The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)

[Steve Slater]

but wasn't it ever thus with Sheffield? Sheffield's survival and achievement is down to the ability and determination of one man. The club is here to stay in a city that has chronically under recognised it. And is that it? If more people came to watch Sheffield Eagles would that mean the game wasn't going backwards outside SL?

Don't we all wish that London could get management as good as those running Sheffield Eagles, with a bit more cash of course. Then we'd all know whether Rugby League could be a commercial success in the capital. But if we are going to have expansion clubs, they need to be Super Clubs, not under achievers, otherwise the further marginalisation of long established famous names would be a retrograde step. Do you know of any candidates? 

[l'angelo mysterioso]

Don't we all wish that London could get management as good as those running Sheffield Eagles, with a bit more cash of course. Then we'd all know whether Rugby League could be a commercial success in the capital. But if we are going to have expansion clubs, they need to be Super Clubs, not under achievers, otherwise the further marginalisation of long established famous names would be a retrograde step. Do you know of any candidates? 

yes

 

any club in Super League or with aspirations to be in it must have the realistic potential to be a super club or be one, otherwise there's no point.

I can think of no candidates from clubs outside SL who would remotely enhance the competition or look like doing so.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

.

Edited July 23, 2014 by l'angelo mysterioso

[Trojan]

it is 9 years, is that what you mean by 'perpetual'? Suggest you cheek the meaning of the word. Bradford in the SL era, and before have been one of the most significant clubs in the game. They have the potential to be so again.

They have been rescued, the fans have contributed money, rescued again, and it's been going on now for about 5 years.  Teams shouldn't struggle for 5 years, they should be put our of their misery by relegation. Hopefully they'll come back stronger.  Clearly licencing wasn't doing Bradford any favours. If it had been they'd have been up there with the front runners again.  I'm old enough to remember the old one division league, and Bradford finishing near the bottom season after season.  What was the result of that?  They went out of business and had to be rescued and started again from scratch.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

They have been rescued, the fans have contributed money, rescued again, and it's been going on now for about 5 years.  Teams shouldn't struggle for 5 years, they should be put our of their misery by relegation. Hopefully they'll come back stronger.  Clearly licencing wasn't doing Bradford any favours. If it had been they'd have been up there with the front runners again.  I'm old enough to remember the old one division league, and Bradford finishing near the bottom season after season.  What was the result of that?  They went out of business and had to be rescued and started again from scratch.

and how does your club stack up against the Bulls in both achievement and potential?

What would their contribution to SL be? Could they become a power in the game? Could they attract 20,000+ attendances? 

My memories go back that far as well, but they are less selective, something for which I am thankful

[Trojan]

and how does your club stack up against the Bulls in both achievement and potential?

What would their contribution to SL be? Could they become a power in the game? Could they attract 20,000+ attendances? 

My memories go back that far as well, but they are less selective, something for which I am thankful

who are my club?

[l'angelo mysterioso]

who are my club?

you mean you don't know?

Things are worse than I thought

[Trojan]

you mean you don't know?

Things are worse than I thought

no I know who they are, do you?

[l'angelo mysterioso]

no I know who they are, do you?

why? Does it matter? we are discussing the welfare of the sport as a whole aren't we?

Why on earth would I care which club you support?

Edited July 23, 2014 by l'angelo mysterioso

[Trojan]

As I posted on another of these interminable threads, should my club be fortunate enough to be included in SL I confidently expect them to struggle, and perhaps be relegated. But so what?  It's not the end of the world. provided, you are allowed the opportunity to refresh yourself in the lower division and come back again.  Fev came back from an extended spell in the lowest division to (until this season) dominate the Championship.  Once P&R is re-established, things should even out and there won't be this enormous gulf that has been allowed to develop between the SL and the rest.  If there is one reason to do away with the iniquitous licencing system (apart from its allowing sides who clearly can't compete to continue in SL) it is this gulf.  I reckon there are quite a few players in the Championships who like Liam Finn, Kyle Amor and Alex Walmsley  gven the chance and the coaching can make the step up to SL.

[JohnM]

If there's no crowd potential for a champion club at Swinton, what chance is there for a champion club just down the road at Salford?

 

well.....its not an "if", for a start. Swinton will never be a  big club again, especially as there us a club just down the road with a new ground, easy to reach, good facilities, well managed, well financed...

[The Parksider]

Don't we all wish that London could get management as good as those running Sheffield Eagles

 

People really cannot have it both ways.

 

We've got Trojan trying to convince us Bradford are dead and gone and are no longer a big club yet they still play out of home ground Odsal, they still count support at 6,000. they still run an academy that produces players and they now have the missing ingredient, that of a rich owner.

 

Remember as soon as Featherstone got that rich owner in Nahaboo there was post after post about how the club would be going places, buying up all the best players and reaching for the stars.

 

OK I accept we are in the here and now and it's not 2001 and Bradford have not just crushed Wigan in the SL final, but by 'eck Brdford are still three times the club Featherstone or Leigh are.  

 

Now we get the myth of how marvelously run Sheffield Eagles are.

 

The club was so well run it collapsed out of existence, then when it came back it was so well run that it couldn't manage to develop a player production system. Compare and contrast the London academy with the Sheffield academy, which one produced the results?  

 

Then Sheffield brought in the right players to win the Championship and how well did the crowds go? They went nowhere despite the successes.

 

But again people can't have it both ways and declare that in the here and now Bradford or London are shot, when in the here and now "well managed" Sheffield are well down the Championship and playing before falling crowds out of a bigger dump than Odsal.

 

That a non RL city can pinch the Championship twice from under the nose of Halifax Featherstone and Leigh, may say more about the standard of RL in the championship and the gulf between that and Superleague, than it does about the readiness or the ability of CC clubs to be up to P & R.

 

You look at the tables in the here and now and if the CC clubs have to go to places like Hull and star studded Salford next year there could be immediate problems with this "brand new" exciting system. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by The Parksider

[Trojan]

People really cannot have it both ways.

 

We've got Trojan trying to convince us Bradford are dead and gone and are no longer a big club yet they still play out of home ground Odsal, they still count support at 6,000. they still run an academy that produces players and they now have the missing ingredient, that of a rich owner.

 

Remember as soon as Featherstone got that rich owner in Nahaboo there was post after post about how the club would be going places, buying up all the best players and reaching for the stars.

 

OK I accept we are in the here and now and it's not 2001 and Bradford have not just crushed Wigan in the SL final, but by 'eck Brdford are still three times the club Featherstone or Leigh are.  

 

Now we get the myth of how marvelously run Sheffield Eagles are.

 

The club was so well run it collapsed out of existence, then when it came back it was so well run that it couldn't manage to develop a player production system. Compare and contrast the London academy with the Sheffield academy, which one produced the results?  

 

Then Sheffield brought in the right players to win the Championship and how well did the crowds go? They went nowhere despite the successes.

 

But again people can't have it both ways and declare that in the here and now Bradford or London are shot, when in the here and now "well managed" Sheffield are well down the Championship and playing before falling crowds out of a bigger dump than Odsal.

 

That a non RL city can pinch the Championship twice from under the nose of Halifax Featherstone and Leigh, may say more about the standard of RL in the championship and the gulf between that and Superleague, than it does about the readiness or the ability of CC clubs to be up to P & R.

 

You look at the tables in the here and now and if the CC clubs have to go to places like Hull and star studded Salford next year there could be immediate problems with this "brand new" exciting system. 

I never said Bradford were dead, I said a spell in the Championship would do them good. Before commenting on what other posters have written it would be a good idea to read what they have written first. Whether Bradford are "three times the club Featherstone or Leigh are" remains to be seen.  Without the likes of Featherstone or Leigh there'd have been no Bradford in the sixties.

[Dave T]

Nice to see the RL 'family' alive and kicking.

Aren't all of our clubs important and valuable, whether they are Wigan, Featherstone, London or Coventry.

Im not sure why so many people love to stick the boot into clubs just to win an argument on a forum.

All clubs are important. Apart from Widnes.

[Griff]

But again people can't have it both ways and declare that in the here and now Bradford or London are shot, when in the here and now "well managed" Sheffield are well down the Championship and playing before falling crowds out of a bigger dump than Odsal.

 

 

I take issue with that, Parky.  Odsal is much bigger than Owlerton.

[l'angelo mysterioso]

I take issue with that, Parky.  Odsal is much bigger than Owlerton.

I think he might be talking about levels of squalor

 

but you knew that didn't you?

Edited July 24, 2014 by l'angelo mysterioso

[brooza]

The top 8 #superleague sides in 2014 will enter the 2015 #challengecup in round 6. The bottom 4 will enter in round 5.

[brooza]

Championship 1 to become "Kingstone Press League One"

[brooza]

2015 marks a new era in the sport of Rugby League and next season promises to be the most exciting in living memory.

The changes to the structure of the competitions will ensure that every minute, of every match, in every competition matters, while the return of promotion and relegation in a format that is financially sustainable should ensure fans of the sport are entertained from February to October, with an exciting season punctuated by a series of world-class events commencing with the World Club Challenge and finishing at Old Trafford with the Super League Grand Final.

 

Why is the competition restructuring taking place?

The fundamental purpose of the new structure is to make Rugby League’s professional competitions more exciting, by restoring promotion and relegation in a sustainable manner. 

 

What will the leagues be called in 2015?

In the regular season, the First Utility Super League and Kingstone Press Championship will retain their current names – the only change will be that the third tier competition will become Kingstone Press League 1.

 

How many clubs will be in each competition?

Super League and the Championship will each feature 12 teams and Kingstone Press League 1 will comprise 14 clubs.

 

How will the identity of the clubs in all three competitions be determined?

At the end of the 2014 regular season the bottom two clubs in Super League will be relegated to create a 12-team competition. At the same time, the bottom five clubs in the Championship will be relegated, and the Championship One winners will be promoted to create a 12-team Championship. The five relegated Championship clubs and the eight remaining Championship Once clubs will be joined by new entrants Coventry Bears to create a 14-team League 1.

 

How will the new structure work for League 1?

The 14 League 1 clubs will each play 22 games – 11 home and 11 away, playing each other once and nine teams twice with fixtures scheduled on a geographical basis. At the end of the regular season 1st will play 2nd with the winner promoted to the Championship as champions. The loser of that match will join the teams which finished 3rd, 4th and 5th in a play-offs series as follows: loser of the promotion decider v 5th, and 3rd v 4th. The winners of those semi-finals will contest a play-off final to determine the second promotion place.

In addition, a League One Cup competition will be reintroduced in 2015 consisting of 16 teams – the 14 League 1 clubs plus the 2014 National Conference League Grand Final winners and the 2014 RFL Conference Challenge Cup winners. The competition will be a straight knockout with the early rounds played at the start of the season.  The first round will be an open draw grouped by geography with the straight open draw thereafter. It is proposed that the final will be played at the ‘home team’ venue rather than a neutral venue but this is still to be confirmed.

 

Will Championship and League One clubs still be able to enter into duel registration partnerships with Super League clubs?

A three-way working party with representatives from Super League, Championship and the community game has been formed to look into how best to protect the integrity of the leagues whilst ensuring that there are minimal barriers to stop players having regular competitive playing opportunities.

 

Will bonus points continue to be awarded in both the Championship and League One?

With annual promotion and relegation restored, there is a recognition that all teams need to use the same points scoring system.  The sport currently operates two scoring systems with two points for a win and one for a draw in Super League, and three points, two for a draw and one for losing by 12 points or less in Championship and Championship One. One of these will be adopted across all three competitions from 2015.

A consultation process is currently underway to see which would be the best option: the process will take into account the views of players, coaches, administrators, broadcasters, commercial partners, other stakeholders in the game and, most importantly, the fans.   Leeds Metropolitan University are undertaking a piece of research to obtain the views of fans from both Super League and Championships that will feed into the decision-making process which is expected to come to a conclusion before the end of this year.

 

How will the new structure impact on the Challenge Cup?

The 2015 Challenge Cup will be aligned to the new competition structure with the main change being that the eight clubs contesting the Super League play-offs in 2014 (and Super 8s from 2015 onwards) will enter the Challenge Cup at the sixth round stage.

The 14 League 1 teams will enter at the third round stage, joining the 10 survivors from the 40 clubs invited to participate from the first round (12 ties)

The 12 Championship clubs will then enter in Round 4, joining the 12 third round winners (12 ties).

The bottom four Super League teams enter in Round 5, joining the 12 fourth round winners (eight ties).

The top eight Super League teams enter in Round 6, joining the eight fifth round winners (eight ties)

The sixth round is followed by the quarter-finals, semi-finals and final at Wembley Stadium.

The 2015 Challenge Cup final will be played on the Saturday of the August Bank Holiday weekend.

[MikeW]

All clubs are important. Apart from Widnes.

Dave,

 

You haven't spent the last 20 years running the RFL have you?

[Griff]

I like the idea of "duel registration".

 

Pistols ?  Rapiers ?   Balloons and blunderbusses ?

[John Drake]

Following today's official announcement of how the new league structures are going to work, here's the all-new never ending league restructure debate thread to discuss it all:

 

http://www.totalrl.com/forums/index.php/topic/256059-rfl-competitions-press-conference/

 

As a result, I'm locking this thread to avoid duplication.