WHAT IF ALL / SOME OF THE MERGERS HAD GONE AHEAD IN 95

[headtackle]

18 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

It wouldn't involve Barrow,so in reality it would involve Workington & Whitehaven,2 clubs who haven't got a pot to p##s in.

Agreed logically putting a team there would give it the best chance 

cant see Whitehaven or Workington wanting a merger. 
 

would need to be a new stand alone club maybe playing games at both existing grounds if they meet sl standards

With creative fixture planning a core of fans would watch the sl team while maintaining existing loyalties.  The sl team would bring big name players and games to a region long starved of it and would have the potential to attract a new younger audience who prefer to watch sport at the top level

 

[Davo5]

10 minutes ago, headtackle said:

Agreed logically putting a team there would give it the best chance 

cant see Whitehaven or Workington wanting a merger. 
 

would need to be a new stand alone club maybe playing games at both existing grounds if they meet sl standards

With creative fixture planning a core of fans would watch the sl team while maintaining existing loyalties.  The sl team would bring big name players and games to a region long starved of it and would have the potential to attract a new younger audience who prefer to watch sport at the top level

 

Hopes of a West Cumbrian Superleague team are well gone,at best you'd get a top half Championship team,we don't have the stadium,funds or sponsorship opportunities to support a Superleague team and at present any top talent are heads down the M6 or gain well paid employment in the nuclear industry and are content to stay amateur or play semi-pro.

[Davo5]

6 hours ago, dkw said:

Not a chance that would have worked, theres almost no way that would have kept the hardcore RL fans interested let alone entice anyone else in. 6 games each season per ground at most, some fans would travel between Workington and Whitehaven obviously but I doubt it would be big numbers. The complete loss of their own clubs would drive quite a few away from the sport. It would have been ridiculous.

Plenty of non Town fans,including myself attended games at Derwent Park the last time Town were in the top flight.

Haven't most of those fans been driven away by the state of the game up here any ways and the relative few who remain spend most of the time squabbling with each other and success is measured by which club finishes higher than the other.

[dkw]

2 minutes ago, Davo5 said:

Plenty of non Town fans,including myself attended games at Derwent Park the last time Town were in the top flight.

Haven't most of those fans been driven away by the state of the game up here any ways and the relative few who remain spend most of the time squabbling with each other and success is measured by which club finishes higher than the other.

Can you see fans being happy to see the games moved around the 3 grounds as described? How will anyone get a feel of "my team" from that? Its a ridiculous idea.

[Davo5]

1 minute ago, dkw said:

Can you see fans being happy to see the games moved around the 3 grounds as described? How will anyone get a feel of "my team" from that? Its a ridiculous idea.

As Ive stated you couldn't include Barrow and the ones who wouldn't feel it was "my" team are probably the ones who turned out 25 yrs ago only much older and a lot fewer.

The game up here missed its chance for top class rugby back then with the knock on effect that the whole sport at every level in Cumbria has declined dramatically with kids growing up having nothing locally to inspire them.

[dkw]

1 minute ago, Davo5 said:

As Ive stated you couldn't include Barrow and the ones who wouldn't feel it was "my" team are probably the ones who turned out 25 yrs ago only much older and a lot fewer.

The game up here missed its chance for top class rugby back then with the knock on effect that the whole sport at every level in Cumbria has declined dramatically with kids growing up having nothing locally to inspire them.

I agree with all of that, and the only way I can see a Cumbria SL team is if it is completely separate from all the current sides, no merger will work.

[Tommygilf]

17 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

Yes, quite probably. 

Although it's interesting that in almost all the examples, one team has emerged through market forces over the years to be the dominant one, possibly achieving the effect of the merger without killing off the smaller club entirely. That probably the better outcome. 

They should have, presuming that mergers were intended to occur on the basis of no relegation, opened for applications for the proposed merger areas clubs (Calder, South Yorks, Cumbria, Eastern/Greater Manchester spring to mind) where the infrastructure of the game was "heritage rich" but was particularly "cash poor". Pick the club with the best application and fund that to SL standard. 

Is it fair? it certainly has limitations! But it is the logical price of rejecting mergers if the closed shop financially strong club game is your priority. As you point out that would have encouraged a clutch of "stronger clubs", rather than the situation we have with Wakefield, Cas and Fev or Sheffield and Donny or Workington and Whitehaven all teetering at relatively similar levels. The scenarios where maybe you could argue that has happened is GM where Oldham, Rochdale and Swinton are well below Salford - and that's not saying much, so I wouldn't call that a success - and Cheshire where Warrington are undoubtedly the current dominant force but that's not to say Widnes weren't miles off.

It's not necessarily my preference, my preference would be for more competition driving higher standards and clubs reaching "natural levels". Yet we've seen by the response to expansion teams from these shores and abroad that its often unwelcome. Even relative "heartland growth", such as Manchester Rangers, is blocked for reasons no-one can actually work out.

The key question is how to overcome the protectionism which plagues the chances of the games expansion.

[Spike]

On 13/04/2020 at 15:17, Man of Kent said:

I appreciate it takes a leap of faith to imagine Cumbrians would get behind a united county side but you feel if it’s going to work anywhere it would be there given it’s ‘otherness’.

It wouldn't work in Cumbria, I for one know lots of existing town fans that wouldn't go any where near a merged side, I believe the hatred between workingtom and whitehaven is another reason why it wouldn't work

[dkw]

12 hours ago, Spike said:

It wouldn't work in Cumbria, I for one know lots of existing town fans that wouldn't go any where near a merged side, I believe the hatred between workingtom and whitehaven is another reason why it wouldn't work

I dont think thats as true as it used to be, both clubs now only have a small hardcore following that wouldnt have much impact on attendances to a merged side. If anything theres a good chance a lot of the ex fans would return, they would hugely outnumber whats left.

 

[sentoffagain2]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

Gateshead/Hull didnt have a combined name.. they were simply "Hull FC". Gateshead were paid 1.25m by Super League Europe to allow it to happen. It was a takeover plain and simple. 

Shuddersfield.. sheffield were paid 1m to "merge".. the games never happened in sheffield and the name didnt last the season.. 

so no i wouldnt call either a merger, they were a takeover and nothing like what was suggested in 1995 nor would they be anything like what a merger should be if ever the idea was resurrected. IMHO people use them as examples and it is thoroughly misleading as it was just a "palatable way" to get rid of 2 poor teams that were losing money hand over fist, their debts were paid off and the owners also were given a bit of a golden goodbye.. whilst also keeping 2 old established clubs, that were also struggling, afloat.

I just dont see that they are a good example to use in these conversations. 

 

You might say Huddersfield and Hull FC got into Super League through the back door.

[RP London]

42 minutes ago, sentoffagain2 said:

You might say Huddersfield and Hull FC got into Super League through the back door.

if not, then stayed in through a loophole (2.25m worth of loophole!)