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#41 RP London

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 07:54 AM

QUOTE (Blind side johnny @ Aug 19 2010, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Would losing Quins/London RLFC be such a disaster for the sport (as against for their fans)?


disaster no

bad yes...

disatster is a strong word, supre league would have to learn to cope without the possible extra tv money that arguably london brings in.. the presnece in London at the moment would not be missed but the if they were to get the next incarnation right or they were to get quins right then the presences and what they can add s huge.

It would potentially be a disaster for RL in London which in turn would be bad for the sport as a whole and would mean it taking a big backward step. It would need to be very very well managed in london without a super league club and with only skolars as club for players to aspire to.

the junior work at Quins/London RLFC is truley aout 8-10 years old.. when you look at the quality of junior coming torugh at the moment from a non RL area that has only had 8-10 years of proper youth development going for it then it is doing fantastically well and shows what could happen. Michael Worrincy at Bradford, Rob Worrincy at Halifax, Will sharp going to HUll, LMS arguably one of hte best props in the country, Tony Clubb England international, Jamie O'Callaghan, Olsi Krasniqui, Lamont Bryan all looking far from out of hteir depth in the super league. None of these kids would be playing if it wasnt for hte junior work being done throughout London and then the Super league club to take them under their wing. All of these kids will help underpin Super League sides they are not just tokens.

disaster is a strong word but it certainly would cause issues, it would also possibly cause the loss of a very good possible region for future players which opens up a large potential pool..

It may well not if properly managed but it is a huge risk, and if Quins or whatever they would be called got it right it would be huge..

#42 Agbrigg

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 08:00 AM

QUOTE (THE RED ROOSTER @ Aug 18 2010, 07:30 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Its a reasonable assumption that if rumours of a move to MK Dons were true it would have leaked on the MK Dons forum. It appears not to have
http://www.mkdonsforum.org/
Considering the position Wakefield are in perhaps someone has an ulterior motive for starting this rumour wink.gif
.


This was all started by players and their agents. They are using this as a contract get out clause and touting their services to M62 clubs.

#43 The Future is League

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 08:18 AM

QUOTE (Blind side johnny @ Aug 19 2010, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Would losing Quins/London RLFC be such a disaster for the sport (as against for their fans)?


just a word of warning here. its already been said by someone at Red Hall that without a Super League club in London the last TV deal would have been less. if fans of Super League clubs are prepared for their clubs to take a cut in TV money because they don't want a Super League in Club in London then so be it. if fans of Super League clubs think they will get a good a deal without a Super League club in London they are deluded.

#44 gingerjon

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 08:32 AM

QUOTE (Blind side johnny @ Aug 19 2010, 08:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Would losing Quins/London RLFC be such a disaster for the sport (as against for their fans)?


Given that we're not overflowing with clubs at any level of the game the demise of any team is a disaster.
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#45 Chronicler of Chiswick

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 08:49 AM

It seems that no-one here apart from me watched 'Boot 'n All' last night where Stevo said that he'd rung David Hughes yesterday afternoon and asked him if he could guarantee the Quins would be around in 2011 and he replied 'no'. Thing are looking more than a little grim in London now.

#46 EastLondonMike

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 08:49 AM

i think a move to brisbane road would be a good one, although not sure about the pitch size. Barry hearn would be a good person to be involved if it was doing well, but is the type of person to walk away at the first sign of trouble.

the olympic stadium would no doubt be the most expensive to rent, but could maybe put any new London RL club bases at brisbane road in a position to take a few of the big games there (you can actually see the stadium from brisbane road).. and west ham will only be renting the stadium. West ham might not want to portray this to their fans, but i know it to be true.

so it would be possible to use it for RL games.

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#47 gingerjon

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 08:53 AM

QUOTE (Chronicler of Chiswick @ Aug 19 2010, 09:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It seems that no-one here apart from me watched 'Boot 'n All' last night where Stevo said that he'd rung David Hughes yesterday afternoon and asked him if he could guarantee the Quins would be around in 2011 and he replied 'no'.


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#48 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 10:06 AM

Why don't they use the Crusaders model? (OK, it's hardly a model, but here me out...)

Move the franchise to another ground, and leave a semi-pro club in its wake. So if they move to Oxford, than Harlequins Rugby League could start again like South Wales Scorpions and build from there. It's a way to keep the interest that was generated (however small) and if there is potential, then no doubt it can grow from there.

There doesn't need to be a pro club in London IMO. There needs to be one in the south to take advantage of the player development going on there, but it doesn't have to necessarily be IN London.
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#49 thirteenthman

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 10:19 AM

QUOTE (Chronicler of Chiswick @ Aug 19 2010, 09:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It seems that no-one here apart from me watched 'Boot 'n All' last night where Stevo said that he'd rung David Hughes yesterday afternoon and asked him if he could guarantee the Quins would be around in 2011 and he replied 'no'. Thing are looking more than a little grim in London now.

Yeah I saw that. It follows on from Stevo's near weekly piece alluding to this in his LE column. I would imagine David Hughes wouldn't have said something like that to a TV presenter, even off the record, unless he was serious. The biggest worry if the Quins go under is what would happen to the development programme. The RFL could carry on, but what incentive is there for young London lads without a top level team to play for? The RFU would be rubbing their hands with glee at the prospect of all those juniors suddenly looking for somewhere to go.

Stevo was bang on about people in the north who wouldn't care if London was lost to SL. There's enough of them on here. But still, as long as it gives another team from the Championship a chance at SL, who cares? Unbelievable.



#50 Agbrigg

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 10:37 AM

QUOTE (thirteenthman @ Aug 19 2010, 11:19 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Stevo was bang on about people in the north who wouldn't care if London was lost to SL. There's enough of them on here. But still, as long as it gives another team from the Championship a chance at SL, who cares? Unbelievable.


I for one feel that a London club is very important. Also from what I hear the financial situation at Crusaders is not that good either and there could be doubts about their future also. I don't think the RFL can financially back both clubs but they should do all they can to stick by a club in the capital. However thats where it should be located and not in the Midlands.

#51 Blind side johnny

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 10:45 AM

I'm not against RL in London - in fact i would be delighted were it to succeed. My point is what is so talismanic about London?

There are no pro RL clubs in Birmingham, Liverpool, Bristol etc but London is now regarded as a must-have for RL. I understand all of the original logic regarding the media base etc but cannot accept that having had a struggling pro RL club there has benefited the pro game. We are in danger of simply following a mantra as a logical reason why something has to be.

I also accept the argument that the last Sky contract wouldn't have been as good without a London presence. So the challenge surely is to make the product so valuable to Sky that they wouldn't want to lose it London or not, rather than wring hands about whether they wiill offer enough next time around.

I hope that there is a successful future for pro RL in London for next season and beyond but the arguments about why it must be are misguided.

Edited by Blind side johnny, 19 August 2010 - 03:23 PM.

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#52 burke

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 11:03 AM

Interesting thread this, with some good points made. I take the point made about Cumbria but would note that Cumbia has had a long history of RL with many well established amateur clubs that thrive with or without a SL club. My concern is that the amateur clubs and junior RL set up in London will wither without a SL club in London.

For what its worth, without doubt in my mind the RL / SL should some how force SL on Cumbria, not sure how it should be done but Cumbria is a hot bed of RL and it makes no sense for SL not to to be represented in Cumbria.

Wellys4Hullfc, I take your point re the Crusaders model, but the rumours from Wales are equally concerning. I understand that that the Wrexham football club ` owners ` may be very concerned re their financial plight. They agreed to take on last years loss / debt from the South Wales operation, big mistake, was it reported at 800,000 ?
Even with the SL/ RL apparently paying Nobel / Ferres / Sharp and Harris wages this years trading loss is even greater. How long will the ` owners ` sustain these losses. Is there a Sugar Daddy at the Crusaders ?

It seems that the RL / SL will not go all the away when expanding the game. We need the game to grow and expand in new areas but somehow the games leaders seem unable to create the framework for some of the projects to work. Catalans seems to work , what can we learn from their experience. Should the RL / SL bite the bullet and just write off the London and Crusaders debts and guarentee say a 6 year SL licence in order to save the projects.

#53 RP London

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 11:25 AM

QUOTE (Chronicler of Chiswick @ Aug 19 2010, 08:49 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It seems that no-one here apart from me watched 'Boot 'n All' last night where Stevo said that he'd rung David Hughes yesterday afternoon and asked him if he could guarantee the Quins would be around in 2011 and he replied 'no'. Thing are looking more than a little grim in London now.


yes i did see that but i also saw about 2 seconds later when john wells said that david hugh said he is looking forward to facing mcdermott next year..

I thikn the operative word in the whole stevo thing was "Quins"... stevo sensationalising something.. never..

i wouldnt be at all suprised to see no "Quins" but i would be suprised to see no london or south eastern team.

#54 Chronicler of Chiswick

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 02:22 PM

QUOTE (RP London @ Aug 19 2010, 12:25 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
yes i did see that but i also saw about 2 seconds later when john wells said that david hugh said he is looking forward to facing mcdermott next year..

I thikn the operative word in the whole stevo thing was "Quins"... stevo sensationalising something.. never..

i wouldnt be at all suprised to see no "Quins" but i would be suprised to see no london or south eastern team.

David Hughes's remark about facing Brian McDemott was made when BM's departure was announced, Stevo's conversation with him was shortly before 'Boots 'n All' was transmitted/recorded (don't know if it goes out live). Also the off camera real Stevo is an experienced RL journalist whom I don't see risking antagonising his source for a bit of sensationalising on a little watched programme.

#55 RP London

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 02:27 PM

QUOTE (Chronicler of Chiswick @ Aug 19 2010, 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
David Hughes's remark about facing Brian McDemott was made when BM's departure was announced, Stevo's conversation with him was shortly before 'Boots 'n All' was transmitted/recorded (don't know if it goes out live). Also the off camera real Stevo is an experienced RL journalist whom I don't see risking antagonising his source for a bit of sensationalising on a little watched programme.


as i said i think the operative word is "quins"..



#56 westlondonfan

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Posted 19 August 2010 - 07:40 PM

QUOTE (Wellsy4HullFC @ Aug 19 2010, 11:06 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Why don't they use the Crusaders model? (OK, it's hardly a model, but here me out...)

Move the franchise to another ground, and leave a semi-pro club in its wake. So if they move to Oxford, than Harlequins Rugby League could start again like South Wales Scorpions and build from there. It's a way to keep the interest that was generated (however small) and if there is potential, then no doubt it can grow from there.

There doesn't need to be a pro club in London IMO. There needs to be one in the south to take advantage of the player development going on there, but it doesn't have to necessarily be IN London.


I am getting the feeling that this may be the likely scenario. I hope not as I live not that far from the stoop. Maybe if they are going to move from the stoop they could move to a smaller football stadium in London?

Edited by westlondonfan, 19 August 2010 - 07:49 PM.


#57 gingerjon

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 06:10 AM

QUOTE (westlondonfan @ Aug 19 2010, 08:40 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Maybe if they are going to move from the stoop they could move to a smaller football stadium in London?


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#58 THE RED ROOSTER

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 06:31 AM

IMO it's time for the RFL to ask Quins - what are your intentions ?
To remain in Super League and apply for a licence post 2012 relocated / renamed or not
To follow Gateshead's example and voluntarily drop to the Championship
To fold as economically unviable
The RFL also in view of David Hughes reputed 7 milion loss on his involvement in the club over the years need to be assured that if either of the first two options are chosen then sufficient funding is in place to ensure a competitive club. The essential due diligence process not followed with Leighton Samuels.
The current uncertainty surrounding the club - and it does not look good - is damaging for Rugby League as a sport.
If the first option is taken then where and with whom are the club playing and as what?.
If it is option 2 or option 3, then Widnes need to have the time to put together a competitive side to compete in Super League 2011.This of course may still not save the Calder clubs come 2012 but that's a different thread.
It will also allow the RFL the opportunity to manage the media fallout to a degree if they have prior knowledge.
Some points you may wish to use or add to in your RLE opinion piece next week Mr Sadler ?

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#59 westlondonfan

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 06:44 AM

QUOTE (gingerjon @ Aug 20 2010, 07:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>


Cheers!

#60 getdownmonkeyman

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Posted 20 August 2010 - 09:58 AM

Does anybody know the reasoning behing leaving Brentford? From memory crowds, and success seemed pretty good there.