Keep The Faith Posted August 6, 2019 Author Share Posted August 6, 2019 13 minutes ago, colinb said: Agree BSJ but this spending power doesn't seem to be doing much for them. Top half of table but not top end of table. York this season seem to have found the secret . Keeping it going into next .....we'll see. I’d not write York off just yet they rumoured to of signed two or three championship players for next year too ford is staying despite the rumour he was off to hull Kr they’ll be back up there again http://tombatley.wordpress.com/ Give it a read.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blind side johnny Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 12 minutes ago, Keep The Faith said: I’d not write York off just yet they rumoured to of signed two or three championship players for next year too ford is staying despite the rumour he was off to hull Kr they’ll be back up there again And they will have a much bigger playing budget next year. If they use it as wisely as they have this season then they should be one of the favourites for a top five finish. Sport, amongst other things, is a dream-world offering escape from harsh reality and the disturbing prospect of change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGFATHER Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 3 hours ago, colinb said: Good call. BUT where is there another Paul Handforth??....that's the $64,000,000 question. Hehe $64,000,000 might just get us one, but those types of players have all but disappeared from the game, a bit like ball playing loose forwards. Even with huge amounts of money we might struggle to find one. So many teams, including those in SL with pots of money seem unable to find one. Leeds are having to persevere with Richie Myler for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGFATHER Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Blind side johnny said: Money talks though GF and you can't compete with the purchasing power of big clubs like Fev. Very true and it is what has ruined the Championship IMO. It has turned in to a mini SL, with the same usual suspects fighting for a playoff places every year, and the rest miles behind just hoping to stave off relegation for another season. I probably would not feel the same, if I were a Fev fan with delusions of SL. But in the real world, and wanting to make the game/league as good and competitive as it could be, I'd go back to having a lower Salary Cap, but make it around £500k in CH with every player on the books counting against the limit, rather than the top 25 earners as it is now, to stop wealthier teams stockpiling players. I can dream that the game will see sense, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 2 minutes ago, DOGFATHER said: Very true and it is what has ruined the Championship IMO. It has turned in to a mini SL, with the same usual suspects fighting for a playoff places every year, and the rest miles behind just hoping to stave off relegation for another season. I probably would not feel the same, if I were a Fev fan with delusions of SL. But in the real world, and wanting to make the game/league as good and competitive as it could be, I'd go back to having a lower Salary Cap, but make it around £500k in CH with every player on the books counting against the limit, rather than the top 25 earners as it is now, to stop wealthier teams stockpiling players. I can dream that the game will see sense, I guess. £500k? That's more than Fev's player budget for this season...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 1 hour ago, colinb said: Agree BSJ but this spending power doesn't seem to be doing much for them. Top half of table but not top end of table. York this season seem to have found the secret . Keeping it going into next .....we'll see. Fev are in just about the same place in the table as the size of playing budgets; lower than TWP's Toulouse's, Bradford's and probably Leigh's. So not sure what your point is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldogs17 Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 52 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: £500k? That's more than Fev's player budget for this season...... Genuine question - does your budget include the DR/loan players or are they excluded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 1 minute ago, bulldogs17 said: Genuine question - does your budget include the DR/loan players or are they excluded? Playing budget will include all outlays on all players as specified in the salary cap regs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keep The Faith Posted August 6, 2019 Author Share Posted August 6, 2019 19 minutes ago, bulldogs17 said: Genuine question - does your budget include the DR/loan players or are they excluded? You pay a certain amount of a D/R wage and full wage of loanee player http://tombatley.wordpress.com/ Give it a read.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGFATHER Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: £500k? That's more than Fev's player budget for this season...... The £500k figure was more aimed at the likes of the full time teams, which are spending 6 or 7 times the amount some of the part time teams can afford, whilst still allowing an advantage for teams that bring in extra revenue. Some of the DR values Fev have used this season are likely to equate to over £2000 a match. I'd be surprised if you are far off the £500k mark. But I'm not in the know like you are. Even using conservative figures, Reynolds in the region of £40k+ per season (loan), Singleton £60k per season, Holmes £40k+ (loan) as examples. Divide those amounts by the number of games (23 in SL) you are looking at an average of over £2000 per player, and you have used 5 in some games. I realise some of those used will be costing less than that, and you haven't used 5 in every game, but I'd be surprised if you are not looking at the region of an average of £6000 per game in DR and loan payments per game, over 27 rounds, that's £162k before you factor in the rest of the squad. Even if teams only charged you 50% of the full wages for the DR and loan, that is still over £80k a season and I'm not convinced Leeds for example would be that generous given their salary cap constraints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinb Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 22 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: Playing budget will include all outlays on all players as specified in the salary cap regs. Genuine question Les. Are any of your players working for the club other than playing for the club. WHERE DO YOU WANT ME TO SWIPE THIS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 Just now, DOGFATHER said: The £500k figure was more aimed at the likes of the full time teams, which are spending 6 or 7 times the amount some of the part time teams can afford, whilst still allowing an advantage for teams that bring in extra revenue. Some of the DR values Fev have used this season are likely to equate to over £2000 a match. I'd be surprised if you are far off the £500k mark. Even using conservative figures, Reynolds in the region of £40k+ per season, Singleton £60k per season, Holmes £40k+ as examples. Divide those amounts by the number of games (23 in SL) you are looking at an average of over £2000 per player, and you have used 5 in some games. I realise some of those used will be costing less than that, and you haven't used 5 in every game, but I'd be surprised if you are not looking at the region of an average of £6000 per game in DR and loan per game, over 27 rounds, that's £162k before you factor in the rest of the squad. So what do you want? Different caps for FT and PT teams? And loan and DR players costs don't work like that........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanishknight Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 9 hours ago, DOGFATHER said: I would guess, the big question marks with him are his injury, combined with his age and the money he wants. Would you take a gamble? I'm always a little dubious of big name players that drop a division the wrong side of 30. Although I'm sure there must some that have done well, I'm struggling to think of any, but plenty that haven't, E.g. Robbie Hunter-Paul, Iestyn Harris, Mike Kuiti, Terry Glassie, Sid Domic and Nick Fozzard to name a few that haven't really panned out well. York have had Benny Cockayne, Tim Spears, Graham Horne and Andy Ellis who have done a great job at York. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 9 hours ago, DOGFATHER said: I would guess, the big question marks with him are his injury, combined with his age and the money he wants. Would you take a gamble? I'm always a little dubious of big name players that drop a division the wrong side of 30. Although I'm sure there must some that have done well, I'm struggling to think of any, but plenty that haven't, E.g. Robbie Hunter-Paul, Iestyn Harris, Mike Kuiti, Terry Glassie, Sid Domic and Nick Fozzard to name a few that haven't really panned out well. Sorry to be pedantic, but Mike Kuiti played the vast majority of his career in the UK outside of the top flight. He was playing for a club in the same division as Batley when he signed for us. Tere Glassie never played in the top flight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 28 minutes ago, Keep The Faith said: You pay a certain amount of a D/R wage and full wage of loanee player The club taking the player on loan or DR pays an amount agreed with the parent club, which isn't necessarily the same as the player's salary. The amount paid by the club taking the player is added on to their salary cap total and subtracted from that of the parent club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGFATHER Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 25 minutes ago, Tony F said: Sorry to be pedantic, but Mike Kuiti played the vast majority of his career in the UK outside of the top flight. He was playing for a club in the same division as Batley when he signed for us. Tere Glassie never played in the top flight. I maybe wrong, but I thought he played most of his career in the Uk with Leeds, Wakefield and Oldham (when they were in the first division?) I've a feeling he had a spell at Rochdale too, but weren't they in the first division whilst he was there too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGFATHER Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 39 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: The club taking the player on loan or DR pays an amount agreed with the parent club, which isn't necessarily the same as the player's salary. The amount paid by the club taking the player is added on to their salary cap total and subtracted from that of the parent club. I'd have a check on that Les, I'm fairly certain the loanee/DR club take on the full liability of the salary paid by the parent club for cap purposes, but on a pro rata basis. In other words, if you have a SL player on £120k p.a., and the CH team have him for a month (for ease), that equates to £10k for cap purposes, regardless of what proportion you pay him, the same applies to loan players. Although I have been known to be wrong before, have a check of Operational Rules 5.8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOGFATHER Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 50 minutes ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: So what do you want? Different caps for FT and PT teams? And loan and DR players costs don't work like that........ Personally, I would just put two of the FT teams (Toronto and Toulouse) in to SL (making it 14 teams) and have a max cap of £500k in the CH applicable to everyone. If teams like Leigh, Bradford and Fev could find a full squad of players to play FT for £500k then fine, if not, you couldn't have a FT team. It would also apply to every player on a club's books, not just the top 25 paid players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony F Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 21 minutes ago, DOGFATHER said: I maybe wrong, but I thought he played most of his career in the Uk with Leeds, Wakefield and Oldham (when they were in the first division?) I've a feeling he had a spell at Rochdale too, but weren't they in the first division whilst he was there too? No, he played only four seasons in the top flight; with Leeds and Oldham. He had other spells in the lower divisions with Swinton, Rochdale (x 2), Wakefield and ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog forever Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 2 hours ago, Les Tonks Sidestep said: £500k? That's more than Fev's player budget for this season...... Behave...... they have spent more than that on loan players alone this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 11 hours ago, DOGFATHER said: I'd have a check on that Les, I'm fairly certain the loanee/DR club take on the full liability of the salary paid by the parent club for cap purposes, but on a pro rata basis. In other words, if you have a SL player on £120k p.a., and the CH team have him for a month (for ease), that equates to £10k for cap purposes, regardless of what proportion you pay him, the same applies to loan players. Although I have been known to be wrong before, have a check of Operational Rules 5.8. The section 5.8 you refer to is in the SL Salary Cap Regs section, when the player's (pro rata) full cap value is transferred to a SL club taking that player on loan, regardless of whether that club is paying the whole or part of the player's salary for the duration of the loan. The relevant section for this discussion is in the Championship SC Regs (section 6.4, p312) where it states that the club taking the player records any payments they make for the player's services in their spend and the parent club deduct any payment they receive from their spend (Loans/DR SC rules for L1 clubs are similar). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colinb Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 On 06/08/2019 at 22:03, colinb said: Genuine question Les. Are any of your players working for the club other than playing for the club. Posted previously . Any answer Les Tonks Sidestep?? WHERE DO YOU WANT ME TO SWIPE THIS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Tonks Sidestep Posted August 9, 2019 Share Posted August 9, 2019 2 hours ago, colinb said: Posted previously . Any answer Les Tonks Sidestep?? Apologies, didn't spot your original question. At one time a few of the players were employed by the club's Foundation but no idea now. The 'team' doesn't include any players although I'm not sure if that means there are none working in some capacity. Certainly some of the players get involved in a lot of the community stuff that goes on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolie Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 On 06/08/2019 at 18:12, Blind side johnny said: Money talks though GF and you can't compete with the purchasing power of big clubs like Fev. Specially when Feb get given a quarter of their squad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batley Bob Posted August 10, 2019 Share Posted August 10, 2019 1 hour ago, coolie said: Specially when Feb get given a quarter of their squad Yep , can’t see us getting a win at Barrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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