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Catalans push forward for last-gasp TV deal

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Catalans haven’t given up hope of a last-minute television deal to ensure Super League games are broadcast live from Perpignan in 2020. Club chiefs are...

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Oh what Robert Elstone wrought from thinking that the tarted-up version of the old RFL Championship which has masqueraded as a Super League since 1996 was worth more from a French broadcaster than the 70,000 € which BeIN was reportedly paying before.

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4 hours ago, Big Picture said:

Oh what Robert Elstone wrought from thinking that the tarted-up version of the old RFL Championship which has masqueraded as a Super League since 1996 was worth more from a French broadcaster than the 70,000 € which BeIN was reportedly paying before.

Doesn't bode well for his tenure does it

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I agree with Elstone here. No way should the RFL accept such a paltry offer. It devalues the future rights. If someone wants them, they need to pay what they're worth. If no one wants them, we'll just have to wait the long term. 

Rugby league has a history of devaluing itself. The current beIN offer is an insult. The fact Catalans have seen a rise in season ticket sales, and are enquiring whether it's too do with lack of TV presence is forcing them to come and watch, shows that they don't think it's too much of a deal (especially enough to have to pay themselves to get broadcast).

Stick to your guns. Play hardball here for sure.

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1 minute ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I agree with Elstone here. No way should the RFL accept such a paltry offer. It devalues the future rights. If someone wants them, they need to pay what they're worth. If no one wants them, we'll just have to wait the long term. 

Rugby league has a history of devaluing itself. The current beIN offer is an insult. The fact Catalans have seen a rise in season ticket sales, and are enquiring whether it's too do with lack of TV presence is forcing them to come and watch, shows that they don't think it's too much of a deal (especially enough to have to pay themselves to get broadcast).

Stick to your guns. Play hardball here for sure.

They accepted it.before for years 

And when he said no nobody stepped forward

There is little interest in them 

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Eurosport France is the best option for me since it is available where I live but I doubt they will pay a lot for rugby league. 

Vià as a regional channel will pay even less. 

Is L'Équipe TV option dead?

I assume RMC, Canal+ have no interest?

 

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2 hours ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

I agree with Elstone here. No way should the RFL accept such a paltry offer. It devalues the future rights. If someone wants them, they need to pay what they're worth. If no one wants them, we'll just have to wait the long term. 

Rugby league has a history of devaluing itself. The current beIN offer is an insult. The fact Catalans have seen a rise in season ticket sales, and are enquiring whether it's too do with lack of TV presence is forcing them to come and watch, shows that they don't think it's too much of a deal (especially enough to have to pay themselves to get broadcast).

Stick to your guns. Play hardball here for sure.

To a point.

A broadcast presence is necessary but we dont have to accept a paltry offer

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36 minutes ago, scotchy1 said:

To a point.

A broadcast presence is necessary but we dont have to accept a paltry offer

it was paltry last time.  

nobody wanted to pay more for it now

TV exposure is better than nothing.

 

Edited by aj1908

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The deal bein offered was for the catalans to pay bein to film and show the game. If somebody does it for free it's an improvement on the last bein offer! 

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7 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

it was paltry last time.  

nobody wanted to pay more for it now

TV exposure is better than nothing.

 

If you keep giving it free though, nobody will ever pay. 

If we are paying for broadcasts, I'd want it to be on free to air or something rather than doing the job for Bein.

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2 minutes ago, Dave T said:

If you keep giving it free though, nobody will ever pay. 

If we are paying for broadcasts, I'd want it to be on free to air or something rather than doing the job for Bein.

eventually of course.

but right now beggers cant be choosers either.  it looks like the market in france doesnt want to pay much for les catalans games.

maybe elstone needs to talk to broadcasters to see if there is actually apetite for toulose or if its not going to do anything for tv rights.

like the nrl has been told broadcasters want a brisbane team not so much perth so they seem to be prioritising brisbane

Edited by aj1908

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Just now, aj1908 said:

eventually of course.

but right now beggers cant be choosers either.  it looks like the market in france doesnt want to pay much for les catalans games.

maybe elstone needs to talk to broadcasters to see if there is actually apetite for toulose or if its not going to do anything for tv rights.

like the nrl has been told broadcasters want a brisbane team not so much perth so they seem to be prioritising brisbane

But in reality, the Bein offer is a cost to the game. Are the benefits worth investing that quarter of a million quid? 

Or do we hold our nerve and do something different? 

As things stand, conversations are still ongoing anyway, so hopefully we will get some sort of deal. 

The problem with the saying 'beggars can't be choosers' is that we could still be saying it in another 5 years. 

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56 minutes ago, Dave T said:

But in reality, the Bein offer is a cost to the game. Are the benefits worth investing that quarter of a million quid? 

Or do we hold our nerve and do something different? 

As things stand, conversations are still ongoing anyway, so hopefully we will get some sort of deal. 

The problem with the saying 'beggars can't be choosers' is that we could still be saying it in another 5 years. 

i thought they pay 70k euro a year.  is 250k the production costs as covered by super league.

if so then thats a more difficult question isnt it.

the big question is toulouse - do they give critical mass for a decent TV deal (after a period of time) or is there no potential.

it is an issue les catalans have been around and succesful for so long and a decent deal isnt there.  perhaps the same will be true for toronto too.

which obiously limits expansion unless its self funded

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10 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

i thought they pay 70k euro a year.  is 250k the production costs as covered by super league.

if so then thats a more difficult question isnt it.

the big question is toulouse - do they give critical mass for a decent TV deal (after a period of time) or is there no potential.

it is an issue les catalans have been around and succesful for so long and a decent deal isnt there.  perhaps the same will be true for toronto too.

which obiously limits expansion unless its self funded

The offer this time was that we pay for the costs and they will be good enough to show it. Like the TWP model basically. 

This is my biggest concern with the overseas markets.

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1 hour ago, Dave T said:

The offer this time was that we pay for the costs and they will be good enough to show it. Like the TWP model basically. 

This is my biggest concern with the overseas markets.

you would hope that one day it would take off on TV overseas.  

even a small deal like 10 million pounds pa would more than cover say a toronto or les catalans and put money back in the game

i honestly believe if wolfpack dont fold they will help over the longer term with the commercial aspect of super league.

they are a potential game changer.  and if they fail they cost your game nothing.  its a good risk vs reward for the english game.

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3 minutes ago, aj1908 said:

you would hope that one day it would take off on TV overseas.  

even a small deal like 10 million pounds pa would more than cover say a toronto or les catalans and put money back in the game

i honestly believe if wolfpack dont fold they will help over the longer term with the commercial aspect of super league.

they are a potential game changer.  and if they fail they cost your game nothing.  its a good risk vs reward for the english game.

I think from where we are right now we should probably focus on three overseas territories that we could do something decent with.

France, Canada/N.A and Aus/NZ. 

In each of these territories there is all sorts we can do to make it more attractive to broadcasters - we can film every game to cater for international rights, we can adjust our scheduling to meet TV requirements, we can add more clubs from those areas, we can stage events there to build our brand (Magic etc) - there is a lot we can do, but what hasn't worked in France so far is sticking one team in and hoping a broadcaster pays us.

Now the answer from a North American broadcaster may be that they are never interested in a league made up of UK teams with 1 or 2 overseas teams in, and that they would only be truly interested with 6 teams - SL may decide that isn't something they can progress. 

But it just feels like there is no strategy at all, and we just do a couple of random things and hope somebody gets the cheque book out. They haven't so far, and are unlikely to do so based on the odd bit of random activity.

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2 hours ago, Dave T said:

I think from where we are right now we should probably focus on three overseas territories that we could do something decent with.

France, Canada/N.A and Aus/NZ. 

In each of these territories there is all sorts we can do to make it more attractive to broadcasters - we can film every game to cater for international rights, we can adjust our scheduling to meet TV requirements, we can add more clubs from those areas, we can stage events there to build our brand (Magic etc) - there is a lot we can do, but what hasn't worked in France so far is sticking one team in and hoping a broadcaster pays us.

Now the answer from a North American broadcaster may be that they are never interested in a league made up of UK teams with 1 or 2 overseas teams in, and that they would only be truly interested with 6 teams - SL may decide that isn't something they can progress. 

But it just feels like there is no strategy at all, and we just do a couple of random things and hope somebody gets the cheque book out. They haven't so far, and are unlikely to do so based on the odd bit of random activity.

More than likely there is no strategy at all and they've been trying to work out just how these expansion teams in other countries fit in and in Toronto's case they're probably having to learn as they go because it's such a different situation than they've ever had before.  We do know that last year they talked of a limit of three non-British clubs in SL which presumably means that if Toulouse makes it and Catalans and Toronto both stay up, New York and Ottawa have to wait for one of those three to be relegated.

How broadcasters in France and over here would assess that isn't known exactly, but chances are that will reduce the amount which any of them are willing to pay for rights.

 

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3 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

More than likely there is no strategy at all and they've been trying to work out just how these expansion teams in other countries fit in and in Toronto's case they're probably having to learn as they go because it's such a different situation than they've ever had before.  We do know that last year they talked of a limit of three non-British clubs in SL which presumably means that if Toulouse makes it and Catalans and Toronto both stay up, New York and Ottawa have to wait for one of those three to be relegated.

How broadcasters in France and over here would assess that isn't known exactly, but chances are that will reduce the amount which any of them are willing to pay for rights.

 

I know they were looking at the number of UK based teams, but hadn't seen the mention of three overseas clubs. 

 

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2 hours ago, Dave T said:

In each of these territories there is all sorts we can do to make it more attractive to broadcasters - we can film every game to cater for international rights, we can adjust our scheduling to meet TV requirements, we can add more clubs from those areas, we can stage events there to build our brand (Magic etc) - there is a lot we can do, but what hasn't worked in France so far is sticking one team in and hoping a broadcaster pays us.

I think this is the key issue. We're going into new markets or markets where we have limited cut-through with the audience, asking broadcasters to take a bit of a punt and, unsuprisingly, they aren't enthusiastic. 

SLE has to make the product easy to buy. Not just for broadcasters, but for anyone. If it can create an international feed (in the same way that PRO14 Rugby does for example), prove the concept and appetite for the content amongst the types of audiences that broadcasters want and fit that to broadcast demands, then the product is easy to buy.

At the moment, we're offering broadcasters very little value - that is very much Elstone's remit. 

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Bein want to be in a win win situation now, as they where à few years ago and how orange TV was in the beginning, fans subscribing for 15 euros a month and the club paying a fortune per  game for production costs. 

Edited by barnyia

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26 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:

I think this is the key issue. We're going into new markets or markets where we have limited cut-through with the audience, asking broadcasters to take a bit of a punt and, unsuprisingly, they aren't enthusiastic. 

SLE has to make the product easy to buy. Not just for broadcasters, but for anyone. If it can create an international feed (in the same way that PRO14 Rugby does for example), prove the concept and appetite for the content amongst the types of audiences that broadcasters want and fit that to broadcast demands, then the product is easy to buy.

At the moment, we're offering broadcasters very little value - that is very much Elstone's remit. 

I agree with a lot of this. There is no real product for people outside the uk. Half of les Catalans games on a year by year basis is nothing. You need all their games to even have the basis of a product. Toronto the same. And you need to be looking to build value around that. Not just extract that which exists today. 

 

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5 hours ago, scotchy1 said:

And you need to be looking to build value around that. Not just extract that which exists today. 

 

Rugby League thinking in a nutshell. 

The justification for loop fixtures is that the clubs need to get more value out of (already under-paid) players and an existing fan base. There's no discussion about how we add value to the product to grow the fan base. 

The whole justification for a bigger TV deal seems to be "because we want it", with little discussion (publicly at least) about what we can offer a broadcaster. 

Everything seems to be about extracting as much value as we can until the teet runs dry. Where is the talk about how we actually create something above and beyond what we already offer?

Edited by whatmichaelsays
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