wembley Stadium, London 67,545 2013 World Cup Semi-final 7 November 2015  England 2  New Zealand 9 L Olympic Stadium, London 44,393 2015 New Zealand Tour 13 November 2016  England 18  Australia 36 L Olympic Stadium, London 35,569 2016 Four Nations 12 November 2022  England 26  Samoa 27 L Arsenal FC, London 40,489 2022 World Cup Semi-final 25 October 2025  England ?  Australia ? ? Wembley Stadium, London ? 2025 Kangaroo tour of England and France

Edited April 24 by marklaspalmas
Updated

[Damien]

It tells us that internationals always do well and holding them there should be no brainer.

Note the England v Tonga game was effectively an England A game, with GB playing then, so I don't think it belongs here.

[langpark]

Is this a list of matches only involving Aus/GB? Because in 2004 Aus played NZ at Loftus Road in front of 16,725 fans. 

Again 2009 at the Stoop: 12,360

[marklaspalmas]

27 minutes ago, Damien said:

It tells us that internationals always do well and holding them there should be no brainer.

Note the England v Tonga game was effectively an England A game, with GB playing then, so I don't think it belongs here.

I did think about that, but hey, international in London it was, albeit out of synch with the others.

[JonM]

I was at all of those except the Twickenham one in 2000 (was also at the two Aus/NZ games mentioned by langpark).

The Federation Shield game was definitely England 'A', not a full international.

If we're counting non-GB/England games though, I also attended the Poland v Norway game at Ilford in 2022, and Greece v Scotland at New River in 2019. There may be others.

The 2013 semi-final was a double header with Australia v Fiji as well as England v NZ.

I might argue that Watford is part of London (inside the M25 after all), and that adds a couple more IIRC.

Edited April 24 by JonM

[marklaspalmas]

1 hour ago, langpark said:

Is this a list of matches only involving Aus/GB?

No, it's a list of matches only involving England/GB

[marklaspalmas]

2 hours ago, marklaspalmas said:

I put this table together.

27 October 1990 Great Britain 19  Australia 12 W Wembley Stadium, London 54,569 1990 Kangaroo tour of Great Britain and France 24 October 1992 Great Britain 6  Australia 10 L Wembley Stadium, London 73,631 1992 World Cup final 16 October 1993 Great Britain 17  New Zealand 0 W Wembley Stadium, London 36,131 1993 Kiwi tour of Great Britain and France 22 October 1994 Great Britain 8  Australia 4 W Wembley Stadium, London 57,034 1994 Kangaroo tour of Great Britain and France 7 October 1995  England 20  Australia 16 W Wembley Stadium, London 41,271 1995 World Cup 28 October 1995  England 8  Australia 16 L Wembley Stadium, London 66,540 1995 World Cup final 1 November 1997 Great Britain 14  Australia 38 L Wembley Stadium, London 41,135 1997 Super League Series 28 October 2000  England 2  Australia 22 L Twickenham Stadium, London 33,758 2000 World Cup 30 October 2005 Great Britain 26  New Zealand 42 L QPR FC, London 15,568 2005 Tri-Nations                   5 November 2011  England 20  Australia 36 L Wembley Stadium, London 42,344 2011 Four Nations 23 November 2013  England 18  New Zealand 20 L Wembley Stadium, London 67,545 2013 World Cup Semi-final 7 November 2015  England 2  New Zealand 9 L Olympic Stadium, London 44,393 2015 New Zealand Tour 13 November 2016  England 18  Australia 36 L Olympic Stadium, London 35,569 2016 Four Nations 12 November 2022  England 26  Samoa 27 L Arsenal FC, London 40,489 2022 World Cup Semi-final 25 October 2025  England ?  Australia ? ? Wembley Stadium, London ? 2025 Kangaroo tour of England and France

Very difficult to work out any overall strategy here, no surprises there I guess.

But nevertheless, healthy crowds at a variety of venues for a variety of competition formats.

[Exiled Wiganer]

In a different context, I was in a discussion yesterday as to the official international records. The Aussies (or, at least the ARL) may not count the SL one as an international. But the IRL do. I think I was at all of these, annd the Oz - NZ ones aside from the first 95 World Cup one. 

Edited April 24 by Exiled Wiganer

[marklaspalmas]

1 hour ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

In a different context, I was in a discussion yesterday as to the official international records. The Aussies (or, at least the ARL) may not count the SL one as an international. But the IRL do. I think I was at all of these, annd the Oz - NZ ones aside from the first 95 World Cup one. 

My understanding was they (Australia) didn't but now they do count the SL games as internationals, albeit in a separate category.

[Damien]

4 hours ago, marklaspalmas said:

Very difficult to work out any overall strategy here, no surprises there I guess.

But nevertheless, healthy crowds at a variety of venues for a variety of competition formats.

Not sure if it is that difficult. Pre the SL split there was a clear strategy in the early 90s with the Wembley, Old Trafford and Elland Road trio for the big tours which continued for the first couple of years of SL. This went awry in the 2000s with some poor GB/England performances and the disastrous 2000 World Cup and we spent a good decade playing safe. In the 2010s we again pushed London again by taking games there until Covid put a stop to it as well as the apathy towards the international game since then not helping.

Edited April 24 by Damien

[marklaspalmas]

13 minutes ago, Damien said:

Not sure if it is that difficult. Pre the SL split there was a clear strategy in the early 90s with the Wembley, Old Trafford and Elland Road trio for the big tours which continued for the first couple of years of SL. This went awry in the 2000s with some poor GB/England performances and the disastrous 2000 World Cup and we spent a good decade playing safe. In the 2010s we again pushed London again by taking games there until Covid put a stop to it as well as the apathy towards the international game since then not helping.

Gently sidestepped how disastrous SL was for international RL, but if you can make a clear strategy out of that list, well done.

[Damien]

17 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

Gently sidestepped how disastrous SL was for international RL, but if you can make a clear strategy out of that list, well done.

I did. The times when we haven't had games in London I've explained. Other years without games have largely been because the Aussies haven't toured. I don't necessarily agree with the way things gave been done, and have often bemoaned not taking lesser games there too like France, Tonga and Samoa, but for me its been due to a failing when it comes to international RL generally and a lack of a decent calendar particularly over the last decade or so.

Im not sure I sidesteped anything. I wasnt aware I was meant to remember everything. I don't disagree that SL was bad for international RL so if it makes you better you can add that to the reasons too. 

Edited April 24 by Damien

[marklaspalmas]

19 minutes ago, Damien said:

I did. The times when we haven't had games in London I've explained. Other years without games have largely been because the Aussies haven't toured. I don't necessarily agree with the way things gave been done, and have often bemoaned not taking lesser games there too like France, Tonga and Samoa, but for me its been due to a failing when it comes to international RL generally and a lack of a decent calendar particularly over the last decade or so.

Im not sure I sidesteped anything. I wasnt aware I was meant to remember everything. I don't disagree that SL was bad for international RL so if it makes you better you can add that to the reasons too. 

Chill. You don't need to make me feel better. I didn't realise your conversational style was so competitive.

You see a strategy. I see various approaches and some half baked ideas with no continuity. No biggie.

There's been some cracking events though, and the crowd numbers have always been decent 

Twickers was a huge no no for me.

[Damien]

21 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

Chill. You don't need to make me feel better. I didn't realise your conversational style was so competitive.

You see a strategy. I see various approaches and some half baked ideas with no continuity. No biggie.

There's been some cracking events though, and the crowd numbers have always been decent 

Twickers was a huge no no for me.

I am mate, just don't get what I was sidestepping and was trying to give my thoughts as to why I don't think it's that clear cut. I think your point about the effects of SL is a great example of why it is a little more nuanced as to why we havent always played games there. I'm not even particularly disagreeing with you, I just think the cause is a little different, and I have often bemoaned the lack of London games on here. I certainly would be playing there every year if we could.

I'm not defending what has happened but just think a lack of games has been the prime reason for the gaps rather than a lack of strategy per se. I do think there has generally been a strategy to take an Australia game to London when they play here. We'd have played in London in 2020 if it wasnt for Covid and we are playing this year. I do think there has been some willingness, to a much lesser extent, to take what the RFL think can be sold as a big game like the odd NZ 4 Nations game and World Cup semi finals too. Beyond that nothing as the RFL obviously arent confident of getting a crowd and cant afford the risk. I certainly think if we had the regular cycle of tours as in the 1990s or 4 Nations of old then we'd have had more London games. That to me is the core issue.

I agree on Twickers.

Edited April 24 by Damien

[marklaspalmas]

48 minutes ago, Damien said:

I am mate, just don't get what I was sidestepping and was trying to give my thoughts as to why I don't think it's that clear cut. I think your point about the effects of SL is a great example of why it is a little more nuanced as to why we havent always played games there. I'm not even particularly disagreeing with you, I just think the cause is a little different, and I have often bemoaned the lack of London games on here. I certainly would be playing there every year if we could.

I'm not defending what has happened but just think a lack of games has been the prime reason for the gaps rather than a lack of strategy per se. I do think there has generally been a strategy to take an Australia game to London when they play here. We'd have played in London in 2020 if it wasnt for Covid and we are playing this year. I do think there has been some willingness, to a much lesser extent, to take what the RFL think can be sold as a big game like the odd NZ 4 Nations game and World Cup semi finals too. Beyond that nothing as the RFL obviously arent confident of getting a crowd and cant afford the risk. I certainly think if we had the regular cycle of tours as in the 1990s or 4 Nations of old then we'd have had more London games. That to me is the core issue.

I agree on Twickers.

Fair play, I largely agree with what you've put here. Let's hope the autumn series is the re-start of regular encounters with Australia, and gives the RFL the confidence to put Wembley (or wherever) back on the agenda for regular international RL.

[Damien]

41 minutes ago, marklaspalmas said:

Fair play, I largely agree with what you've put here. Let's hope the autumn series is the re-start of regular encounters with Australia, and gives the RFL the confidence to put Wembley (or wherever) back on the agenda for regular international RL.

Hopefully, I truly believe this series can be transformative and can change the Aussies mindset towards the international game. Big crowds and big profits can go a long way, as could an England Ashes win!

Edited April 24 by Damien