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Wigan, the play-offs


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#1 hindle xiii

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 05:22 PM

I've posed this question before within another thread months ago, but now seems a more suitable time.

Now Wigan have finished first, and the play-offs next up, if the Warriors don't reach Old Trafford will that be seen as a disappointing season in the eyes of the supporters?

Noble took them to within 80 minutes of the Grand Final on a few occasions, however this was after indifferent league form. Now they've been consistently the best but play-off rugby is a new competition.

So, if Wigan don't make Old Trafford in 2010, is this season on par with last?

(Wigan v Leeds, next Sunday, 6.30pm)

On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#2 HappyDave

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 05:47 PM

I'm a neutral although I think Wigan will probably reach the final but if any Wigan fans are disheartened if they've 'only' won the league leaders shield but not reach the final the they're not worth classifying as fans. They should be proud to have finished top of the league & hope they can be champions of the engage Super League XV.
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#3 hindle xiii

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 05:57 PM

QUOTE (HappyDave @ Sep 4 2010, 06:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I'm a neutral although I think Wigan will probably reach the final but if any Wigan fans are disheartened if they've 'only' won the league leaders shield but not reach the final the they're not worth classifying as fans. They should be proud to have finished top of the league & hope they can be champions of the engage Super League XV.

I didn't mean that, they've excelled in the league during 2010, but have been in touching distance of the Final in the last few years, if that progression isn't matched or furthered, will it be a worse season overall?

On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#4 giwildgo

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 06:12 PM

QUOTE (hindle xiii @ Sep 4 2010, 06:57 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I didn't mean that, they've excelled in the league during 2010, but have been in touching distance of the Final in the last few years, if that progression isn't matched or furthered, will it be a worse season overall?

No it won't be a worse season overall, most fans watch Wigan from February onwards not just in September / October. Rightly or wrongly the GF / playoffs are seen as the big thing to win nowadays (despite being little different than the old pre SL Premiership tourney that was viewed as little more than pointless). However the outcome of the GF / playoffs remain heavily influenced by form on an individual day and luck with injuries (much like the CC cup) to a greater extent than topping the league which is the mark of consistency of the best side over 7 months, where every club has ups and downs.

Sky and the RFL have devalued the status of the League since SL inception in terms of the poor quality of the trophy, lack of prize money and limited publicity for the League Leaders since 1998 to cash in on the money spinner of a GF and playoffs. This year, there has been a slight change with the addition of 50k prize money and appropriate ceremony last night to crown the achievement that struck the right balance.

I hope we get to the GF and win it, but if we don't it won't reduce the pride I have in the team over their effort and reward in the league this year and it won't take away the fond memories and enjoyment of last night.

Edited by giwildgo, 04 September 2010 - 06:14 PM.

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#5 hindle xiii

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Posted 04 September 2010 - 06:17 PM

QUOTE (giwildgo @ Sep 4 2010, 07:12 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
No it won't be a worse season overall, most fans watch Wigan from February onwards not just in September / October. Rightly or wrongly the GF / playoffs are seen as the big thing to win nowadays (despite being little different than the old pre SL Premiership tourney that was viewed as little more than pointless). However the outcome of the GF / playoffs remain heavily influenced by form on an individual day and luck with injuries (much like the CC cup) to a greater extent than topping the league which is the mark of consistency of the best side over 7 months, where every club has ups and downs.

Sky and the RFL have devalued the status of the League since SL inception in terms of the poor quality of the trophy, lack of prize money and limited publicity for the League Leaders since 1998 to cash in on the money spinner of a GF and playoffs. This year, there has been a slight change with the addition of 50k prize money and appropriate ceremony last night to crown the achievement that struck the right balance.

I hope we get to the GF and win it, but if we don't it won't reduce the pride I have in the team over their effort and reward in the league this year and it won't take away the fond memories and enjoyment of last night.

Ta.

On Odsal Top baht 'at.


#6 Futtocks

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 09:17 AM

I have a hunch we won't win the GF, even if we make it to the Final.

But I am still very proud, pleased and enthused by the way the team has raised their game and become a proper contender with the likes of Leeds and St Helens, after too many rather underwhelming seasons.

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#7 Dave T

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 09:38 AM

QUOTE (Futtocks @ Sep 6 2010, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a hunch we won't win the GF, even if we make it to the Final.

But I am still very proud, pleased and enthused by the way the team has raised their game and become a proper contender with the likes of Leeds and St Helens, after too many rather underwhelming seasons.
Yep. As fans, all we can ever ask for is that we get full effort and we see signs of improvement. At Wigan you have seen massive improvements, as we have seen at Warrington.

There is a real chance that Wigan may not take the SL Title, but to have done what they have so far is a fantastic achievement, especially when at the start of the season people couldn't see past Leeds (although I personally never understood that). I was disappointed that Wire lost that 2nd spot in the last seconds, as it would have been great to have two teams overtake Saints and Leeds in the league.

Whatever happens now, Wigan have had a very good season, and only look like getting better next year, so whilst fans may be disappointed if they did lose a playoff game, I'm sure most would be pleased overall and excited about next year. I certainly know that is how I feel about Warrington.


#8 Exiled Wiganer

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 09:53 AM

One of the great things about being League Champions is that I will not feel down hearted about a defeat until next March.
Noble's approach was an interesting one though, last year building momentum so that we ended up almost nicking a place at OT even though we had lost as many games as we had won. If we had managed a win he'd have been vindicated fully.
Excitement and disappointment are always measured against expectation (so that Atkins will presumably be disappointed with anything short of the Treble), and Wigan have far exceeded mine thus far. I wasn't even confident we'd make the top 4, let alone win the league.
One final factor that will mitigate any disappointment if we bow out without even getting to OT, is that none of our players is a veteran, and we can expect improvement from the young guns who won us the league, and from our new overseas players who are of a calibre far above the men they are replacing...

#9 davo99

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 11:26 AM

QUOTE (Exiled Wiganer @ Sep 6 2010, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
we ended up almost nicking a place at OT even though we had lost as many games as we had won


And that is the biggest problem I have with the playoffs. You can be ###### all season, come up against a team that hasn't lost all season who have a bout of flu raging through the team the week before the final and the ###### team end up champions

Saints have nicked it a few times from 2nd but I always feel whoever finished top deserves it more

And 8 in the payoffs is 2 too many

#10 maroonandgold

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 11:37 AM

QUOTE (Exiled Wiganer @ Sep 6 2010, 10:53 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
One of the great things about being League Champions is that I will not feel down hearted about a defeat until next March.
Noble's approach was an interesting one though, last year building momentum so that we ended up almost nicking a place at OT even though we had lost as many games as we had won. If we had managed a win he'd have been vindicated fully.

But you aren't League champions yet....that's what the OP was asking.

There's 10 types of people in the world...those who understand binary and those that don't


#11 Dave T

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Posted 06 September 2010 - 12:08 PM

QUOTE (davo99 @ Sep 6 2010, 12:26 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
And that is the biggest problem I have with the playoffs. You can be ###### all season, come up against a team that hasn't lost all season who have a bout of flu raging through the team the week before the final and the ###### team end up champions

Saints have nicked it a few times from 2nd but I always feel whoever finished top deserves it more

And 8 in the payoffs is 2 too many
Not really. If you are ###### all season you are likely to be 7th or 8th at best, and it is very difficult from that position to win.

The heavy seeding sorts this IMO, and is why I wouldn't support a straight knockout.


#12 Wilderspoolmemories

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 08:06 AM

It was a better system when it was top 5, 1st played 2nd for a place in the final,then the loser got a second chance and had to battle it out with 3rd,4th and 5th to get there. 8 teams is to many and although very difficult it's not impossible for the 8th placed team to make it to the final. This means a team from the lower half of the league could one day be crowned champions despite an average season and that cannot be right.
2009 Warrington 25 Hudderfield 16
2010 Warrington 30 Leeds 6
2011 League Leaders Shield Winners
2012 Warrington 35 Leeds 18

Challenge cups and league leaders shields everywhere! We need more silver polish!

#13 giwildgo

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 05:11 PM

QUOTE (Futtocks @ Sep 6 2010, 10:17 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I have a hunch we won't win the GF, even if we make it to the Final.

But I am still very proud, pleased and enthused by the way the team has raised their game and become a proper contender with the likes of Leeds and St Helens, after too many rather underwhelming seasons.

I agree - I actually think we won't make the GF. Home form has been shaky at times.

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#14 giwildgo

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 05:15 PM

QUOTE (maroonandgold @ Sep 6 2010, 12:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
But you aren't League champions yet....that's what the OP was asking.

How do you define League champions other than the team that tops the league? Call it what you want - league champions, minor premiers or leaders leaders, but the actual league part of the season is over and has been won. Super League is a brand covering the entire competition and therefore the overall championship is an entirely different concept which is governed by the playoffs / GF.

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#15 shrek

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Posted 07 September 2010 - 05:25 PM

QUOTE (hindle xiii @ Sep 4 2010, 06:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
I've posed this question before within another thread months ago, but now seems a more suitable time.

Now Wigan have finished first, and the play-offs next up, if the Warriors don't reach Old Trafford will that be seen as a disappointing season in the eyes of the supporters?

Noble took them to within 80 minutes of the Grand Final on a few occasions, however this was after indifferent league form. Now they've been consistently the best but play-off rugby is a new competition.

So, if Wigan don't make Old Trafford in 2010, is this season on par with last?

(Wigan v Leeds, next Sunday, 6.30pm)


I personally won't see it as a disappointing season if we don't make Old Trafford and it won't be seen by myself as being on a par with last, far from it.

We have proved over 27 rounds we can perform consistently and finished top with a comfortable margin which could have been greater if we'd performed as we should for the full 80 away at Bradford and at home to Harlequins.

Knockout rugby is a different beast, I think we have a couple of flaws that will be exploited by other teams in the intensity of the play-offs and I think we have shown on a couple of occasions that a few of our players can be distracted from there own performances as others get in there faces. Huddersfield at our place springs to mind.

Given our only signing last season was Deacon, I'll be more worried if this time next year with the signings we have made and may yet make for next year if we don't at least make a final. McGuire has worked wonders and long may it continue, there seems to be a real buzz about the place, the youth production line seems to be churning them out and its all positive at the moment.