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Why are Foorward Passes ignored?


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37 replies to this topic

#21 Blind side johnny

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 02:15 PM

QUOTE (UnionMan @ Aug 22 2010, 06:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Watched some very good games on the tv over recent weeks but crucial tries have been scored from blatant Forward passes.
Its often hard for the ref as he is 10M back but it seems that the linesmen have been deliberatlely instructed to ignore them as I've hardly seem one given all season by them.
PS I do understand the momentum rule before we start



Touch judges (not linesmen) can't flag for forward passes but do indicate to the referee when they believe that a pass was forward. These signals will often not be noticed by spectators. The referee chooses whether or not he takes any notice of such signals so, as in all cases, it is his decision to award one or not.

There always were forward passes but they occur (apparently) more often nowadays because the game is very much faster and they can be difficult to detect. In addition a flat pass is often a useful tool in opening up a defence so I'm sure that it's coached to some extent.

Referees say that they watch the angle of the hands/wrists as the clearest indicator of whether or not a pass was forward.


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#22 Lobbygobbler

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 02:17 PM

It is a complete joke nowadays. We always mocked Union for this but now we are as bad. Many passes are even forward relative to the players. Perhaps they should toughen the rule up and bet bout the momentum rule and make players pass relatibe to the pitch/fans (i.e. by throwing it backwards at a steeper angle). It is after all fans who pay the money

I think it is time to introduce the video ref even if it can only be used for the final pass

Don't see whay it is any different to chalking off a try from a kick like the ultra marginal Crusdaders "try" from half way against Stains

#23 Wellsy4HullFC

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 03:04 PM

QUOTE (deluded pom? @ Aug 23 2010, 10:30 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It's a no win situation for the ref but what I can't get my head around is the fact that we can't use the VR for forward passes because camera angles can be misleading but we CAN use the VR to determine onside/offside with those same camera angles. huh.gif

Because offside is in relation to the pitch, and forward passes are in relation to the player.

With offside, you can tell where the ball is in relation to the pitch because that player is stood on the pitch. All you need to do is see if the other player is stood behind him by working out how close they are to the nearest line.

With forward passes it's not so simple. If the camera is at a different angle, the pass looks hugely forward when in fact it could be backwards. The players are often not on the ground when these things occur (like when there is a chip to the corner and it is passed in the air, etc). And that's before we even bring in the momentum rule, where it's nearly impossible to work out the momentum of the ball before it is passed and whether that has affected why it has travelled forward.

We need HawkEye technology for that sort of thing!
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#24 chrisl1

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 04:34 PM

As has been said the number of forward passes in the game which are ignored is a joke. It seems now that the only time a forward pass is given is when the ref is abe to see it otherwise it will go unpunished.

#25 Just Browny

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 04:45 PM

QUOTE (chrisl1 @ Aug 23 2010, 05:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
It seems now that the only time a forward pass is given is when the ref is abe to see it otherwise it will go unpunished.


Agreed, we need to go back to the days when refs gave forward passes they hadn't seen.

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#26 3owls

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 05:27 PM

Two of the great forward passers of our generation will be leaving superleague at the end of the season, Messrs Cunningham and Riddell. Have you ever wondered why St Helens score so many tries from close range, it's because the attacking player is receiving the ball past the defending player who is unable to tackle him before he has received the forward pass, a la James Graham in the challenge cup semi. Riddell at Wigan is also an arch exponent of the short forward pass that goes unpunished from bottleless referees who would be quick to penalise a "lesser" name. It's pointless being honest in a dishonest league therefore more teams are adding the intentional forward pass to their armoury. It's a shame but the teams that don't evolve won't compete on an uneven playing field.

#27 1976PMJwires

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 05:29 PM

QUOTE (Lee @ Aug 22 2010, 06:42 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
If your a top 4 then its accepted, if your not then tough




It's more noticeable with the top 4, as they pass the ball more, hence WHY the TOP4 tongue.gif

#28 Wakefield Ram

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 05:30 PM

I watched Warrington v Hull Friday night and the Warrington winger's first try was passed by Anderson (I think) clearly behind the 20m line and caught by the winger at least 2m in front of it. Video ref is used for miniscule knock-ons and fingertips touching tries down, but we can't use it for blatant forward passes?

It's not momentum most of the time, all you need to do is just look at the direction of the player's hands. That tells you the direction the passing player passed the ball. Passes to wingers are very often forward and passes drawing the full-back seem to be regularly forward.

I guess the game needs to decide whether forward passes are okay along with not playing the ball. Either impose the rules or change them, but the game is turning into a joke.

#29 JohnM

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 05:41 PM

It seems to me that short forward passes between players in close proximity are virtually undetectable to ref and linesman but can be seen on TV because of the elevated position of the camera, especially from a cherry picker.



#30 JohnM

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 05:41 PM

wot he said

Edited by JohnM, 23 August 2010 - 05:42 PM.


#31 Padge

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 06:31 PM

QUOTE (deluded pom? @ Aug 23 2010, 10:13 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Correct, but it also can't travel forwards. (Patronising return of service).

It can travel forward relative to a spectator in the stand. rolleyes.gif

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#32 petero

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 07:23 PM

QUOTE (Hannibal @ Aug 23 2010, 10:28 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
biggrin.gif

Actually no, it was in the build up to the try.

McCaw went in at the opposite corner, and despite the fact that his foot was clearly in touch, the video ref didn't see that either.


Wrong forum pal, as you like to remark whenever the NRL is being mentioned, at least thats still R/L or have you conveniently forgotten?

#33 Fully

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 08:07 PM

It's getting to be a joke. Gledhill moans about refs but if he watches the highlights of the Bulls v Wakey game again he'll see that two of the tries were scored from forward passes.

#34 Shadow

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 08:18 PM

QUOTE (sallywt @ Aug 23 2010, 10:16 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Can't it?

The direction of a pass is relative to the player making it and
not to the actual path relative to the ground. A player running
towards his opponents goal line may throw the ball towards
a colleague who is behind him but because of the throwers
own momentum the ball travels forward relative to the
ground. This is not a forward pass as the thrower has not
passed the ball forward in relation to himself. This is
particularly noticeable when a running player makes a high,
lobbed pass.


I'm going to bookmark this and next time L'Angelo mentions RU's "Arcane and needlessly complex" laws I shall ask him for an opinion biggrin.gif
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#35 Stan Doffarf

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Posted 23 August 2010 - 09:07 PM

QUOTE (Shadow @ Aug 23 2010, 09:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm going to bookmark this and next time L'Angelo mentions RU's "Arcane and needlessly complex" laws I shall ask him for an opinion biggrin.gif


Actually that's a very clear and concise description of how the law should be applied, and I believe it's pretty much identical in Union.
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#36 chrisl1

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 04:07 PM

QUOTE (Just Browny @ Aug 23 2010, 05:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
Agreed, we need to go back to the days when refs gave forward passes they hadn't seen.

Well there are another two officials who run the line and who usually should be in a better than the referree to see whether a pass is forward. Unless something is done the game is brought into disrepute. One time we could laugh at RU for all the forward passes which were never picked up but no more.

#37 nath155

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 04:37 PM

wow just seen the tries from wakefield bradford 3 obvious forward passes in bradford tries and its not even like there only a little bit forward. whats the point in having line judges what do they get paid for. the ref is also in a very good position to call them

#38 Blind side johnny

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Posted 26 August 2010 - 06:47 PM



Don't forget the momentum rule, as stevo will always say!

tongue.gif
Believe what you see, don't see what you believe.


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