Bullish Giant Rhino Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 When Castleford started the 2006 season their crowds steadily dropped as the club failed to win and headed for relegation. At the end of the season the interest was less than at the start. There's no actual evidence that crowds are excited by their clubs losing all the time and facing relegation. RL World did a full study and relegation does not excite fans. When Cas were no longer under threat of relegation their crowds did not drop. Ok, so that invalidates my second point, but still not my first. Crowds are based on losing and winning and not SELLING. They're different things altogether Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponterover Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 When Castleford started the 2006 season their crowds steadily dropped as the club failed to win and headed for relegation. At the end of the season the interest was less than at the start. There's no actual evidence that crowds are excited by their clubs losing all the time and facing relegation. RL World did a full study and relegation does not excite fans. When Cas were no longer under threat of relegation their crowds did not drop. 3x8 is not all about relegation, it's also about meaningful competition that clubs such as Cas have a shot at winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponterover Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I think I'll pass on your market research. Cas are so heavily in debt according to Mr. Sadler the end to licensing and the 3x8 will relieve the pressure on the club. I am sure their board is thinking about money not silverware. Their debt is less than their assets, so not many worries there. Their debt is to a bloke who bleeds black and amber, also not many worries there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Parksider Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Giving 10 clubs 5 Million a year might make SL better but it still doesnt solve many other issues which are killing the game. Issues such as lack of Development Officers, BARLA v RFL, Pro and Amateur clubs fighting over use of youngsters, lack of development of the game not just in dvelopment areas, but in Heartland areas should not be ignored in any changes to the game. Should SL clubs get more Sky and RFL money to waste when that money could be better spent elsewhere in the game (Development Officers for example)? The Structural argument is making people miss what really needs sorting and quickly. You pose a fair question. Is limited money better given to SL clubs or development officers per se?? On the evidence I have seen Leeds Rhinos local development efforts have been fantastic. They don't just inspire more kids to play, they support existing junior clubs and the formation of new clubs in the city. How much return there is on a development officer in Nottingham or wherever I am not sure, but I am sure top quality SL clubs do stimulate significant player development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Parksider Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Ok, so that invalidates my second point, but still not my first. Crowds are based on losing and winning and not SELLING. They're different things altogether Selling your best players ends up with you losing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keighley Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Which do you want? The random, ramshackle world of Superleague as a business being propped up by fly by night one minute I am "investing £Millions" to the next minute "I am standing down" rich men who are so rich the game is £68M in debt, and every assett we have is in hoc to these people? Or a proper SL business based on sound business principles? Try to look at the realities of the rich men. Those at the top of SL who have indeed achieved self sustainability but do not want to put any more in now. Those at the bottom of SL who don't want to put in any more because they are at the bottom and face a glass ceiling. The one who throws £Millions at his club but hasn't had a crowd or a trophy in 12 years? The one who wants to buy the best 25 players in the world and wants to be bigger than Wigan in the 1990's? Isn't it time to say "enough" to these people who are dragging the game down? Or do we have to keep calling for them until Leigh, Fax, Fev, Sheffield and keighley have one, which will happen on the twelfth of never? I certainly don't want to lose these guys. The game is in a beggars can't be chosers situation. I would prefer the whole league to be one of self sustaining profitable businesses but until then, it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullish Giant Rhino Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Their debt is less than their assets, so not many worries there. Their debt is to a bloke who bleeds black and amber, also not many worries there. Didn't some Cas players admit in the YEP earlier this year that in 2009/2010ish (correct me if I'm wrong) they were told to give up their wage so the club would stay out of admin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullish Giant Rhino Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Selling your best players ends up with you losing more. Depends on your youth system and how good your coaches are etc, Try selling that mentality to Wigan-made a fortune of transfers this year but still doing fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Parksider Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Their debt is less than their assets, so not many worries there. Their debt is to a bloke who bleeds black and amber, also not many worries there. You'd best check out Griff's posts on debt. The Cas debt could be inherited by the blokes family who just want the money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponterover Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Didn't some Cas players admit in the YEP earlier this year that in 2009/2010ish (correct me if I'm wrong) they were told to give up their wage so the club would stay out of admin? Not heard that one and don't read the YEP, so can't comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Parksider Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Depends on your youth system and how good your coaches are etc, Try selling that mentality to Wigan-made a fortune of transfers this year but still doing fine Wigan produce well over twice as many top pro's as Cas. Wigan have a surplus to sell And so it comes to pass we need more clubs like Wigan in Superleague and less clubs like Cas Cut to ten and we will get a lot nearer to that. Edited January 4, 2014 by The Parksider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponterover Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) You'd best check out Griff's posts on debt. The Cas debt could be inherited by the blokes family who just want the money. Jack's son is already a shareholder and holds a seat on the BOD. Griff likes to look at companies house website, which tells about 1/10th of the story. Edited January 4, 2014 by Ponterover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keighley Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Spot on IMO. John Wilkin among other RL players has been saying this publically for some time and yet the RFL continue along the path of structural change rather than income generation. Why are the two mutually exclusive. Can't we have both at the same time ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l'angelo mysterioso Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 (edited) Slightly moronic comment. Can't see anybody was arguing that. Are you L'Angelo in disguises Edited January 4, 2014 by l'angelo mysterioso WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015 Keeping it local Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullish Giant Rhino Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Wigan produce well over twice as many top pro's as Cas. Wigan have a surplus to sell And so it comes to pass we need more clubs like Wigan in Superleague and less clubs like Cas Cut to ten and we will get a lot nearer to that. Any ideology of SL which includes less teams than 12 is so unrealistic it's not even worth debating. Like I said at the start of the hour (hehe) we need more money in the game and we need more rich owners in influencing the cap, in other words increasing it, to make this happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponterover Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Any ideology of SL which includes less teams than 12 is so unrealistic it's not even worth debating. Like I said at the start of the hour (hehe) we need more money in the game and we need more rich owners in influencing the cap, in other words increasing it, to make this happen. You are Marwan Koukash and I claim £5. I agree with all of your post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keighley Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 The Caine report 40 years ago said what needed to happen as did Framing the Future, The lack of will to change is slowly killing this game, tails do not wag dogs. Tell that to the king of France at the time of the revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keighley Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Not sure we should operate Superleague based on so many "may's". All Featherstone offer is the promise of a rich man. If they replaced Bradford the game would lose several thousand paying fans to a rich man's debt. It's a business no brainer. But it's Ok to lose tens of thousands of fans to facilitate your merger mania Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l'angelo mysterioso Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I've never met anybody who can lose the plot as well as you. old cock. Well apart from predictive text translating harlequins into battleships Perhaps you'd care to add meat onto the festering bones on to this rather empty gratuitous comment WELCOME TO THE ROYSTON VASEY SUPER LEAGUE 2015 Keeping it local Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullish Giant Rhino Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 You are Marwan Koukash and I claim £5. I agree with all of your post Haha. I wish! I'm not. Can I have £5 please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keighley Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Castleford's crowds have dropped from 7,500 to 6,300 since 2009. Castlefords worst crowd came last year .v.Fartown 3,222. I call these figures a drop. Fans don't want to watch a selling club. Castleford's crowds have dropped from 7,500 to 6,300 since 2009. Castlefords worst crowd came last year .v.Fartown 3,222. I call these figures a drop. Fans don't want to watch a selling club. I have one word for you' "recession". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponterover Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Still need to sort the slope though... I'm not trying to sound funny here, but it's not great for a SL club to be playing on a slope like that, where the nature of the game can change depend on which half you're attacking It'll get done at some point, probably when the PO Road end is re-developed. Interestingly, speaking to some of the players, they don't think the slope makes any difference. What you gain in attack going downhill, you lose in defence, jogging backwards uphill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 Tell that to the king of France at the time of the revolution. Yeah. right, whatever. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padge Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 I have one word for you' "recession". Saved for future reference Its the recession that has reduced crowds not SL Thanks, you've made my day. Visit my photography site www.padge.smugmug.com Radio 5 Live: Saturday 14 April 2007 Dave Whelan "In Wigan rugby will always be king" This country's wealth was created by men in overalls, it was destroyed by men in suits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullish Giant Rhino Posted January 4, 2014 Share Posted January 4, 2014 It'll get done at some point, probably when the PO Road end is re-developed. Interestingly, speaking to some of the players, they don't think the slope makes any difference. What you gain in attack going downhill, you lose in defence, jogging backwards uphill. What will be the nature of the PO Road end redevelopment, out of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts