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Catalans push forward for last-gasp TV deal

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Steady on, fellas. 

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8 hours ago, Dave T said:

You'll see my post earlier in this thread addresses how I think we should be wooing overseas broadcasters if there is a payday at the end of it (so far the signs are not good). 

But as things stand, we shouldn't be bent over by the likes of BEIN. If they want us to pay for rights that they have been enjoying for a few years, I'd tell them to go and whistle. If we have to fund broadcasting, we should do that on our terms, and for me that would be going to the biggest platform possible, or a new broadcaster and start that courting process back at first base.

As Kayakman says, you really don't get it do you. RL has no leverage in these negotiations that is where the sport sits currently in the French sporting landscape so like it or not the only way this situation is going to be of any benefit to RL is to give the rights away to a major broadcaster or as you put it 'get bent over' but this time around there needs to be a viable strategy to broaden the appeal of the product and get money for tv rights in around 4-7 years.

Yes the sentiment is right we should be asking for money but the demand isn't there right now so SL needs to think about how they can create that in the future. 

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38 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

As Kayakman says, you really don't get it do you. RL has no leverage in these negotiations that is where the sport sits currently in the French sporting landscape so like it or not the only way this situation is going to be of any benefit to RL is to give the rights away to a major broadcaster or as you put it 'get bent over' but this time around there needs to be a viable strategy to broaden the appeal of the product and get money for tv rights in around 4-7 years.

Yes the sentiment is right we should be asking for money but the demand isn't there right now so SL needs to think about how they can create that in the future. 

Feel free to try and read my posts if you are capable. I suggested giving free rights, but I wouldn't be giving them to a broadcaster who has had their sample and actually used to pay. Them now demanding us to pay them is a no no. 

And you call Elstone a bad negotiator. I suggest it is you who doesn't get it. 

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12 minutes ago, Dave T said:

Feel free to try and read my posts if you are capable. I suggested giving free rights, but I wouldn't be giving them to a broadcaster who has had their sample and actually used to pay. Them now demanding us to pay them is a no no. 

And you call Elstone a bad negotiator. I suggest it is you who doesn't get it. 

It always comes round to the fact that SL has no profile in France. That's the problem not what BEIN supposedly did or didn't do. It's up to them what they want to do, they clearly don't value the product and that's their choice. 

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1 minute ago, The Daddy said:

It always comes round to the fact that SL has no profile in France. That's the problem not what BEIN supposedly did or didn't do. It's up to them what they want to do, they clearly don't value the product and that's their choice. 

And it is our choice whether we pay them for showing our games. 

But SL had no profile last year, or the year before, but now the game has admitted TWP who have signed SBW, Catalans have won a recent WC, there is no reason that the direction of travel should be backwards on this, it is Bein trying it on. As you say, their prerogative, and I have already posted about my views on cultivating value overseas, but you ignored that so I won't type it again. 

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18 minutes ago, Dave T said:

And it is our choice whether we pay them for showing our games. 

But SL had no profile last year, or the year before, but now the game has admitted TWP who have signed SBW, Catalans have won a recent WC, there is no reason that the direction of travel should be backwards on this, it is Bein trying it on. As you say, their prerogative, and I have already posted about my views on cultivating value overseas, but you ignored that so I won't type it again. 

So why are all the other tv stations refusing to pay for t.v. rights? Are they all trying it on too?

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Just now, The Daddy said:

So why are all the other tv stations refusing to pay for t.v. rights? Are they all trying it on too?

You seem to be arguing a point that nobody is making. 

If Sky offer us nowt next time, and neither does anyone else, and we decided to give it for free, I certainly wouldn't be giving it to Sky. They'd be at the back of the queue. Its not a controversial position. 

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I see both sides to this argument.  Ultimately.its up to super league to decide to pay for it or.not.

I think it's a good investment but what i think doesn't matter 

I think losing tv coverage would be  a huge step backwards though 

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6 hours ago, aj1908 said:

I see both sides to this argument.  Ultimately.its up to super league to decide to pay for it or.not.

I think it's a good investment but what i think doesn't matter 

I think losing tv coverage would be  a huge step backwards though 

The thing about giving rights free works in a model like the RU Prem where you are controlling and creating your own broadcasts. If you have main broadcasters paying you for this, you can subsidise other territories no problem, and you can make choices without being held to ransom. 

We should be trying to do this in the next deal as this should help the value of international rights in particular. The difference between us and RU is that they have a bigger worldwide market to make this pay immediately. 

But things like North America deals should be in our control as we already own the content (in this new model), whereas at the moment to serve the territory we have to invest hundreds of thousands for literally no return, that makes the decision more controversial. 

We really need to make this the last time we ever leave negotiating TV deals to individual clubs, it is a nonsense, and we have a new tender in May, it should be covering all this. 

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6 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The thing about giving rights free works in a model like the RU Prem where you are controlling and creating your own broadcasts. If you have main broadcasters paying you for this, you can subsidise other territories no problem, and you can make choices without being held to ransom. 

We should be trying to do this in the next deal as this should help the value of international rights in particular. The difference between us and RU is that they have a bigger worldwide market to make this pay immediately. 

But things like North America deals should be in our control as we already own the content (in this new model), whereas at the moment to serve the territory we have to invest hundreds of thousands for literally no return, that makes the decision more controversial. 

We really need to make this the last time we ever leave negotiating TV deals to individual clubs, it is a nonsense, and we have a new tender in May, it should be covering all this. 

You have no clue whatsoever. You can't get your head around the fact that if SL delivered a better product none of this would be an issue 

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2 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

You have no clue whatsoever. You can't get your head around the fact that if SL delivered a better product none of this would be an issue 

Again, read my previous post on it. There is nothing controversial in my post. 

If you won't read, don't then comment on small bits. 

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22 minutes ago, Dave T said:

The thing about giving rights free works in a model like the RU Prem where you are controlling and creating your own broadcasts. If you have main broadcasters paying you for this, you can subsidise other territories no problem, and you can make choices without being held to ransom. 

We should be trying to do this in the next deal as this should help the value of international rights in particular. The difference between us and RU is that they have a bigger worldwide market to make this pay immediately. 

But things like North America deals should be in our control as we already own the content (in this new model), whereas at the moment to serve the territory we have to invest hundreds of thousands for literally no return, that makes the decision more controversial. 

We really need to make this the last time we ever leave negotiating TV deals to individual clubs, it is a nonsense, and we have a new tender in May, it should be covering all this. 

question for you, if the market value is zero for france or canada, do you think its worth super league covering the costs as a loss leader in the hope it catches on.

i think for example with toronto this free coverage they are doing will help grow the sport and lead to a paying tv later now.

the super league collective does have to work out a strategy to eventually monetize these rights.  from small acorns etc

say with 2 french SL clubs and 2 canadian super league clubs it shouldnt be hard to get at least the costs of their grants covered by TV.  whats the club grand 2 million pounds per club - surely a TV deal for 10 million pounds pa for 4 clubs could be achieved.

all that marketing toronto are getting off eg SBW is worth millions to the sport now.

theres a chance league could take off in a big way in canada to get a good nieche of the market.

and in france the roots have always been there.

if super league goes to 14 teams perhaps toulose might have to accept no grant for a while till the rights materialise.

Edited by aj1908

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17 minutes ago, The Daddy said:

You have no clue whatsoever. You can't get your head around the fact that if SL delivered a better product none of this would be an issue 

but they dont

Les catalans havent been able to get a paying TV deal and theyve been pretty succesful.  whats the next step?

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On 20/01/2020 at 14:22, Dave T said:

I think from where we are right now we should probably focus on three overseas territories that we could do something decent with.

France, Canada/N.A and Aus/NZ. 

In each of these territories there is all sorts we can do to make it more attractive to broadcasters - we can film every game to cater for international rights, we can adjust our scheduling to meet TV requirements, we can add more clubs from those areas, we can stage events there to build our brand (Magic etc) - there is a lot we can do, but what hasn't worked in France so far is sticking one team in and hoping a broadcaster pays us.

Now the answer from a North American broadcaster may be that they are never interested in a league made up of UK teams with 1 or 2 overseas teams in, and that they would only be truly interested with 6 teams - SL may decide that isn't something they can progress. 

But it just feels like there is no strategy at all, and we just do a couple of random things and hope somebody gets the cheque book out. They haven't so far, and are unlikely to do so based on the odd bit of random activity.

 

17 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

question for you, if the market value is zero for france or canada, do you think its worth super league covering the costs as a loss leader in the hope it catches on.

i think for example with toronto this free coverage they are doing will help grow the sport and lead to a paying tv later now.

the super league collective does have to work out a strategy to eventually monetize these rights.  from small acorns etc

say with 2 french SL clubs and 2 canadian super league clubs it shouldnt be hard to get at least the costs of their grants covered by TV.  whats the club grand 2 million pounds per club - surely a TV deal for 10 million pounds pa for 4 clubs could be achieved.

all that marketing toronto are getting off eg SBW is worth millions to the sport now.

theres a chance league could take off in a big way in canada to get a good nieche of the market.

and in france the roots have always been there.

if super league goes to 14 teams perhaps toulose might have to accept no grant for a while till the rights materialise.

I've quoted my post from 3 days ago on this thread which I think covers your points. 

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On 21/01/2020 at 08:18, barnyia said:

How much would sky pay to show handball if Manchester put a team in the French or euro league, would you be interested in watching le Mans v Lille play handball if you wasn't a massive handball fan, or had never seen handball before. 

 

That's the situation in France for rl. 

 

Just put this back up so people can stop arguing and see the real level of rl in France, 

Its a little regional game with a lot of haters being held together by a pro team, a semi pro team and  an amateur comp with 3 divisions, 

It's being run and  maintained mainly by people giving their time for free, with a rapidly aging fan base that's struggling to regenerate except in perpignan. 

There's a good chance that l'équipe tv have been  advised  not to enter into negotiations from the rugby union. 

 

Edited by barnyia
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8 minutes ago, barnyia said:

Just put this back up so people can stop arguing and see the real level of rl in France, 

Its a little regional game with a lot of haters being held together by a pro team, a semi pro team and  an amateur comp with 3 divisions, 

It's being run and  maintained mainly by people giving their time for free, with a rapidly aging fan base that's struggling to regenerate except in perpignan. 

There's a good chance that l'équipe tv have been  advised  not to enter into negotiations from the rugby union. 

 

Yes, I made a similar point about Lacrosse and Manchester having a team in a Canadian league. We wouldn't see multi-million pound deals on Sky Sports. 

The uncomfortable question this then raises is will these territories ever be viable commercially for SL or will we always be investing for the future? 

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12 minutes ago, barnyia said:

Just put this back up so people can stop arguing and see the real level of rl in France, 

Its a little regional game with a lot of haters being held together by a pro team, a semi pro team and  an amateur comp with 3 divisions, 

It's being run and  maintained mainly by people giving their time for free, with a rapidly aging fan base that's struggling to regenerate except in perpignan. 

There's a good chance that l'équipe tv have been  advised  not to enter into negotiations from the rugby union. 

 

given the regenration in peripgnan do you see other areas recovering as well if they got super league teams or is that market too small for more SL teams.

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Just now, Dave T said:

Yes, I made a similar point about Lacrosse and Manchester having a team in a Canadian league. We wouldn't see multi-million pound deals on Sky Sports. 

The uncomfortable question this then raises is will these territories ever be viable commercially for SL or will we always be investing for the future? 

I think its quite clear that 2 teams from the same country are a must to make the league more attractive to TV companies. One in Perpignan will certainly not be attractive enough in France, Catalans have shown that. Toronto are slightly different being a major city, and will probably attract some money in their own right. However the big money will probably only really be seen with more Canadian teams and the growth of the game in Canada.

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1 minute ago, Damien said:

I think its quite clear that 2 teams from the same country are a must to make the league more attractive to TV companies. One in Perpignan will certainly not be attractive enough in France, Catalans have shown that. Toronto are slightly different being a major city, and will probably attract some money in their own right. However the big money will probably only really be seen with more Canadian teams and the growth of the game in Canada.

if the tv money starts coming in its easier to add more canadian or french teams into sl.

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Just now, Damien said:

I think its quite clear that 2 teams from the same country are a must to make the league more attractive to TV companies. One in Perpignan will certainly not be attractive enough in France, Catalans have shown that. Toronto are slightly different being a major city, and will probably attract some money in their own right. However the big money will probably only really be seen with more Canadian teams and the growth of the game in Canada.

I agree, however that brings us back to how many, and who pays?

This is where self-funding makes sense. Otherwise you quickly get to a point where SL could be investing £50m over 5 years and then at the end Bein and CBC's best offer is that they will show our games if we pay. The costs roll up very quickly. 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

I agree, however that brings us back to how many, and who pays?

This is where self-funding makes sense. Otherwise you quickly get to a point where SL could be investing £50m over 5 years and then at the end Bein and CBC's best offer is that they will show our games if we pay. The costs roll up very quickly. 

it might have to be the short term solution is making toronto and toulose pay their own way for now.  which is disappointing

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1 minute ago, aj1908 said:

if the tv money starts coming in its easier to add more canadian or french teams into sl.

Chicken and egg, that's the challenge. As TWP and Catalans are showing, you don't just pick up tv deals in under-developed territories, no matter how aggressive people's soundbites are. 

If the game can get private investment to fund these new clubs it is a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. That is what is happening with TWP but many are finding that unpalatable. 

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1 minute ago, Dave T said:

Chicken and egg, that's the challenge. As TWP and Catalans are showing, you don't just pick up tv deals in under-developed territories, no matter how aggressive people's soundbites are. 

If the game can get private investment to fund these new clubs it is a no brainer as far as I'm concerned. That is what is happening with TWP but many are finding that unpalatable. 

im seeing that side of it now.  its better them being in super league than not.

if toulose get promoted it will be funny if they deny them money after they pay les catalans.  so many cans of worms.

as a fan of toronto and toulose id be happy they were in super league and ringfenced from relegation but got no tv money either.

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It's depressing that rugby union still suppressing code in France. This alignment with stade toulusain and to xiii may help somehow. 

The reality is rugby league is a shadow of what it was in 1950s and 60s where it had influence in Bordeaux, Marseille, paris and Lyon.  These days it's a village and regional city sport where reality only perpnignan and Toulouse it has some influence. It seems s minority sport which would struggle to be in top 20 in France. 

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5 minutes ago, winnyason said:

It's depressing that rugby union still suppressing code in France. This alignment with stade toulusain and to xiii may help somehow. 

The reality is rugby league is a shadow of what it was in 1950s and 60s where it had influence in Bordeaux, Marseille, paris and Lyon.  These days it's a village and regional city sport where reality only perpnignan and Toulouse it has some influence. It seems s minority sport which would struggle to be in top 20 in France. 

Not just Perpignan and Toulouse. It has a strong presence in Avignon

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