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#1 nec

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 03:07 PM

Initially, several mergers between existing clubs were proposed:

1. Castleford, Wakefield Trinity and Featherstone Rovers would form Calder
2. Hull FC and Hull Kingston Rovers would form Hull"
3. Whitehaven, Workington Town, Barrow and Carlisle would form Cumbria
4. Warrington and Widnes were to form Cheshire
5. Salford and Oldham were to form Manchester
6. Sheffield and Doncaster were to form South Yorkshire

They were to be included with the following stand-alone clubs: St Helens, Wigan, Leeds, Bradford Northern, Halifax, London, Paris and Toulouse.


Which of these would have been better than the current situation for clubs in that area and which will eventually happen anyway?

In my opinion 3, 5 and 6 are arguably better than what we have now in those areas

In my opinion 1, a version of 3 and 6 may well eventually happen to get a club into SL from those areas as Wakey & Cas are stymied by a lack of decent stadium and the Marras go ahead without the other 2 listed (who ironically merged 11 years ago).

The ludicrous petition and associated threads made me curious.

I would suggest the winners from this NOT happening as planned have been Wire Hull FC & HKR, all of which have gone on to be successful on their own.

Just to add, Halifax & Toulouse may well get back to where they were envisaged in 1995 in the next round of licences

Edited by nec, 21 July 2010 - 03:14 PM.

Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#2 Bulletproof

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 03:13 PM

QUOTE (nec @ Jul 21 2010, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Initially, several mergers between existing clubs were proposed:

1. Castleford, Wakefield Trinity and Featherstone Rovers would form Calder
2. Hull FC and Hull Kingston Rovers would form Hull"
3. Whitehaven, Workington Town, Barrow and Carlisle would form Cumbria
4. Warrington and Widnes were to form Cheshire
5. Salford and Oldham were to form Manchester
6. Sheffield and Doncaster were to form South Yorkshire

They were to be included with the following stand-alone clubs: St Helens, Wigan, Leeds, Bradford Northern, Halifax, London, Paris and Toulouse.


Which of these would have been better than the current situation for clubs in that area and which will eventually happen anyway?

In my opinion 3, 5 and 6 are arguably better than what we have now in those areas

In my opinion 1, a version of 3 and 6 may well eventually happen to get a club into SL from those areas as Wakey & Cas are stymied by a lack of decent stadium and the Marras go ahead without the other 2 listed (who ironically merged 11 years ago).

The ludicrous petition and associated threads made me curious.

I would suggest the winners from this NOT happening as planned have been Wire Hull FC & HKR, all of which have gone on to be successful on their own.


They have yet to ever work in rugby league and I doubt they ever will. Inevitably, you get a weaker partner who is phased out. If the two teams have a long history of 100 years they have identities which are too valuable and too strong to remove from the hearts of their fans completely. All you do is anger people and create one club which together is weaker than two seperate teams are apart. I think super league needs to be more realistic about what a club needs to be and not sacrifice long term entities for short term gains.

#3 EastLondonMike

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 03:17 PM

doesnt help that many RL clubs are just towns.. and any mergers or creation of new clubs would result in alienating fans or risk the support base being spread too thin. tough one.. i think the next round of franchises will force some clubs and fans to make some tough decisions.

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#4 BBR

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 04:46 PM

Where are Huddersfield in your plan?

#5 bowes

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 05:04 PM

QUOTE (BBR @ Jul 21 2010, 05:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Where are Huddersfield in your plan?

It's not his plan, it was the original RFL one. Huddersfield weren't a big club at the time and were intended to survive as a standalone club in the First Division.

The worst idea there was including Barrow in with the other Cumbrian sides, though at the time they were on their last legs (before 'merging' with Carlisle) so I suppose made some sense, but geographically would fail

#6 Trojan

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 05:57 PM

QUOTE (nec @ Jul 21 2010, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Initially, several mergers between existing clubs were proposed:

1. Castleford, Wakefield Trinity and Featherstone Rovers would form Calder
2. Hull FC and Hull Kingston Rovers would form Hull"
3. Whitehaven, Workington Town, Barrow and Carlisle would form Cumbria
4. Warrington and Widnes were to form Cheshire
5. Salford and Oldham were to form Manchester
6. Sheffield and Doncaster were to form South Yorkshire

They were to be included with the following stand-alone clubs: St Helens, Wigan, Leeds, Bradford Northern, Halifax, London, Paris and Toulouse.


Which of these would have been better than the current situation for clubs in that area and which will eventually happen anyway?

In my opinion 3, 5 and 6 are arguably better than what we have now in those areas

In my opinion 1, a version of 3 and 6 may well eventually happen to get a club into SL from those areas as Wakey & Cas are stymied by a lack of decent stadium and the Marras go ahead without the other 2 listed (who ironically merged 11 years ago).

The ludicrous petition and associated threads made me curious.

I would suggest the winners from this NOT happening as planned have been Wire Hull FC & HKR, all of which have gone on to be successful on their own.

Just to add, Halifax & Toulouse may well get back to where they were envisaged in 1995 in the next round of licences



But who will pay through the gate to watch them? The antipathy between Cas and Fev is well known, as is that in Hull.
But a similar feeling exists between Whitehaven and Workington - I used to work with a lad from Whitehaven - he had no time at all for the "jameaters" I used to tease him by calling him one - he was not amused.
You could merge Sheffield and Doncaster without much trouble - but I bet you still couldn't come up with SL sized crowds.

I don't think there's much love lost between Wire and Widnes either.

The only way these could have been made to work is that if one or other of the mergees went out of existence then perhaps there might be some mileage in it but I doubt it.

I used to know a Bradford City fan, his wife and her family had supported Park Avenue but even twenty years after they dropped out the league there was no way they'd be seen dead at Valley Parade.


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#7 Sleeper

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 08:16 PM

I was and am pro merger.

Much was said at the time, and reiterated now of the junior partner being swallowed up, reality is all parties would have been swallowed up.

Mergers are nothing new to business, RL is a business!

I will wager now that had mergers taken place, parochial issues wouldnt be spoke about 15 years later.

Allround result is, Oldham, Fev, Whitehaven, Workington, Carlilse, Widnes, Sheffield, Doncaster are watching an inferior product or are dead (Carlilse), of course many out there watching the inferior stuff will claim to be happy with what they have ................... therein the problem!

Until something better comes along, this life will have to do

#8 Jill Halfpenny fan

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 08:17 PM

Believed at the time it was dreamt up on the back of a fag packet.

The way it panned out has given me little cause to reconsider.
Just because you think everyone hates you doesn't mean they don't.

#9 BringBacktheBiff

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 08:40 PM

QUOTE (Bulletproof @ Jul 21 2010, 04:13 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
They have yet to ever work in rugby league and I doubt they ever will. Inevitably, you get a weaker partner who is phased out. If the two teams have a long history of 100 years they have identities which are too valuable and too strong to remove from the hearts of their fans completely. All you do is anger people and create one club which together is weaker than two seperate teams are apart. I think super league needs to be more realistic about what a club needs to be and not sacrifice long term entities for short term gains.

So the Balmain/ Western Suburbs merger didnt work did it? The Wests Tigers are one of the best teams in the NRL, great fan base and won the premiership in '05. I think the Cumbrian team and SOuth Yorkshire team would be a success in SL.

#10 1976PMJwires

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 08:44 PM

poss new merger St.Widnes tongue.gif laugh.gif
===================


the Saints new ground to be the biggest Tesco in the world.... wacko.gif ........sssshhhh its a secret. wub.gif
sponsor are carlsberg. ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif

#11 Cruncher

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:14 PM

QUOTE (Sleeper @ Jul 21 2010, 09:16 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Mergers are nothing new to business, RL is a business!

I will wager now that had mergers taken place, parochial issues wouldnt be spoke about 15 years later.


Couldn't disagree more.

Come on, Rugby League is far more than a business! Anyway, what business would contemplate alienating its hardcore customers?

Mergers would inevitably lead to "parochial" fans being lost to the game. Over time some of the tribal allegiance may fade and a few may filter back to watch the merged entity (especially if they are sucessful) but can RL afford to lose any fans at all?



#12 Keith T

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:28 PM

QUOTE (Trojan @ Jul 21 2010, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But who will pay through the gate to watch them? The antipathy between Cas and Fev is well known, as is that in Hull.
But a similar feeling exists between Whitehaven and Workington - I used to work with a lad from Whitehaven - he had no time at all for the "jameaters" I used to tease him by calling him one - he was not amused.
You could merge Sheffield and Doncaster without much trouble - but I bet you still couldn't come up with SL sized crowds.

I don't think there's much love lost between Wire and Widnes either.

The only way these could have been made to work is that if one or other of the mergees went out of existence then perhaps there might be some mileage in it but I doubt it.

I used to know a Bradford City fan, his wife and her family had supported Park Avenue but even twenty years after they dropped out the league there was no way they'd be seen dead at Valley Parade.


Trojan, sadly it is the pathetic childish attitude of your friend and others who spend more time calling each other "jameaters" without knowing who is or isn't a "jameater" that has and still is holding back rugby league at a professional level in west Cumbria.

I still don't know how people can assume that one club will be weaker than two mediocre struggling clubs!!! In west Cumbria more people have actually walked away from the game altogether than go to watch both Town and Haven in total. But still we listen to the "over my dead body" people.

I remember when .............................

"It is impossible not to feel a twinge of sympathy for Workington Town, the fall guys this season for the Super League's determination to retain it's European dimension, in the shape of Paris. While the French have had every assistance to survive, the importance of having a flagship in a heartland area like West Cumbria has been conveniently forgotten." - Dave Hadfield - Independent 25th August 1996.


#13 Bulletproof

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:28 PM

QUOTE (BringBacktheBiff @ Jul 21 2010, 09:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
So the Balmain/ Western Suburbs merger didnt work did it? The Wests Tigers are one of the best teams in the NRL, great fan base and won the premiership in '05. I think the Cumbrian team and SOuth Yorkshire team would be a success in SL.


I've got some shocking news for you: This isn't Australia. We do things differently here. The fans are different, the sporting climate is different, and the sooner the people in charge of this sport realise that fact this sport can get over its fascination with beating the aussies at a game they are much more interested in.

Mergers have never ever worked in this country. They've tried and failed. We are dicing with the health of our game in two towns where it currently exists to a decent degree for a short term gain, and there wouldnt be this ridiculous scramble to ensure top flight rugby were there a fair and equitable way of achieving top flight status and a chance for every team to manage it.

#14 Padge

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:36 PM

Interestingly most of the clubs who it was suggested merge are still struggling.



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#15 Jill Halfpenny fan

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:45 PM

QUOTE (Padge @ Jul 21 2010, 10:36 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Interestingly most of the clubs who it was suggested merge are still struggling.


Interestingly, so are most of those it was suggested should stand alone.


Just because you think everyone hates you doesn't mean they don't.

#16 Padge

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:46 PM

QUOTE (Jill Halfpenny fan @ Jul 21 2010, 10:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Interestingly, so are most of those it was suggested should stand alone.

Yes true, because the other ones are holding them back.

Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#17 nec

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 09:58 PM

QUOTE (Bulletproof @ Jul 21 2010, 10:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've got some shocking news for you: This isn't Australia. We do things differently here. The fans are different, the sporting climate is different, and the sooner the people in charge of this sport realise that fact this sport can get over its fascination with beating the aussies at a game they are much more interested in.

Mergers have never ever worked in this country. They've tried and failed. We are dicing with the health of our game in two towns where it currently exists to a decent degree for a short term gain, and there wouldnt be this ridiculous scramble to ensure top flight rugby were there a fair and equitable way of achieving top flight status and a chance for every team to manage it.

Computer's just crashed & I've lost the links but you can google them yourself

Inverness Caledonian Thistle
Rushden & Diamonds
Dagenham & Redbridge

in case you think this is just a modern phenomenon

Carlisle United
Newcastle united

Welsh regional rugby union
Leeds Carnegie
London Irish

I think it does happen here
Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

#18 Padge

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 10:01 PM

QUOTE (nec @ Jul 21 2010, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Computer's just crashed & I've lost the links but you can google them yourself

Inverness Caledonian Thistle
Rushden & Diamonds
Dagenham & Redbridge

in case you think this is just a modern phenomenon

Carlisle United
Newcastle united

Welsh regional rugby union
Leeds Carnegie
London Irish

I think it does happen here

Wigan Wasps & Highfield



Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com
Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007
Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king"

 

This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits.


#19 Bulletproof

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 10:11 PM

QUOTE (nec @ Jul 21 2010, 10:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Computer's just crashed & I've lost the links but you can google them yourself

Inverness Caledonian Thistle
Rushden & Diamonds
Dagenham & Redbridge

in case you think this is just a modern phenomenon

Carlisle United
Newcastle united

Welsh regional rugby union
Leeds Carnegie
London Irish

I think it does happen here


I'm confused. Which of those are top flight english rugby league clubs?


#20 Trojan

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Posted 21 July 2010 - 10:14 PM

QUOTE (Keith T @ Jul 21 2010, 10:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Trojan, sadly it is the pathetic childish attitude of your friend and others who spend more time calling each other "jameaters" without knowing who is or isn't a "jameater" that has and still is holding back rugby league at a professional level in west Cumbria.

I still don't know how people can assume that one club will be weaker than two mediocre struggling clubs!!! In west Cumbria more people have actually walked away from the game altogether than go to watch both Town and Haven in total. But still we listen to the "over my dead body" people.

Well perhaps you can explain it to the residents of Workington and Whitehaven and persuade them to pay out their money to watch a merged team.
When you've done that you can have a go at Hull & Hull Kr, and Cas and Fev. If you succeed, I recommend that you offer your services to the Palestians and Israelis.

"This is a very wealthy country, money is no object" D. Cameron February 2014





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