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Rugby League in France “has to get its act together”

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On 09/01/2020 at 21:44, kiwis 13 6 said:

Disagree on the 1st point I think the best way forward for french game is to improve the French Elite 1 to a similar standard as UK Championship and make French Elite One have the potential of P & R to Super League for French sides or merged entities, thereby preserving any potential French broadcasting Rights deal for Super League!

Sure, but at the moment Catalans and to a lesser extent Toulouse are allowed to prevent their players from playing tests because there’s a pool of Elite 1 players. So a sub-par team runs out, gets smashed and everyone says “France are the laughing stock.”

Run with my idea, France become a top tier 2 team, the media take note and Elite 1 attracts investment. 

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On 09/01/2020 at 20:39, fcl said:

even PNG can benefit. Without the contribution of Australian players, they probably would not have beaten Great Britain recently

Not sure about that mate.... Great Britain are absolute garbage let's not forget.

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Rugby League: Alive and Handling

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The glory days of French RL are so long in the past it may be difficult to ever get back there. It feels like the West Indies cricket team, the glory days are gone and there is really no realistic pathway to righting the ship. RL is a sport played in a handful of villages in the south and you could probably put every RL fan in the Stade de France and still have seats left over.

Maybe France's best hope is exporting its best young players to other countries, get them playing in SL, NRL (if any are good enough), NSW Cup, QLD Cup, etc? I am not sure Catalans and a Toulouse SL side are every really going to have the luxury of becoming a nursery of French talent, their obligation is to win games and trophies with the best players available.

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On 09/01/2020 at 09:29, Harry Stottle said:

With what, more Aussies?

The whole piece is about improving the game with the French public, especially in participation levels, filling the 2 pro french teams with 'foreigners' is a double edged sword, it may bring short term relative success but it does nothing for those French lads who may want to make a career from the game there will always be those from overseas available and utilised by the clubs to fill the places there will be far more opportunities for the French lads who prefer to play the 'handling' game to make a living at union.

AND, it will not only be France affected the UK is going down the same road, the whole RL world is fast becoming an annexation of the game in Australia, it has happened in the International Arena already the teams of Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, Lebanon, Italy, Cook Islands, Greece are all but Australian except for the teams name.

The domestic game in France is in a position that North America will not acheive in the next 50/100 years, emphasis and investment would be better utilized in France building on the foundations that have been in place for near on 90years than across the Atlantic if we really want the game to prosper.

They should rename the sport Aussie league. 

The Aussie style of play is my biggest bugbear. The wrestling, the low risk five drives, the emphasis in physicality over skill, the grinding, attritional Aussie way of playing.

The 2017 RLWC was England vs Australia, but style wise it was Aussie vs Aussie, making it an 80 minute arm wrestle, and a poor spectacle. The last GB tour was dull too, led by the revered Aussie dullard and his dullard style of play. Not that I’m holding him responsible for everything as the wrestle was brought over to Super League by an Aussie (whose name escapes me) before Bennett appeared over here. Even Aussies are complaining about Brits playing an Aussie style of play. Think the responsibility lies with RL authorities here for allowing an Aussie takeover, and losing the more attractive open running British style.

Filling teams full of Aussies homogenises the game, be it club teams or national teams (via the heritage for the latter). In football, Brazil export thousands of players to clubs around the world...but at least they take with them their attractive technical style of play, which then raises the standard of the local players. Firmino at Liverpool for example is worth the admission fee alone. Aussies in RL are exporting all the unattractive traits from Aussie RL, it’s an infestation. Also, Aussie heritage sides impedes progress in France as the France national team cannot compete with these Aussie teams. People that praise Tonga yet disparage France, it’s nonsense. France trying to develop their own players is infinitely more commendable than a team inheriting a boatload of Aussies. 

Aussies are the juggernaut in RL so their influence is not that surprising, but it’s not helping the game one iota. 

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On 09/01/2020 at 02:29, Harry Stottle said:

With what, more Aussies?

The whole piece is about improving the game with the French public, especially in participation levels, filling the 2 pro french teams with 'foreigners' is a double edged sword, it may bring short term relative success but it does nothing for those French lads who may want to make a career from the game there will always be those from overseas available and utilised by the clubs to fill the places there will be far more opportunities for the French lads who prefer to play the 'handling' game to make a living at union.

AND, it will not only be France affected the UK is going down the same road, the whole RL world is fast becoming an annexation of the game in Australia, it has happened in the International Arena already the teams of Tonga, Fiji, Samoa, Lebanon, Italy, Cook Islands, Greece are all but Australian except for the teams name.

The domestic game in France is in a position that North America will not acheive in the next 50/100 years, emphasis and investment would be better utilized in France building on the foundations that have been in place for near on 90years than across the Atlantic if we really want the game to prosper.

What investment is RL making in Canada?

None. If anything, Canada is pumping money into the UK game by not taking funding.

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1 hour ago, DC77 said:

They should rename the sport Aussie league. 

The Aussie style of play is my biggest bugbear. The wrestling, the low risk five drives, the emphasis in physicality over skill, the grinding, attritional Aussie way of playing.

The 2017 RLWC was England vs Australia, but style wise it was Aussie vs Aussie, making it an 80 minute arm wrestle, and a poor spectacle. The last GB tour was dull too, led by the revered Aussie dullard and his dullard style of play. Not that I’m holding him responsible for everything as the wrestle was brought over to Super League by an Aussie (whose name escapes me) before Bennett appeared over here. Even Aussies are complaining about Brits playing an Aussie style of play. Think the responsibility lies with RL authorities here for allowing an Aussie takeover, and losing the more attractive open running British style.

Filling teams full of Aussies homogenises the game, be it club teams or national teams (via the heritage for the latter). In football, Brazil export thousands of players to clubs around the world...but at least they take with them their attractive technical style of play, which then raises the standard of the local players. Firmino at Liverpool for example is worth the admission fee alone. Aussies in RL are exporting all the unattractive traits from Aussie RL, it’s an infestation. Also, Aussie heritage sides impedes progress in France as the France national team cannot compete with these Aussie teams. People that praise Tonga yet disparage France, it’s nonsense. France trying to develop their own players is infinitely more commendable than a team inheriting a boatload of Aussies. 

Aussies are the juggernaut in RL so their influence is not that surprising, but it’s not helping the game one iota. 

McGuire brought it to Wigan 

It is a very boring style of play 

It comes from the Melbourne storm 

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On 09/01/2020 at 11:24, aj1908 said:

So if your criteria is inability.to produce sufficient players locally.how many English teams do you suggest culling? 

And for the purposes of rugby league in England there are.hundreds of Australian players who are good enough for your league 

I am not referring to individual clubs, it is the town's, districts even the country's, do you honestly believe it is solely down to the professional clubs to produce players? for every kid who picks up a ball at a young age who gravitates through the systems to be given the chance to further their education at a professional club here there are a hundred kids who don't make it and a big number of those who do come from towns and community clubs that have no pro team. So no I don't suggest culling any pro teams.

Agree there are a number of Australians who could play in our league system but don't  for one minute think they are all racehorses who come over here I have seen quite a lot of donkeys also, there are 90+ antipodeans and islanders in the British game far to many in my opinion but we are not producing enough of our own and those teams you so readily champion in virgin areas will only dilute our resources further and necessitate the need for more player's from the Southern Hemisphere, 

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Just now, Harry Stottle said:

I am not referring to individual clubs, it is the town's, districts even the country's, do you honestly believe it is solely down to the professional clubs to produce players? for every kid who picks up a ball at a young age who gravitates through the systems to be given the chance to further their education at a professional club here there are a hundred kids who don't make it and a big number of those who do come from towns and community clubs that have no pro team. So no I don't suggest culling any pro teams.

Agree there are a number of Australians who could play in our league system but don't  for one minute think they are all racehorses who come over here I have seen quite a lot of donkeys also, there are 90+ antipodeans and islanders in the British game far to many in my opinion but we are not producing enough of our own and those teams you so readily champion in virgin areas will only dilute our resources further and necessitate the need for more player's from the Southern Hemisphere, 

logic would imply if you arent producing enough english players you should then have less english teams ?

super league should look at young and up and coming nrl players.  

the kind of players toronto can sign are beyond most super league clubs so they actually can improve the standard of super league

though they could replace a few now they got a few years ago.

 

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1 minute ago, aj1908 said:

logic would imply if you arent producing enough english players you should then have less english teams ?

super league should look at young and up and coming nrl players.  

the kind of players toronto can sign are beyond most super league clubs so they actually can improve the standard of super league

though they could replace a few now they got a few years ago.

 

I dont want us to be reliant on Aussies, as DC said above and you seemingly agree with with your reference to Melbourne Storm it is not the best spectacle, the completion rate error free boring style that Bennett has introduced to our national team is not our way of playing rugby league football.

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9 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I dont want us to be reliant on Aussies, as DC said above and you seemingly agree with with your reference to Melbourne Storm it is not the best spectacle, the completion rate error free boring style that Bennett has introduced to our national team is not our way of playing rugby league football.

dont sign australian coaches then. 

on being reliant on aussie imports its a fact of super league.  whether its toronto or leigh both will rely on imports.

the funny thing is bennett isnt as boring as coach of souths.  when he was at brisbane they played a good style too.

i wouldnt judge that last tour.  i bet when new zealand tour next time they will get smashed.

it is sad how just about everyone in the nrl is trying to become a (poor) clone of the melbourne storm.  just about every team plays the same boring way.  and in attack they run the same block plays.  and the nrl doesnt seem interested in stopping it.

teams get repeat sets on the opposition try line and have no idea how to score.  its like unless one of their plays comes off they dont know what to do.  its so frustrating.

like a simple run around play, which has been around for donkeys years, is a great move on a try line.  nobody does it

 

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44 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

dont sign australian coaches then. 

on being reliant on aussie imports its a fact of super league.  whether its toronto or leigh both will rely on imports.

the funny thing is bennett isnt as boring as coach of souths.  when he was at brisbane they played a good style too.

i wouldnt judge that last tour.  i bet when new zealand tour next time they will get smashed.

it is sad how just about everyone in the nrl is trying to become a (poor) clone of the melbourne storm.  just about every team plays the same boring way.  and in attack they run the same block plays.  and the nrl doesnt seem interested in stopping it.

teams get repeat sets on the opposition try line and have no idea how to score.  its like unless one of their plays comes off they dont know what to do.  its so frustrating.

like a simple run around play, which has been around for donkeys years, is a great move on a try line.  nobody does it

 

If it was my decision I would make your first sentance a primary function, or I would limit all clubs to a max of 3 overseas player's - as in Southern Hemisphere - and if any club wanted to employ the services of a coach from down under tgey would be part of the count. 

In a round about way I think that you are in agreement with both DC and myself aj. You seem quite vociferous in your opinion of where the Aussie style of play is going and you say the NRL doesn't seem interested in reversing it, if people start to vote with their feet and stop going to watch the game because of the boring tactics they will soon change their stance.

I think a simple way to make the game a better product to watch and play would simply be to cut the interchanges to 2 or at a max 3, it would mean those 10 minute behemoths would become an extinct species, more emphasis would be put on lighter men who could do longer minutes the game would speed up, players would tire as the match progressed, the half's or playmakers would be allowed to become more expressive with not being targeted continuously with fresh player's, those wide running forwards that are so prevalent in the modern game would be required to 'help and assist' in midfield so giving more space on the outsides where we can once again see centre on centre and wingman on wingman contests, and just as importantly the playing paddock would become a safer enviroment in which the player's perform in. Do you agree?

 

Edited by Harry Stottle

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4 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If it was my decision I would make your first sentance a primary function, or I would limit all clubs to a max of 3 overseas player's - as in Southern Hemisphere - and if any club wanted to employ the services of a coach from down under tgey would be part of the count. 

In a round about way I think that you are in agreement with both DC and myself aj. You seem quite vociferous in your opinion of where the Aussie style of play is going and you say the NRL doesn't seem interested in reversing it, if people start to vote with their feet and stop going to watch the game because of the boring tactics they will soon change their stance.

I think a simple way to make the game a better product to watch and play would simply be to cut the interchanges to 2 or at a max 3, it would mean those 10 minute behemoths would become an extinct species, more emphasis would be put on lighter men who could do longer minutes the game would speed up, players would tire as the match progressed, the half's or playmakers would be allowed to become more expressive with not being targeted continuously with fresh player's, those wide running forwards that are so prevalent in the modern game would be required to 'help and assist' in midfield so giving more space on the outsides where we can once again see centre on centre and wingman on wingman contests, and just as importantly the playing paddock would become a safer enviroment in which the player's perform in. Do you agree?

 

Yes less interchanges would be a good thing.  I agree strongly 

They looked at it and decided not too 

Its just the mentality of.the coaches 

They are scared to try a different way 

I asked my friend whose a premier league fan and he says different teams have different tactics 

It should.be like that 

Each team should play to their strengths

THe problem is so many nrl coaches have come from Melbourne so their way has taken over 

Just on an English thing.  English teams still need to know how to.grind a game when they need too.  It's like the warriors In the nrl.  They don't grind well so any team knows they can put the pressure on them and they will fold

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12 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

If it was my decision I would make your first sentance a primary function, or I would limit all clubs to a max of 3 overseas player's - as in Southern Hemisphere - and if any club wanted to employ the services of a coach from down under tgey would be part of the count. 

In a round about way I think that you are in agreement with both DC and myself aj. You seem quite vociferous in your opinion of where the Aussie style of play is going and you say the NRL doesn't seem interested in reversing it, if people start to vote with their feet and stop going to watch the game because of the boring tactics they will soon change their stance.

I think a simple way to make the game a better product to watch and play would simply be to cut the interchanges to 2 or at a max 3, it would mean those 10 minute behemoths would become an extinct species, more emphasis would be put on lighter men who could do longer minutes the game would speed up, players would tire as the match progressed, the half's or playmakers would be allowed to become more expressive with not being targeted continuously with fresh player's, those wide running forwards that are so prevalent in the modern game would be required to 'help and assist' in midfield so giving more space on the outsides where we can once again see centre on centre and wingman on wingman contests, and just as importantly the playing paddock would become a safer enviroment in which the player's perform in. Do you agree?

 

https://www.nrl.com/news/2018/11/16/nrl-to-keep-interchange-rule-at-eight-per-team-in-2019/

https://www.nrl.com/news/2019/06/18/why-the-nrl-kept-interchange-at-eight/

2nd link says why

Edited by aj1908

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Super league is not the answer for France the answer is a fully pro domestic comp. so many foreigners are in the dragons due to fear of relegation it holds back French talent. Also the article fails to mention that now rl has no media in France due to Catalan having no tv deal.
 

Rough time’s ahead but it can be turned around. I think France should go to nsw and QLD and hunt for heritage French players recruit them whilst they are young(like 16). Mix them in with domestic players. The harsh truth is that no tier 2 team is competitive without some form of heritage influence.

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22 minutes ago, Themusician_2 said:

Super league is not the answer for France the answer is a fully pro domestic comp. so many foreigners are in the dragons due to fear of relegation it holds back French talent. Also the article fails to mention that now rl has no media in France due to Catalan having no tv deal.
 

Rough time’s ahead but it can be turned around. I think France should go to nsw and QLD and hunt for heritage French players recruit them whilst they are young(like 16). Mix them in with domestic players. The harsh truth is that no tier 2 team is competitive without some form of heritage influence.

I think the only way to get a French professional domestic league is to grow 4 or so clubs in the British system to the point that they can breakaway and form the basis of their own league. 

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46 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think the only way to get a French professional domestic league is to grow 4 or so clubs in the British system to the point that they can breakaway and form the basis of their own league. 

Yep.  Or become part of a conference with Canada 

League was once strong there.  It wouldn't take much for the game to take off again.

Just.ignore paris and focus on the south 

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2 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

Yep.  Or become part of a conference with Canada 

League was once strong there.  It wouldn't take much for the game to take off again.

Just.ignore paris and focus on the south 

I think there is an element of southern focus necessary for a strong core, but a Paris team would legitimise the League in France frankly (its why Union are so desperate to maintain a strong Paris presence even if that means mergers), especially for TV. 

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1 minute ago, Tommygilf said:

I think there is an element of southern focus necessary for a strong core, but a Paris team would legitimise the League in France frankly (its why Union are so desperate to maintain a strong Paris presence even if that means mergers), especially for TV. 

Can't see it working 

Even in the glory days of French rugby league The game was.weak there 

Unless we had an argyle type we don't have the money 

Toulose.marsille Lyon and avignon is where I'd go

League could become massive off them 

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I always find the suggestion that SL act as an incubator for french teams (or any other nation) that grows the sport in that country until they split off and go another way really odd.

It's literally an argument to create something that works, make it successful then destroy it.

 

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Just now, scotchy1 said:

I always find the suggestion that SL act as an incubator for french teams (or any other nation) that grows the sport in that country until they split off and go another way really odd.

It's literally an argument to create something that works, make it successful then destroy it.

 

Spot on 

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If BeIN sport said “Hey, let’s make a league with Catalans, Toulouse, Carcassone, Avignon, London, Newcastle, Belgrade, Valencia, Ottawa, NY, Manchester” would they get enough subscribers?

What if it was Amazon or Sportsflick? 

Anyone willing to suggest some numbers? 

Point is, would it be viable?

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1 minute ago, dealwithit said:

If BeIN sport said “Hey, let’s make a league with Catalans, Toulouse, Carcassone, Avignon, London, Newcastle, Belgrade, Valencia, Ottawa, NY, Manchester” would they get enough subscribers?

What if it was Amazon or Sportsflick? 

Anyone willing to suggest some numbers? 

Point is, would it be viable?

Doubt it 

Those clubs need the strength of English rugby league as the backbone of any competition 

 

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5 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

I always find the suggestion that SL act as an incubator for french teams (or any other nation) that grows the sport in that country until they split off and go another way really odd.

It's literally an argument to create something that works, make it successful then destroy it.

 

From my perspective the argument is to grow the game in both countries (or more) to such a point that they outgrow the single structure that could potentially limit success. Moving forward they would always be interconnected like the continental Football and RU comps are and be a bit more compelling from a personal point of view.

Call it regional conferences if you prefer.

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5 hours ago, dealwithit said:

If BeIN sport said “Hey, let’s make a league with Catalans, Toulouse, Carcassone, Avignon, London, Newcastle, Belgrade, Valencia, Ottawa, NY, Manchester” would they get enough subscribers?

What if it was Amazon or Sportsflick? 

Anyone willing to suggest some numbers? 

Point is, would it be viable?

It depends how much cash BeiN Sport would be willing to stump up ?

And it would have to be a very , very , VERY lot 

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2 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

From my perspective the argument is to grow the game in both countries (or more) to such a point that they outgrow the single structure that could potentially limit success. Moving forward they would always be interconnected like the continental Football and RU comps are and be a bit more compelling from a personal point of view.

Call it regional conferences if you prefer.

We can have whatever structure we like but it seems wierd that we would want to build something with the expectation of destroying it if it is successful 

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